Author Topic: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?  (Read 2555 times)

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Offline Nagrom99

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What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« on: March 30, 2009, 05:05:05 PM »
The demand for tickets would be unlike anything anyone has ever seen before.  You have to believe they could probably do another show in some of the biggest markets.  It would be interesting to see how the economy has hurt sales....it's hard to evaluate, but it must be hurting the tour a bit?  And it's beating all sorts of records?  Interesting.



Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 05:07:42 PM »
hard to say.

the fact that there are so few shows helps them sell out quicker.

I can imagine for example a lot of bay area residents trekking up to vancouver or down to socal


Offline sneaky neil

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 06:16:22 PM »
Or you could ask, what if we were actually in the worst economic climate since 1930, then what.

We will never know what the demand would be like during boom times.

Offline JasontheJedi

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 06:44:01 PM »
The last time U2 toured was a boom time.

Offline suppers ready

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 07:23:20 PM »
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The demand for tickets would be unlike anything anyone has ever seen before.  You have to believe they could probably do another show in some of the biggest markets.  It would be interesting to see how the economy has hurt sales....it's hard to evaluate, but it must be hurting the tour a bit?  And it's beating all sorts of records?  Interesting.

until we see sales in smaller markets, we won't know what's going on.  There was never any doubt that they would sell out at least 2 shows in each of the markets that went today.  I suspect Boston could easily sell out 3 shows....probably Chicago and NJ too.

The other test is how much scalper tickets go for.  Anyone that doesn't think that scalpers bought lots of Fan club tickets is nuts.  it seems like these shows were almost sold out before they went on sale.  I got through very quickly this morning and best available was upper deck (not that I was buying...just wanted to know what it was left).

IMO, Tampa and Atlanta are a better barometers.

Offline vickidvm

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 08:09:29 PM »
They're already breaking ticket sales records in many cities.  I'd have to say they're doing pretty well.  The number of shows is less but probably the total number of tickets is similar since the last tour was mostly arenas. 

Offline suppers ready

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2009, 10:40:25 PM »
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They're already breaking ticket sales records in many cities.  I'd have to say they're doing pretty well.  The number of shows is less but probably the total number of tickets is similar since the last tour was mostly arenas. 

The only shows that have gone on sale are in major markets.  They played 11 shows in NY/NJ last tour.  Add in Hartford, and you're at 12.  They're not playing Philly this year, so you might as well add the 4 philly shows too.

Selling out 2 shows in Jersey, Chicago and Boston is nothing nothing and it's not breaking attendance levels from the last tour in any of those cities.  They will likely make more money, because the average ticket price is much higher (especially once you figure in service charges which, according to PJ, bands typically get a piece of).

I'll be very interested to see what happens in places like Atlanta, Tampa, Dallas, and Houston.  I'm sure they won't sell out Dallas.  If Norman happens, that one will be interesting as well.

Offline in_eden

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 08:30:07 AM »
We'll see what happens today when a lot of the mid-sized markets go on sale.

However, in stadium shows, what is success?
I was looking back at the Joshua Tree tour... and not every date was a sell out on the stadium leg. In Cleveland, for instance, they drew 59,000... in a stadium that held 87,000.
Or on Popmart, Pittsburgh was about 45,000 of 62,000 possible...
BUT that still would have been 3 arena shows.

So if U2 are playing to anything over 50,000 it's great.
Having so many instant sell outs, the tour is going to go fine.
As the tour progresses, tickets will continue to sell...
They'll no doubt be setting records again.
I think they've already more concert tickets than copies of No Line On The Horizon.

Offline sakurai187

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 08:42:01 AM »
This is the worst economic climate since the early 80s, not the 30s.

But still, I see your point.


Offline Dream Out Loud

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2009, 09:21:15 AM »
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This is the worst economic climate since the early 80s, not the 30s.

But still, I see your point.



thank you, Jimmy Carter, for that one.  I just fear that President Messiah is no Reagan.

Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2009, 09:32:26 AM »
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This is the worst economic climate since the early 80s, not the 30s.

But still, I see your point.



thank you, Jimmy Carter, for that one.  I just fear that President Messiah is no Reagan.

