Poll

Pop? Or Zooropa?

Pop
28 (43.1%)
Zooropa
37 (56.9%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?  (Read 10063 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tumbling Dice

  • Drowning Man/Woman
  • ***
  • Posts: 22,131
  • I won't pay the usual fee
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #90 on: December 12, 2009, 09:01:22 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.

Offline efdeat

  • Elevated
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,452
  • It's your world. You can change it.
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #91 on: December 12, 2009, 10:56:26 AM »
I voted for Pop.  This was a hard decision - see my post in the "you know you're an obsessed U2 fan" thread - but it came down to a few things.

1.  I skip fewer songs on Pop.  I appreciate the guitar work in Dirty Day but otherwise do not like the song.  Babyface is one that I can take or leave.  When I listen to Pop, on the other hand, the only song I consider skipping is Velvet Dress, and I usually end up listening to it.
2.  I think Pop has a unified feel.  Zooropa is a little disjointed - maybe that's the unifying factor?  I think Pop hangs together well.
3.  Gone.  I still remember where I was when I first heard it (I-85, driving to relatives for New Year's), because Edge blew my mind.

Zooropa deserves all the credit it gets.  The back half of the title track has some of my all-time favorite lyrics, Numb is a delightful piece of fun, and Stay is one of those pieces that makes everything else stop while I listen to it.  The First Time is the kind of song that can kick you in the gut; I think I haven't been the same since I heard it.  I'm not sure the other pieces on the album are as strong.

Ultimately, I think what we say about music says more about us than it does about the songs, so I guess I am more of a Pop kind of person.  Great question, though, and probably one worth revisiting in another year or so to see if people, myself included, still feel the same way!

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #92 on: December 12, 2009, 09:27:37 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

Offline U2_fan8 [aka U28]

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,189
  • If there is a light, don't let it go out
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2009, 09:29:32 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

How is there a difference between the two?

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2009, 09:30:52 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I voted for Pop.  This was a hard decision - see my post in the "you know you're an obsessed U2 fan" thread - but it came down to a few things.

1.  I skip fewer songs on Pop.  I appreciate the guitar work in Dirty Day but otherwise do not like the song.  Babyface is one that I can take or leave.  When I listen to Pop, on the other hand, the only song I consider skipping is Velvet Dress, and I usually end up listening to it.
2.  I think Pop has a unified feel.  Zooropa is a little disjointed - maybe that's the unifying factor?  I think Pop hangs together well.
3.  Gone.  I still remember where I was when I first heard it (I-85, driving to relatives for New Year's), because Edge blew my mind.

Zooropa deserves all the credit it gets.  The back half of the title track has some of my all-time favorite lyrics, Numb is a delightful piece of fun, and Stay is one of those pieces that makes everything else stop while I listen to it.  The First Time is the kind of song that can kick you in the gut; I think I haven't been the same since I heard it.  I'm not sure the other pieces on the album are as strong.

Ultimately, I think what we say about music says more about us than it does about the songs, so I guess I am more of a Pop kind of person.  Great question, though, and probably one worth revisiting in another year or so to see if people, myself included, still feel the same way!
Yes, which is why I think I will keep the voting open even though a very wise poster suggested I should close it. Can you please go into more detail about your Zooropa analysis because you write well and brought up some good points in that post and I want to know a bit more detail.

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2009, 09:31:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

How is there a difference between the two?
The album and the Elevation Live?

Offline U2_fan8 [aka U28]

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,189
  • If there is a light, don't let it go out
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2009, 09:33:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

How is there a difference between the two?
The album and the Elevation Live?

The album and the mix off of 90-00.

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2009, 09:36:36 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

How is there a difference between the two?
The album and the Elevation Live?

The album and the mix off of 90-00.
hmm... probably best you give that a listen instead of me describing it. Basically, if Gone was on ATYCLB (which I love) it would sound like the new mix. Loses all it's fire and awesomeness. The "Up With the Sun" part is just no where near as good as the original.

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2009, 09:37:24 PM »
The original is, as Tumbling Dice said, Awash with Colour.

Offline U2_fan8 [aka U28]

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,189
  • If there is a light, don't let it go out
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2009, 09:38:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And we don't want them sweating too much over something... then we get "overproduced". And Gone "New Mix" which can't hold a candle to the original and changes the point of the song completely.

The new mix of Gone was done in the style in which they played it live on the Elevation tour.

