Author Topic: it's just not ZOO....  (Read 5109 times)

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Offline donvalley360

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2009, 09:26:54 AM »
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Dude stop living in the past. Embrace the future. That ZOOTV attitude is no longer relevant. This ain't the 90's its not even the 00's anymore. If you don't think 360 is as good as ZOOtv then don't go. Stay in your room watching the Zootv Dvd over and over. The rest of us want to give the future a big kiss.  :)


 ;D  ;D

Offline Nielsen

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2009, 09:30:24 AM »
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well I'm really going to upset you now. I HATED the zooTV era. I bowed out and stopped following them in the 90's. I cringed when I saw BOno as Macphisto and cringed when i  saw them dressed up for the Discotteque video. perhaps I'm just older and more staid than you lot. But U2 to me ar when they're more traditional. I loved HTDaaB and vertigo for being U2 albums. i cnat stand popousness- ok shoot me down

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Offline yahweh

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2009, 10:12:25 AM »
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Offline wrldchamps04

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2009, 11:06:02 AM »
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As much as I want to see a more fun Bono, I grew up liking this Bono we have now. I honestly don't want Bono to go into crazy overrdrive mode and a 49 year old rockstar still acting like a 27 year old is just odd. Example: Jagger.
I'd like Bono, to be Bono....whatever he feels at the moment.......as for Jagger...he's absolutely toned down, thru the years......and was the best Rock n Roll frontman (not best singer etc) of all time...in my opinion.

Offline in_eden

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2009, 11:58:05 AM »
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

False interpetation?
Wow. So you are THE authority then?
Both ZOO and POP were gaudy over the top slap in the face obvious social commentary.
360 is about closeness, and maybe spirituality... but it is NO WAY the total presentation that ZooTV or Popmart was. ZooTV had characters... uniforms... Popmart had fake muscles and theming elludint to McDonalds and K-mart.
ZooTV and Popmart were satire, a commentary on society. The staging and imagry all tied together to lead to a common theme.
360 is something else entirely. Sure there is the desmond tutu speech... and Bono's pontification prior to One, but it's nowhere near as overtly stylized as ZooTV or Popmart.
360 is a concert on an amazing stage.
ZooTV and Popmart were SHOWS that included the stage as part of an over-all theme.

Offline yahweh

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2009, 01:18:53 PM »
Of course both are totally different, just like these two decades are totally different, that's the point, one is a stylish satire, the other is an ethereal symbolism, in other words the meaning is hidden and you have to work for it to get it.

btw, im not the authority, im not Bono ;D i just see the purpose of this tour as it was intended.   

Offline markreed

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2009, 03:52:17 PM »
I cringe when I see Bono waving a white flag or lecturing me about poverty. I KNOW POVERTY IS BAD. I prefer it when U2 mess with the medium and have fun instead of po-faced hectoring.

Offline rlj1010

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2009, 04:23:33 PM »
It ain't the 80's anymore either, but that sure as hell doesn't stop them performing I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Angel of Harlem, The Unforgettable Fire, Sunday Bloody Sunday, Pride, MLK, Where the Streets Have No Name, With Or Without You, etc on a nightly basis.

I don't think anybody really wants Zoo TV Part Two....  we just want some of the adventurous spirit that inhabited those 90s albums in the current stage show...   Because the way it is, its all songs from the 80s, or songs that came out in the 2000's which sound like they could have been released in the 80s.



Offline StrongGirl

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2009, 08:00:21 PM »
I don't know-it seems the popular attitude here is that the Zoo TV era was the be all / end all for U2. Don't get me wrong here - 90's U2 were amazing and exciting but for those of you too young to remember-80's U2 were just as exciting for its time in a very different way of course. Those early years were nothing short of spectacular for those of us who were lucky enough to experience the beginning  and the break out of this band.  I think those years get dismissed very easily by many here but as I have said numerous times before-that has a lot to do with our ages and when we first discovered this band. Of course there will always be exceptions but that is what  I think holds true here.

