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U2 => Tours => Topic started by: hj on April 30, 2010, 11:46:38 AM

Title: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on April 30, 2010, 11:46:38 AM
Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: Tumbling Dice on April 30, 2010, 11:57:26 AM
If you herd fans into football stadiums or fields like pigs, are you really surprised when they behave like pigs?

It's a respect thing. ;)



 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on April 30, 2010, 11:59:37 AM
Heya hj!  
Thanks for the link and I'll check it out!  8)  I couldn't agree more!   :)
I was shocked & horrified at the mass amounts of garbage and litter around GA for Chi1 and when there were garbage containers nearby and also crews working the crowds!  Everything from blankets, chairs, coolers and food.  Terrible!  And embarrassing.  

I'll definitely sign & I hope lots of fans do their part, whether they sign or not.  
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hurricane hugo on April 30, 2010, 03:14:07 PM
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If you herd fans into football stadiums or fields like pigs, are you really surprised when they behave like pigs?

It's a respect thing. ;)



 

That's no excuse, and it's the fans that show no respect. On December 31, 1999, the band Phish held an all-night gig on the edge of the Everglades. They asked the fans to help with the cleanup - just picking up their own trash, really - on the way out. The fans ended up leaving the site cleaner than it was when the crew arrived to start setting up the stage. 

#@!
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: Tumbling Dice on April 30, 2010, 03:31:05 PM
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If you herd fans into football stadiums or fields like pigs, are you really surprised when they behave like pigs?

It's a respect thing. ;)



 

That's no excuse, and it's the fans that show no respect. On December 31, 1999, the band Phish held an all-night gig on the edge of the Everglades. They asked the fans to help with the cleanup - just picking up their own trash, really - on the way out. The fans ended up leaving the site cleaner than it was when the crew arrived to start setting up the stage. 

#@!

I agree, it's no excuse, but are you really surprised?

I'll bet there's not much stuff strewn all over the place after an arena show.


****Edited by Admin to remove masking of inappropriate language****

Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: birdlover on April 30, 2010, 04:58:21 PM
I was at the Chicago shows, and yes, there was a lot of trash. One good thing came of the coolers, blankets and chairs, though. Homeless folks were able to collect them and put them to good use. Too bad there couldn't have been less garbage, though.

I tossed my stuff in the trash bins.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: StrongGirl on May 01, 2010, 12:10:21 AM
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If you herd fans into football stadiums or fields like pigs, are you really surprised when they behave like pigs?

It's a respect thing. ;)



 

That's no excuse, and it's the fans that show no respect. On December 31, 1999, the band Phish held an all-night gig on the edge of the Everglades. They asked the fans to help with the cleanup - just picking up their own trash, really - on the way out. The fans ended up leaving the site cleaner than it was when the crew arrived to start setting up the stage. 

#@!

Very nice!!!
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 03, 2010, 05:46:14 PM
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I was at the Chicago shows, and yes, there was a lot of trash. One good thing came of the coolers, blankets and chairs, though. Homeless folks were able to collect them and put them to good use. Too bad there couldn't have been less garbage, though.

I tossed my stuff in the trash bins.


Heya birdlover... Sorry we missed you!  :(  How do you know this - re: benefiting homeless people?  If that's the case &/or anyone benefited, then I'm glad.    :)   And if someone organized that, that's great too.   

As for Phish fans - good for them!  I'd hope U2 fans could be just as respectful outdoors.  Indoors too albeit its hard to do that in GA once the show starts.   :P  Nobody would lose their spot to try to find a garbage receptacle. 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: birdlover on May 03, 2010, 08:35:47 PM
P8, shortly after the concert I read it  somewhere that the homeless came in a grabbed all the 'furniture'.It could have been in my local paper (I'm in Wisconsin) or online, but I know I read it and felt better about all the junk going to good use.
I'll be there again this July, GA...are you going again?
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 04, 2010, 06:09:08 AM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.

Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on May 04, 2010, 12:06:07 PM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: briscoetheque on May 05, 2010, 10:06:56 PM
But the food vendors just go around at the end of the show, pick up all the sh**e and re-sell it at the following night's concert.

By cleaning it up you are depriving food catering staff of their livlihood.