I much prefer the POP version awash with colour.
HEAR HEAR!

How is there a difference between the two?
The album and the Elevation Live?

The album and the mix off of 90-00.
hmm... probably best you give that a listen instead of me describing it. Basically, if Gone was on ATYCLB (which I love) it would sound like the new mix. Loses all it's fire and awesomeness. The "Up With the Sun" part is just no where near as good as the original.

I've heard both of them, but I wasn't paying tons of attention to the differences. I heard them, but I didn't really notice them.

Offline efdeat

  • Elevated
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,452
  • It's your world. You can change it.
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2009, 07:14:32 PM »
One angle for this intriguing comparison is the angle of credibility; what's the instrumentation, what are the lyrics, how complex is each song's (or album's) texture, and how do these elements measure up to the high standards that U2 fans have for U2's music?

WARNING: OPINIONS TO FOLLOW  :)

The Zooropa album flexes creative muscles with instrumentation (Zooropa, Babyface, Lemon, Daddy's come to mind), inscrutable/provocative lyrics (Zooropa again, Numb, Lemon, Stay, The First Time, The Wanderer), and texture (The title track and Lemon are now 3 for 3).  So we have 2 standout songs, Zooropa and Lemon, and many others that are strong in one area.  There are a few songs that don't make any of the cuts: Some Days . . . and Dirty Day.  Are there more than 2 songs that I like on Zooropa?  Absolutely.  Would I expect more than 2 home runs on a U2 album?  Yes, especially given JT and AB being in the back catalogue at this point in U2's career.  Babyface creeps me out a little bit - the whole pornography thing . . .

So over to Pop.  The instrumentation throws us for a loop on many tracks, because we're wondering where the "Edge guitar" sound is.  Discotheque, Mofo, If God . . ., Staring at the Sun, Gone, Please, Velvet Dress, and Wake Up . . . especially push boundaries/defy expectations.  Lyrically, Do You Feel Loved, Mofo, If God, Playboy Mansion, Please, and Wake Up . . . are standouts, either levelling with us about real feelings of love, loss, and anger, or using creative images to express these feelings.  The songs on Pop exhibit a variety of textures - the all-out techno rave of Mofo, the almost unplugged feel of If God . . ., and the buildup in Please are good examples.  This gives us 3 standout tracks: Mofo, If God will Send his Angels, and Please.  The instrumentation on Gone makes it a standout for many listeners, myself included.  Miami is a kind of fun song but is not at the top of any of my lists.  I think Last Night on Earth is "mysterious and cool," in the words of another forum poster, but I don't think it's as strong as some other pieces.  What really makes Pop's case for me is how many songs are pushing the envelope or stand out in at least one category.  I think it's worth noting that many pieces on Zooropa are lyrically significant but not as strong musically.  Bring on the counterarguments, Zooropa fans!  :)

These are my more-than two cents; I guess I like when the lyrics, instrumentation, and texture in a piece all come together, and that happens for me more often on Pop than on Zooropa.  Peace.  :)

Offline dudette

  • Up With the Sun
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,451
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2009, 07:19:53 PM »
Pop.

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #102 on: December 13, 2009, 07:52:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
One angle for this intriguing comparison is the angle of credibility; what's the instrumentation, what are the lyrics, how complex is each song's (or album's) texture, and how do these elements measure up to the high standards that U2 fans have for U2's music?

WARNING: OPINIONS TO FOLLOW  :)

The Zooropa album flexes creative muscles with instrumentation (Zooropa, Babyface, Lemon, Daddy's come to mind), inscrutable/provocative lyrics (Zooropa again, Numb, Lemon, Stay, The First Time, The Wanderer), and texture (The title track and Lemon are now 3 for 3).  So we have 2 standout songs, Zooropa and Lemon, and many others that are strong in one area.  There are a few songs that don't make any of the cuts: Some Days . . . and Dirty Day.  Are there more than 2 songs that I like on Zooropa?  Absolutely.  Would I expect more than 2 home runs on a U2 album?  Yes, especially given JT and AB being in the back catalogue at this point in U2's career.  Babyface creeps me out a little bit - the whole pornography thing . . .