Offline whitewave

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2009, 05:48:40 AM »
No it is not Zoo it is No Line. Zoo was good, I would not want them to repeat Zoo.  It is a case of that was then this is now.

Offline aurabender

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2009, 06:22:32 PM »
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 
think this interpretation of the 360 Tour is spot on. I follows what the band has been saying  out loud ince NLOTH. I often though The Claw was more of a Cathedral than a claw. However, I do think the band's execution of The Zoo era was much better that what we have seen iwth 360.....so far.  The stage is a work of art (in the round or not) that is totally underused. (Watching the opening of Streets is like watching a bottle rocket with a wet fuse.) The beauty and slight of hand that was Zoo would all be lost if it was just redone again. However i do think the band is having to learn that to climb out of arena mode into the stadium, you do have to be a bit over the top. In other words, if you are going to fill a stadium and you want to put little red lights on your jacket ...don't just do the sleeves.

Offline Darkstar

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2009, 12:40:56 AM »
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Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Put down the bong, or a least quit bogarting it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 12:43:37 AM by Darkstar »

Offline DGordon1

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2009, 04:19:53 AM »
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Pretty sanctimonious tone you have there :p No doubt the 360 Tour is spectacular and uplifting, but it's not a piece of art in the way that ZooTV was. I fear you're kidding yourself if you think it is more complex than ZooTV. Still a wonderful tour though.

Offline nolinehere

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2009, 07:20:00 AM »
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Pretty sanctimonious tone you have there :p No doubt the 360 Tour is spectacular and uplifting, but it's not a piece of art in the way that ZooTV was. I fear you're kidding yourself if you think it is more complex than ZooTV. Still a wonderful tour though.

To me it looks like the claw separates the band from a huge part of the audience more than Zoo ever did. Then there's the B-stage, definitely brought the band closer. No enclosures, no separating ellipses, just the band laid bare in the middle of the stadium. Now THAT was a lot more 360 than 360.


Offline Vervefloyd

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Re: it's just not ZOO....
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2009, 11:36:17 PM »
"And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them."

And the set list is their way of reminding us of how many of their songs they flat out refuse to play or practice.  This isnt the satirical days of the 90's or the we want to remain the biggest band in the world of the early to mid 2000's, this is about 2009.  And U2 can make a stage that goes a mile high and 5000 football fields wide, but they forgot one important ingredient in 2009, the fans know the set list before you hit the stage, even the casual fans.  Read the reviews, they are astonishing.  Ive read stuff that says wait for the DVD or i'm only going to one show not because of money but because it's the same show save one or two songs.  This tour is only a few shows in and already its dragging.  U2 reinventing themselves in this modern era has nothing to do with elaborate stadium concerts it has to do with U2 getting that reckless abandon back.  Many bands have fallen apart and become greatest hits bands because they hold onto certain songs and put way too much weight into a song because it got released as a single and got radio airplay.  There is no factual evidence that With Or Without You is a better song than Red Hill Mining Town.  Absolutely none at all.  Red Hill Mining Town was never given the chance to be the song With Or Without You became because of the dynamics of singles and radio airplay.  Here is U2's chance to start over.  If reversed and Red Hill Mining Town had been released as planned instead of I still Haven't Found, then that would be a classic I guarantee it.  All songs are created equal.  Springsteen sure figured it out.  Up through his 1996 solo Tom Goad tour, his sets were very static for most of his career.  Granted he played 3 hours, but very static.  Then in 1999 when the E Street Band got together everything changed and he embraced the culture and embraced his back catalog almost all of it.  U2 wrote their songs, they should be able to play them all.

And if they did, that gigantic waste of money, the claw, would feel like a tapestry backdrop in a club and U2 would get back to doing what they did at the beginning.  Playing their songs not just the 7 new ones and the ones played time and time again.

And this is how you top Zoo TV.  You can't ever touch that tour by trying to be bigger.  You touch that tour by embracing your catalog that god knows U2 spent forever writing.  You would think after all that time and effort that went into writing those songs you wouldn't want to just trash them and never play them live again.