Hopefully he's no Reagan.

A President who stays awake during important meetings would be a good thing.




Offline Dream Out Loud

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 09:36:24 AM »
a president that defeated the Russians in his sleep?  wow, gimme that guy.  i'll certainly take him over a president shopping for US DVDs to give to the Queen. 


Offline JuniorEmblem

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 09:44:50 AM »
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a president that defeated the Russians in his sleep?  wow, gimme that guy.  i'll certainly take him over a president shopping for US DVDs to give to the Queen. 



"defeated" - ROFLMAO!!!!!

He just outspent them, creating a massive deficit in doing so.

He ran THE most corrupt Gov't in US History

By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations.  In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever.

   1. James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior was indicted on 41 felony counts for using connections at the Department of Housing and Urban Development to help his private clients seek federal funds for housing projects in Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.  Watt conceded that he had received $500,000 from clients who were granted very favorable housing contracts after he had intervened on their behalf.  In testifying before a House committee Watt said: "That's what they offered and it sounded like a lot of money to me, and we settled on it." Watt was eventually sentenced to five years in prison and 500 hours of community service.
   2. Although not convicted, Edwin Meese III, resigned as Reagan's Attorney General after having been the subject of investigations by the United States Office of the Independent Counsel on two occasions (Wedtech and Iran-Contra), during the 3 short years he was in office.
   3. E. Bob Wallach, close friend and law classmate of Attorney General Edwin Meese, was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $250,000 in connection with the Wedtech influence-peddling scandal.
   4. Lyn Nofziger Convicted on charges of illegal lobbying of White House in Wedtech scandal.
   5. Michael Deaver received three years' probation and was fined one hundred thousand dollars after being convicted for lying to a congressional subcommittee and a federal grand jury about his lobbying activities after leaving the White House.
   6. The Iran-Contra scandal. In June, 1984, at a National Security Council meeting, CIA Director Casey urged President Reagan to seek third-party aid for the Nicaraguan contras.  Secretary of State Schultz warned that it would be an "impeachable offense" if the U.S. government acted as conduit for such secret funding.  But that didn't stop them.  That same day, Oliver North was seeking third-party aid for the contras.  But Reagan, the "teflon President" avoided serious charges or impeachment.
   7. Casper Weinberger was Secretary of Defense during Iran-Contra.  In June 1992 he was indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of concealing from congressional investigators and prosecutors thousands of pages of his handwritten notes.  The personal memoirs taken during high level meetings, detailed events in 1985 and 1986 involving the Iran-Contra affair.  Weinberger claimed he was being unfairly prosecuted because he would not provide information incriminating Ronald Reagan.  Weinberger was scheduled to go on trial January 5, 1993, where the contents of his notes would have come to light and may have implicated other, unindicted conspirators.  While Weinberger was never directly linked to the covert operations phase of the Iran-Contra affair, he is believed to have been involved in the cover-up of the ensuing scandal. According to Special Prosecutor Lawrence Walsh, Weinberger's notes contain evidence of a conspiracy among the highest ranking Reagan Administration officials to lie to congress and the American public.  Some of the notes are believed to have evidence against then Vice-President George Bush who pardoned Weinberger to keep him from going to trial.
   8. Raymond Donovan, Secretary of Labor indicted for defrauding the New York City Transit Authority of $7.4. million.
      { Republicans will point out that Donovan was acquitted.  And that really matters in Donovan's case, because he was a Republican.  But it didn't matter for Clinton or any of his cabinet, most all of whom were acquitted, because they were Democrats!}
   9. Elliott Abrams was appointed by President Reagan in 1985 to head the State Department's Latin American Bureau.  He was closely linked with ex-White House aide Lt. Col. Oliver North's covert movement to aid the Contras.  Working for North, Abrams coordinated inter-agency support for the contras and helped solicit illegal funding from foreign powers as well as domestic contributors.  Abrams agreed to cooperate with Iran-Contra investigators and pled guilty to two charges reduced to misdemeanors.  He was sentenced in 1991 to two years probation and 100 hours of community service but was pardoned by President George Bush.
  10. Robert C. McFarlane was appointed Ronald Reagan's National Security Advisor in October 1983 and become well-known as a champion of the MX missile program in his role as White House liaison to congress.  In 1984, Mc Farlane initiated the review of U.S. policy towards Iran that led directly to the arms for hostages deal.  He also supervised early National Security Council efforts to support the Contras. Shortly after the Iran-Contra scandal was revealed in early 1987, McFarlane took an overdose of the tranquilizer Valium in an attempt to end his life.  In his own words: "What really drove me to despair was a sense of having failed the country." McFarlane pled guilty to four misdemeanors and was sentenced to two years probation and 200 hours of community service.  He was also fined $20,000.  He received a blanket pardon from President George Bush.
  11. Oliver North Convicted of falsifying and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abetting the obstruction of Congress.  Conviction overturned on appeal due to legal technicalities.
  12. John Poindexter, Reagan's national security advisor, guilty of five criminal counts involving conspiracy to mislead Congress, obstructing congressional inquiries, lying to lawmakers, used "high national security" to mask deceit and wrong-doing.
  13. Richard Secord pleaded guilty to a felony charge of lying to Congress over Iran-Contra.