You bunch of insensitive treehuggers.

FILL A BURRITO - DROP MORE RUBBISH
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: u2pinstripes on May 05, 2010, 10:19:25 PM
I remember walking out of Giants Stadium GA after night 1, and there were SO many plastic beer bottles on the field that you literally could not walk out without stepping on them.  You actually could not see the ground because the entire GA pitch (metal covering) was covered with beer bottles.  The next night in GA, my feet were sticking to the metal floor because of all the beer that had been spilled the night before.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 06, 2010, 01:59:58 PM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?


Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.

Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: DGordon1 on May 06, 2010, 02:32:20 PM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?


Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.



Good lord, why is everything so dour about U2 in your eyes? Your posts are so excessively negative. I don't see what you get out of creating a new profile every few months and complaining about all things U2 on a U2 fansite. It's so obvious that U2 have completely fallen out of favour with you, what's the point in complaining so much? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but man your posts depress the hell out of me!
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on May 06, 2010, 02:38:48 PM
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bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.


Oh I'd bet Bono has an opinion on this for sure.
Here is there U2 360į Tour Environmental Impact Strategy:
TOUR-WIDE COMMITMENT TO A NET ZERO EMISSIONS GOAL FOR THE GLOBAL TOUR


http://www.u2.com/static/index/index/content/zero_emissions

I think they've done a good job recognizing their irresponsibility. 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: Rock N Roll Girl on May 07, 2010, 12:43:13 AM
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Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.



Good lord, why is everything so dour about U2 in your eyes? Your posts are so excessively negative. I don't see what you get out of creating a new profile every few months and complaining about all things U2 on a U2 fansite. It's so obvious that U2 have completely fallen out of favour with you, what's the point in complaining so much? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but man your posts depress the hell out of me!

x2. It's fine to whine a little here and there about stuff, but if you can't find ANYTHING to like then why bother spending time here?
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 07, 2010, 01:55:19 AM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?


Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.



Good lord, why is everything so dour about U2 in your eyes? Your posts are so excessively negative. I don't see what you get out of creating a new profile every few months and complaining about all things U2 on a U2 fansite. It's so obvious that U2 have completely fallen out of favour with you, what's the point in complaining so much? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but man your posts depress the hell out of me!

This is a U2 forum, not a U2 fan site - therefore all opinions (positive or negative) are valid. I guess I could swing your quote round and suggest if you want to be excessively positive about U2, go to a fan site.

With that in mind, I am at liberty to have an opinion about U2's environmental credentials.

I don't mean to depress you, but I do think bono has some real problems regarding his perception of the world - and his motivations. That's just my opinion and in the spirit of democratic debate, it should be respected. I also feel I have a fairly good knowledge of U2 and their history having followed the band since 1984.

My point here is that the thread is called 'The Clean Concert Pledge' - the idea that U2 concerts (amongst others) are 'clean' is ridiculous. Remember the farce that was the 'earth watch' concert or whatever it was called in London? Self obsessed pop stars flying in from all corners of the world for an hour, then flying out again? If bono and others can't see the farce in this then I'm a banana.

Equally, I fail to see how waving a very strong opinion about the environment and global warming is negative in the wider context. If bono can't see a massive contradiction between his massive carbon footprint and the lives of people in Africa, then he's a fool. Or maybe he can see a direct link but won't publicly admit it.

Anyway, not all my posts are negative. I have stuck up for 'ugly people' in the 'ugly rock stars' thread. How is that negative?

Negative is a relative word - your might call me negative - I prefer realistic - and therefore positive.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: DGordon1 on May 07, 2010, 06:50:12 AM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?


Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.



Good lord, why is everything so dour about U2 in your eyes? Your posts are so excessively negative. I don't see what you get out of creating a new profile every few months and complaining about all things U2 on a U2 fansite. It's so obvious that U2 have completely fallen out of favour with you, what's the point in complaining so much? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but man your posts depress the hell out of me!

This is a U2 forum, not a U2 fan site - therefore all opinions (positive or negative) are valid. I guess I could swing your quote round and suggest if you want to be excessively positive about U2, go to a fan site.