So over to Pop.  The instrumentation throws us for a loop on many tracks, because we're wondering where the "Edge guitar" sound is.  Discotheque, Mofo, If God . . ., Staring at the Sun, Gone, Please, Velvet Dress, and Wake Up . . . especially push boundaries/defy expectations.  Lyrically, Do You Feel Loved, Mofo, If God, Playboy Mansion, Please, and Wake Up . . . are standouts, either levelling with us about real feelings of love, loss, and anger, or using creative images to express these feelings.  The songs on Pop exhibit a variety of textures - the all-out techno rave of Mofo, the almost unplugged feel of If God . . ., and the buildup in Please are good examples.  This gives us 3 standout tracks: Mofo, If God will Send his Angels, and Please.  The instrumentation on Gone makes it a standout for many listeners, myself included.  Miami is a kind of fun song but is not at the top of any of my lists.  I think Last Night on Earth is "mysterious and cool," in the words of another forum poster, but I don't think it's as strong as some other pieces.  What really makes Pop's case for me is how many songs are pushing the envelope or stand out in at least one category.  I think it's worth noting that many pieces on Zooropa are lyrically significant but not as strong musically.  Bring on the counterarguments, Zooropa fans!  :)

These are my more-than two cents; I guess I like when the lyrics, instrumentation, and texture in a piece all come together, and that happens for me more often on Pop than on Zooropa.  Peace.  :)
So Dirty Day does not have interesting instrumentation, good lyrics, or texture? I'd say it has the first two, and some days has all three. Does anyone else agree?

Offline U2_fan8 [aka U28]

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,189
  • If there is a light, don't let it go out
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #103 on: December 13, 2009, 07:54:48 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
One angle for this intriguing comparison is the angle of credibility; what's the instrumentation, what are the lyrics, how complex is each song's (or album's) texture, and how do these elements measure up to the high standards that U2 fans have for U2's music?

WARNING: OPINIONS TO FOLLOW  :)

The Zooropa album flexes creative muscles with instrumentation (Zooropa, Babyface, Lemon, Daddy's come to mind), inscrutable/provocative lyrics (Zooropa again, Numb, Lemon, Stay, The First Time, The Wanderer), and texture (The title track and Lemon are now 3 for 3).  So we have 2 standout songs, Zooropa and Lemon, and many others that are strong in one area.  There are a few songs that don't make any of the cuts: Some Days . . . and Dirty Day.  Are there more than 2 songs that I like on Zooropa?  Absolutely.  Would I expect more than 2 home runs on a U2 album?  Yes, especially given JT and AB being in the back catalogue at this point in U2's career.  Babyface creeps me out a little bit - the whole pornography thing . . .

So over to Pop.  The instrumentation throws us for a loop on many tracks, because we're wondering where the "Edge guitar" sound is.  Discotheque, Mofo, If God . . ., Staring at the Sun, Gone, Please, Velvet Dress, and Wake Up . . . especially push boundaries/defy expectations.  Lyrically, Do You Feel Loved, Mofo, If God, Playboy Mansion, Please, and Wake Up . . . are standouts, either levelling with us about real feelings of love, loss, and anger, or using creative images to express these feelings.  The songs on Pop exhibit a variety of textures - the all-out techno rave of Mofo, the almost unplugged feel of If God . . ., and the buildup in Please are good examples.  This gives us 3 standout tracks: Mofo, If God will Send his Angels, and Please.  The instrumentation on Gone makes it a standout for many listeners, myself included.  Miami is a kind of fun song but is not at the top of any of my lists.  I think Last Night on Earth is "mysterious and cool," in the words of another forum poster, but I don't think it's as strong as some other pieces.  What really makes Pop's case for me is how many songs are pushing the envelope or stand out in at least one category.  I think it's worth noting that many pieces on Zooropa are lyrically significant but not as strong musically.  Bring on the counterarguments, Zooropa fans!  :)

These are my more-than two cents; I guess I like when the lyrics, instrumentation, and texture in a piece all come together, and that happens for me more often on Pop than on Zooropa.  Peace.  :)
So Dirty Day does not have interesting instrumentation, good lyrics, or texture? I'd say it has the first two, and some days has all three. Does anyone else agree?

I think if the whole album has anything, it has texture and fascinating instrumentation, to say the least.

Offline Aqua

  • Acrobat
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,454
  • adam for trlica 8^)
Re: The Ultimate Showdown... Pop? Or Zooropa?
« Reply #104 on: December 13, 2009, 08:06:42 PM »
Some Days and The First Time both have great texture.