  14. Alan D. Fiers was the Chief of the Central Intelligence Agency's Central American Task Force.  Fiers pled guilty in 1991 to two counts of withholding information from congress about Oliver North's activities and the diversion of Iran arms sale money to aid the Contras.  He was sentenced to one year of probation and 100 hours of community service.  Fiers agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in exchange for having his felonies reduced to misdemeanors and his testimony gave a boost to the long standing criminal investigation of Lawrence Walsh, Special Prosecutor.  Fiers testified that he and three CIA colleagues knew by mid-1986 that profits from the TOW and HAWK missile sales to Iran were being diverted to the Contras months before it became public knowledge.  Alan Fiers received a blanket pardon for his crimes from President Bush.
  15. Clair George was Chief of the CIA's Division of Covert Operations under President Reagan.  In August 1992 a hung jury led U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth to declare a mistrial in the case of Clair George who was accused of concealing from Congress his knowledge of the Iran-Contra affair.  George had been named by Alan Fiers when Fiers turned state's evidence for Lawrence Walsh's investigation. In a second trial on charges of perjury, false statements and obstruction of justice, George was convicted of lying to two congressional committees in 1986.  George faced a maximum five year federal prison sentence and a $20,000 fine for each of the two convictions.  Jurors cleared George of five other charges including two counts of lying to a federal grand jury.  Those charges would have carried a mandatory 10 months in prison upon conviction.  Clair George received a blanket pardon for his crimes from President George Bush.
  16. Duane R. (Dewey) Clarridge was head of the CIA's Western European Division under President Reagan.  He was indicted on November 29, 1991 for lying to congress and to the Tower Commission that investigated Iran- Contra.  Clarridge was charged with five counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements for covering up his knowledge of a November 25, 1985 shipment of HAWK missiles to Iran. Clarridge was also suspected of diverting to the Contras weapons that were originally intended for the Afghan mujahaddeen guerrillas.  Clarridge received a blanket pardon for his crimes on Christmas Eve 1992 from President George Bush.
  17. Environmental Protection Agency's favoritism toward polluters.  Assistant administrator unduly influenced by chemical industry lobbyists.  Another administrator resigned after pressuring employees to tone down a critical report on a chemical company accused of illegal pollution in Michigan.  The deputy chief of federal activities was accused of compiling an interagency "hit" or "enemies" list, like those kept in the Nixon Watergate period, singling out career employees to be hired, fired or promoted according to political beliefs.
  18. Anne Gorscuh Burford resigned amid accusations she politically manipulated the Superfund money.
  19. Rita Lavelle was fired after accusing a senior EPA official of "systematically alienating the business community." She was later indicted, tried and convicted of lying to Congress and served three months of a six-month prison sentence.  After an extensive investigation, in August 1984, a House of Representatives subcommittee concluded that top-level EPA appointees by Reagan for three years "violated their public trust by disregarding the public health and the environment, manipulating the Superfund program for political purposes, engaging in unethical conduct and participating in other abuses.".
  20. Neglected nuclear safety. A critical situation involving nuclear safety had been allowed to develop during the Reagan era.  Immense sums, estimated at 200 billion or more, would be required in the 1990s to replace and make safe America's neglected, aging, deteriorating, and dangerous nuclear facilities.
  21. Savings & Loan Bail-out. Hundreds of billions of dollars were needed to bail out savings and loan institutions that either had failed during the deregulation frenzy of the eighties or were in danger of bankruptcy.
  22. Reckless airline deregulation. Deregulation of airline industry took too broad a sweep, endangering public safety.
          Additionally:
  23. Richard Allen, National Security adviser resigned amid controversy over an honorarium he received for arranging an interview with Nancy Reagan.
  24. Richard Beggs, chief administrator at NASA was indicted for defrauding the government while an executive at General Dynamics.
  25. Guy Flake, Deputy Secretary of Commerce, resigned after allegations of a conflict of interest in contract negotiations.
  26. Louis Glutfrida, Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency resigned amid allegations of misuses of government property.
  27. Edwin Gray, Chairman of the Federal Home Loan Bank was charged with illegally repaying himself and his wife $26,000 in travel costs.
  28. Max Hugel, CIA chief of covert operations who resigned after allegations of fraudulent financial dealings.
  29. Carlos Campbell, Assistant Secretary of Commerce resigned over charges of awarding federal grants to his personal friends' firms.
  30. John Fedders, chief of enforcement for the Securities and Exchange Commission resigned over charges of beating his wife.
  31. Arthur Hayes, Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration resigned over illegal travel reimbursements.
  32. J. Lynn Helms, chief of the Federal Aviation Administration resigned over a grand jury investigation of illegal business activities.
  33. Marjory Mecklenburg, Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Resources resigned over irregularities on her travel vouchers.
  34. Robert Nimmo, head of the Veterans Administration resigned when a report criticized him for improper use of government funds.
  35. J. William Petro, U.S. Attorney fired and fined for tipping off an acquaintance about a forthcoming Grand Jury investigation.
  36. Thomas C. Reed, White House counselor and National Security Council adviser resigned and paid a $427,000 fine for stock market insider trading.
  37. Emanuel Savas, Assistant Secretary of HUD resigned over assigning staff members to work on government time on a book that guilty to expense account fraud and accepting kickbacks on government contracts.
  38. Charles Wick, Director of the U.S. Information Agency investigated for taping conversations with public officials without their approval.
              As of March 27, 2007, it was only an indictment, but Bloomberg News was reporting that David Stockman, President Reagan's budget director, was indicted on charges of defrauding investors and banks of $1.6 billion while chairman of Collins & Aikman Corp., an auto parts maker that collapsed days after he quit.