With that in mind, I am at liberty to have an opinion about U2's environmental credentials.

I don't mean to depress you, but I do think bono has some real problems regarding his perception of the world - and his motivations. That's just my opinion and in the spirit of democratic debate, it should be respected. I also feel I have a fairly good knowledge of U2 and their history having followed the band since 1984.

My point here is that the thread is called 'The Clean Concert Pledge' - the idea that U2 concerts (amongst others) are 'clean' is ridiculous. Remember the farce that was the 'earth watch' concert or whatever it was called in London? Self obsessed pop stars flying in from all corners of the world for an hour, then flying out again? If bono and others can't see the farce in this then I'm a banana.

Equally, I fail to see how waving a very strong opinion about the environment and global warming is negative in the wider context. If bono can't see a massive contradiction between his massive carbon footprint and the lives of people in Africa, then he's a fool. Or maybe he can see a direct link but won't publicly admit it.

Anyway, not all my posts are negative. I have stuck up for 'ugly people' in the 'ugly rock stars' thread. How is that negative?

Negative is a relative word - your might call me negative - I prefer realistic - and therefore positive.


First of all, I'm not arguing your right to air your opinions. But equally I have a right to say mine, and I'm just a bit confused over what inspires you to visit these forums so often when you're so indifferent to the band currently, as well as many of the fans. That's not a personal attack, I'm just saying I don't get it.

The point about the environmental impact; almost everything any of us do has an environmental impact. We all drive cars, buy plastic bottles, use goods from polluting factories etc etc. There's only so much that individuals can do to address the problem, it's really down to the government and scientific communities to come up with effective solutions. I mean, we're not all going to stop driving because our cars pollute; so the way forward is to develop cleaner fuels. There's no need to give up the things we ant to do, we just have to find ways of doing them more efficiently. It would be a tragedy if big events become part of history because of environmental concerns. The key to environmental impacts is mitigation; and to this end carbon offsets were purchased for the 360 tour, as hj posted. As a society we can either go down the route of devolving ourselves by banning things, or we can develop better ways of doing what we want to do. I know which one I'd prefer, even if it does involve more work.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 07, 2010, 07:22:27 AM
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Ever been to a concert and thought what lazy pigs some people are with their crap spread all over the place?  Especially outdoor concerts...so this is a simple idea:

The Clean Concert pledge started during Earth Day. 
"Lots of people are doing their part for the planetóand I like this thing called The Clean Concert Pledge.  Itís very simple.  You hereby pledge to clean up your crap at outdoor concerts and encourage those around you to do the same thing.  Check out the web page, which even has material for artists, managers and promoters.
http://www.cleanconcert.org/index.php
Itís a good idea.  Just promise to put your garbage in the trash instead of dumping it on the ground."


When I was in Vegas I remarked at how clean it seemed compared to other lineups I have been in.  So thanks U2 fans for picking up after yourselves. I look forward to seeing lots of you out there this summer on the 360 tour and lets keep up the good work keeping it clean.

The idea of a U2 concert being aligned with any kind of environmentally responsible activity is ridiculous isn't it?

Picking up trash isn't going to reverse the hideous carbon footprint created by these tours.



Yeah, the irony knows no bounds really, but hey, we can all do a little something to counter that.  I know I paid for my trips by buying offsets.  U2.com made that available to us, so we can take some responsibility and not jsut say oh well it's already too far gone to even try, right?


Well, it sounds like you're taking more responsibility than U2.

Their tour is shockingly irresponsible in terms of the environment. But hey, as long as you're coining it in guys, who cares, right?

Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

I'm sure bono feels the pain of the world and will write a song about it though. U2 used to have integrity - something to admire I would say. Now they're a big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.



Good lord, why is everything so dour about U2 in your eyes? Your posts are so excessively negative. I don't see what you get out of creating a new profile every few months and complaining about all things U2 on a U2 fansite. It's so obvious that U2 have completely fallen out of favour with you, what's the point in complaining so much? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but man your posts depress the hell out of me!

This is a U2 forum, not a U2 fan site - therefore all opinions (positive or negative) are valid. I guess I could swing your quote round and suggest if you want to be excessively positive about U2, go to a fan site.

