Author Topic: Ryan Tedder. Again.  (Read 2000 times)

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Offline Tortuga

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2019, 03:06:34 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

Offline singnomore

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2019, 05:04:09 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

I think they are way guilty of overthinking it now. What made them relevant was they didn’t really know quite what they were doing. Now - they are seasoned (and dare I say snobbish) about their music. It bugs me when Bono cringes at vocals that were part of my youth. That’s what made them relevant then - they didn’t care too much and did their own thing.

Offline u2live

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2019, 06:33:52 AM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

I think they are way guilty of overthinking it now. What made them relevant was they didn’t really know quite what they were doing. Now - they are seasoned (and dare I say snobbish) about their music. It bugs me when Bono cringes at vocals that were part of my youth. That’s what made them relevant then - they didn’t care too much and did their own thing.



Having a hit song today doesn't really say much in terms of integrity.  If they are making music that truly means something to them then I applaud them but it's not coming across that way for me anyway.  The optics show a band trying too hard to be relevant whatever that means for them but from where I'm sitting it's making them look more throw away then ever. 

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2019, 01:35:16 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

Yes, I think the way we are using "relevance" in this context is shorthand for "cultural relevance," and the culture referenced by this would be mass culture.

What specifically do you see as having been dumbed down?

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2019, 01:44:12 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

I think they are way guilty of overthinking it now. What made them relevant was they didn’t really know quite what they were doing. Now - they are seasoned (and dare I say snobbish) about their music. It bugs me when Bono cringes at vocals that were part of my youth. That’s what made them relevant then - they didn’t care too much and did their own thing.

I think you're right that they started seeing how their craft was done and then started consciously doing it, whereas before it was intuition and dumb luck.

I'm not sure what you meant about Bono cringeing at vocals - you mean his own? He shamefully told Ellen he thought he sounded like a girl. That doesn't sound remotely like snobbery to me. That sounds like the shame of a man whose father was determined not to be proud of him, and who made an effort to take him down a notch at any opportunity.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2019, 02:04:48 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

Yes, I think the way we are using "relevance" in this context is shorthand for "cultural relevance," and the culture referenced by this would be mass culture.

What specifically do you see as having been dumbed down?

First, very literal lyrics that are not crafted to have multiple meanings depending on who you are or where you are in life.  This strips the music of its depth.  Most of SOI/SOE are like this.  Its easier to explain by pointing out the exceptions:  SLABT, Troubles, Crystal Ballroom...not much from SOE....maybe Landlady and LIAWHL.

Second, music that is easy to find catchy on first listen (not at all challenging) and becomes boring very quickly.  It’s easily accessible because it uses tried and true musical cliches that are very familiar to our ears.  That’s great for radio but it leaves me flat after two or three listens I’m skipping...next track...next track.

When they were young they had the advantage of not being able to play other people’s music which forced them to be original.  Now they’ve learned a lot, plus they bring in hitmaker producers instead of ones focused on creating something that is more art than craft.  Its just a completely different thing they are trying to do.  They are capable of being artists, but they prefer to be pop stars.

Offline singnomore

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2019, 09:02:11 PM »
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I like that idea; I hope he gets to that place.

People look for different things in success - power, affirmation of self worth, etc. I think Bono is looking for the adoration of many people. Therefore, while he loves the money in the bank, it's not enough, and while he would love critical acclaimation, it's not the same as the screaming hordes of Zoo TV. Relevance is the key to that level of adoration. But that is in the past and will stay there, and he'll either have to adjust - or we'll have to watch him keep trying to cling to it.

I think what you you’re saying is that relevance is really just a code word for ‘mainstream mass popularity’.  If so, I think you’re right. 

‘Relevance’ sounds less vain but you can be highly relevant to an audience without having mass mainstream popularity.  I find most mainstream pop music to be fairly irrelevant to most things that matter in this world.  The other irony is that they achieved mass global success by NOT sounding like mainstream popular music.  Now for some reason, after having the channel power and fame to do things on their own terms, they think they need to dumb it down.

I think they are way guilty of overthinking it now. What made them relevant was they didn’t really know quite what they were doing. Now - they are seasoned (and dare I say snobbish) about their music. It bugs me when Bono cringes at vocals that were part of my youth. That’s what made them relevant then - they didn’t care too much and did their own thing.