Offline suppers ready

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 11:41:16 AM »
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This is the worst economic climate since the early 80s, not the 30s.

But still, I see your point.



thank you, Jimmy Carter, for that one.  I just fear that President Messiah is no Reagan.

Jimmy Carter?  Guess again bud.  The recession under carter's administration ended before Reagan took office....and that recession was courtesy of then new Fed Chairman Paul Volker, who came in and swore he would "strangle inflation," as well as OPEC.  Volker did end high inflation, but it was painful.

For reference, throughout the Nixon, Ford and Carter Administrations, inflation ranged from 7-11% annually.

Carter may not have been great, but he wasn't the cause of the recession in 82.

Offline Dream Out Loud

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Re: What if we weren't in the worst economic climate since 1930?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »
I pity you, Junior.  I really do.  Out of one side of your mouth you laugh at the suggestion that Reagan defeated communism and the other side you acknowledge that he outspent them to their demise.  even if i were to grant your crazy suggestion that all he did was outspend them, i'd take that debt over having a Cold War...you wouldn't?

but we're way off topic.  before we get shut down, let's get back to the topic at hand:

I think the U2 audience as a whole is getting older...and that generally translates into deeper pockets for the "Average" fan.  It might be tough to sell-out these massive stadiums going forward, but the fan is richer and richer every tour so I think sales will be fine.  That being said, I think this will be the last of the massive outdoor tours here in the US.  the average fan is also getting older which means interest in standing in an 80,000 stadium to see them from miles away will wane over the years.