With that in mind, I am at liberty to have an opinion about U2's environmental credentials.

I don't mean to depress you, but I do think bono has some real problems regarding his perception of the world - and his motivations. That's just my opinion and in the spirit of democratic debate, it should be respected. I also feel I have a fairly good knowledge of U2 and their history having followed the band since 1984.

My point here is that the thread is called 'The Clean Concert Pledge' - the idea that U2 concerts (amongst others) are 'clean' is ridiculous. Remember the farce that was the 'earth watch' concert or whatever it was called in London? Self obsessed pop stars flying in from all corners of the world for an hour, then flying out again? If bono and others can't see the farce in this then I'm a banana.

Equally, I fail to see how waving a very strong opinion about the environment and global warming is negative in the wider context. If bono can't see a massive contradiction between his massive carbon footprint and the lives of people in Africa, then he's a fool. Or maybe he can see a direct link but won't publicly admit it.

Anyway, not all my posts are negative. I have stuck up for 'ugly people' in the 'ugly rock stars' thread. How is that negative?

Negative is a relative word - your might call me negative - I prefer realistic - and therefore positive.


First of all, I'm not arguing your right to air your opinions. But equally I have a right to say mine, and I'm just a bit confused over what inspires you to visit these forums so often when you're so indifferent to the band currently, as well as many of the fans. That's not a personal attack, I'm just saying I don't get it.

The point about the environmental impact; almost everything any of us do has an environmental impact. We all drive cars, buy plastic bottles, use goods from polluting factories etc etc. There's only so much that individuals can do to address the problem, it's really down to the government and scientific communities to come up with effective solutions. I mean, we're not all going to stop driving because our cars pollute; so the way forward is to develop cleaner fuels. There's no need to give up the things we ant to do, we just have to find ways of doing them more efficiently. It would be a tragedy if big events become part of history because of environmental concerns. The key to environmental impacts is mitigation; and to this end carbon offsets were purchased for the 360 tour, as hj posted. As a society we can either go down the route of devolving ourselves by banning things, or we can develop better ways of doing what we want to do. I know which one I'd prefer, even if it does involve more work.

I see what you mean - but this is a forum for discussing something. I have some positive things to say about the band and some negative things. Although most of the negativity comes from U2 over the past 8 years or so. I, like a lot of people, think bono in particular is a bit offensive. That doesn't stop me having an opinion and caring about a band I once loved. Equally, you may not agree with my opinions and I may not agree with yours but there may be small amounts of inspiration to be gained from even the most negative posts.

In response the other part of your reply:

'it's really down to the government and scientific communities to come up with effective solutions' - I couldn't agree less. Governments have a rich history of doing exactly... nothing - witness the last 'earth summit' or whatever it was called. Ignorant bureaucrats arguing amongst themselves. And here we are, nothing changes, nothing ever will. The world is on a crash course to a huge environmental catastrophe. As the saying goes, 'the personal is the political' - every one of us has a responsibility to change things.

Carbon offsets are a massive cop out and just move responsibility from one place to another. As one scientist said on the radio the other day, 'the only way to limit carbon is to consume less'. By consume he meant fossil fuels, products etc.

U2 may some marketing waffle on their website about offsetting carbon, but is anyone really niave to believe bono and his chums lead a carbon neutral life style? Or the huge footprint from 360 can be offset?

The point is, there are ways of living, touring, etc etc that are well though out. To say it isn't everyone's responsibility is dangerous.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: globaljosh on May 10, 2010, 05:30:30 PM
Not that I'm one to leave a lotta trash lying around, but doesn't the price of admission to one of these gigs cover basic venue operations such as custodial staff? Seriously, we're not talking about pristine wetlands here. We're talking about playing fields for professional sports - fields that are rigorously watered, fertilized, painted, and routinely replaced. It's been well-documented that in most cases the fields are being ripped out and re-sodded after the gigs due to damage anyway. Whether your trash finds its way to the proper receptacle thanks to you or thanks to someone who gets paid to clean up, really, what's the difference? Large sports complexes are used to handling large volumes of people and regardless of whether it's a concert or a sporting event, I'm sure these places are used to seeing a lot of leftover trash (tailgating, anyone?) and pay people to pick up outside the venue as well. I'm all for protecting the environment, but this seems kinda pointless. If you want to leave the place tidy, OK, but don't try and say it's helping the environment!
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: JTBaby on May 10, 2010, 06:21:23 PM
In all seriousness, people are being PAID to clean up after you. The less to clean up, the less they will be paid.