I think you're right that they started seeing how their craft was done and then started consciously doing it, whereas before it was intuition and dumb luck.

I'm not sure what you meant about Bono cringeing at vocals - you mean his own? He shamefully told Ellen he thought he sounded like a girl. That doesn't sound remotely like snobbery to me. That sounds like the shame of a man whose father was determined not to be proud of him, and who made an effort to take him down a notch at any opportunity.

Bono has talked about songs like Red Hill where he is open about not liking the original vocal. I imagine he has come to that conclusion after years of learning his craft. If I use that example versus how I relate to that song growing up and hearing it for the first time when it came it I do get irked. For me the vocal on the song is a centrepiece to the Joshua Tree and sums up why that album is great. The Ellen piece I can’t comment on but I have no doubt you are right around some of the dynamics going on with him personally.

Offline laoghaire

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2019, 01:37:43 PM »
That Red Hill vocal is one of the highlights of his career.

Offline singnomore

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2019, 02:35:37 PM »
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That Red Hill vocal is one of the highlights of his career.

Agree!

Offline fresno dave

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2019, 08:44:14 PM »
Teams of producers that could do U2 justice, and spur creativity
Here's my list.  Post yours.  Dream big..

Elijah Hewson/Bill Nelson
Trent Reznor/Flood
Mike Peters/Bill Bruford
 Lanois/T Bone Burnett
 Charlie Peacock/Rick Rubin
Tony Levin/Lydia Ainsworth
Andy Prickett,/Butch Vigg
Glen Hansard/Burton Cummings
Jon Foreman/Ty Tabor
Aaron Weiss/Brian Wilson
Rick Rubin/Eno
David Byrne/Patti Smith
Nellie Hooper/Andy Barlow
Todd Rundgren/Chris Thomas
Quincy Jones/Steve Lillywhite
Thom Powers/Nigel Godrich
Iggy Pop/Ryan Tedder
Florence Welch/Tony Visconti
Jacknife Lee /David Crowder
Neil Young/David Gilmour
Michael Knott/Kevin Max
Robert Fripp/Steve Hindalong
Edge/Steve Taylor
Howard Benson/Jim Kerr
Bill Nelson/Declan Gaffney
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 09:05:00 PM by fresno dave »

Offline DPardue

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2019, 07:12:15 AM »
A Rick Rubin/Eno tandem is an intriguing possibility.  I am unsure if they could effectively coexist for months on end in the booth, but I do think it could yield some darn interesting results.

Offline Tortuga

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Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2019, 07:38:56 AM »
I’m a big Switchfoot fan but I don’t think Jon Foreman or Charlie Peacock would necessarily be a good match for U2.  As U2 has gravitated more (culturally speaking) to the contemporary Christian world, it seems to have doubled down on Bono’s own worst tendency to at times lean too much to the literal and the obvious.  Lines like “I’m a long long way from your hill on calvary” make it easy to include a U2 song in a worship service but fall below U2’s best in song craft.    I’ve seen U2 come closer and closer to merging with that culture since ATYCLB.

The relationship with Tedder (who is a Tulsa born and raised ORU graduate steeped in that culture) is evidence of this trend.  (Coincidence that SOE opened in Tulsa?)

I have nothing against the faith, per se.  I just think that culture values more direct and literal lyrics and shuns ambiguity...and when U2 leans that way their art is a whole lot less interesting.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 07:43:54 AM by Tortuga »

Offline shineinthesummernight

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2019, 04:07:51 PM »
Most of the lyrics aren't that obvious.  I'm thinking for example of Every Breaking Wave--lots of metaphors, can be interpreted a multitude of ways.  If U2 wants to throw an occasional reference in to Calvary or Jesus or whatever, that's good by me.

Offline Tortuga

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Re: Ryan Tedder. Again.
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2019, 11:21:35 PM »
There has always been a mix.  And there is always room on an album for some straightforward lyrics. You mention EBW.  It’s a song I happen to like and the lyrics are clever in terms of metaphor but its still a fairly literal song.  Compare it to songs like Elvis Presley and America or Promenade or MOS or Unknown Caller.


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