These are usually temporary minimum wage jobs for unskilled workers. Let them have  afew bucks.



Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: birdlover on May 10, 2010, 08:26:53 PM
I can't agree to just leave it. In a stadium there are thousands of people all trying to leave at the same time. Just navigating over the trash is tricky, and maybe even dangerous. Ever step on a squashed water bottle? You can't see where you're walking for the crowd and so folks can get hurt. There are trash bins everywhere.

Those 'minimum wage folks' really don't want the extra work! Been there, done that...in retail. No excuses folks, clean up after yourself! 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: JTBaby on May 10, 2010, 09:07:28 PM
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I can't agree to just leave it. In a stadium there are thousands of people all trying to leave at the same time. Just navigating over the trash is tricky, and maybe even dangerous. Ever step on a squashed water bottle? You can't see where you're walking for the crowd and so folks can get hurt. There are trash bins everywhere.

Those 'minimum wage folks' really don't want the extra work! Been there, done that...in retail. No excuses folks, clean up after yourself! 

If they didn't want the work they wouldn't be there.

Stadium shows are just a cattle drive.




Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: DGordon1 on May 11, 2010, 05:42:20 AM
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I can't agree to just leave it. In a stadium there are thousands of people all trying to leave at the same time. Just navigating over the trash is tricky, and maybe even dangerous. Ever step on a squashed water bottle? You can't see where you're walking for the crowd and so folks can get hurt. There are trash bins everywhere.

Those 'minimum wage folks' really don't want the extra work! Been there, done that...in retail. No excuses folks, clean up after yourself! 

If they didn't want the work they wouldn't be there.

Stadium shows are just a cattle drive.






So when you're in the supermarket do you do the janitors a favour by knocking over all the jars you can find? :P The guys get paid the same, whether they have a lot of work to do or not so much. To disguise laziness as thoughtlessness for unskilled labourers is hysterical.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 12, 2010, 10:59:01 AM
First of all, I go away for a while and I see everything in here is status quo with heated debates!!  LOL.   :D And near thread derailment!   ::)

@birdlover -
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P8, shortly after the concert I read it  somewhere that the homeless came in a grabbed all the 'furniture'.It could have been in my local paper (I'm in Wisconsin) or online, but I know I read it and felt better about all the junk going to good use.
I'll be there again this July, GA...are you going again?


- Thanks for the reply and that's great.  I won't be in CHI 2010 unless plans change.  Could happen but probably out of my budget.  I'm going to DEN instead.  8)

I also agree with you and some other fans here, that leaving garbage & crap for others to clean up b/c there are hired staff/ workers is crazy.  Passing the buck ( and the "labor" on) is irresponsible and selfish if not arrogant.  Sure, its the workers "job" and they are paid laborers but we are all "guests" of sorts to both the stadium and its grounds.  Its not the "environment" or "nature" per se, as some here say - its an urban environment that we live in and share.  We should take pride and care with both. 

Another analogy is - Would you go for dinner at your mother's or friends and leave dishes and garbage all over their home?  Sure, Mom or your friends can pick up after you and will but its a selfish, inconsiderate, entitled and crappy attitude to have. 

@ briscotechque - LMFAO!   :D :D :D   You always bring levity and I love you for that! 
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But the food vendors just go around at the end of the show, pick up all the sh**e and re-sell it at the following night's concert.
By cleaning it up you are depriving food catering staff of their livlihood.
You bunch of insensitive treehuggers.
FILL A BURRITO - DROP MORE RUBBISH

@virginprunes or whoever you are ( I have an idea) - You've a right to your opinions as this is a forum.  It would seem however, that you post enough forceful opinions repeatedly, even within a thread, that it annoys most members.   Discussing the pros or cons of the band is fine and can be either intellectually stimulating or food for thought.   Hammering your opinion down doesn't prove a point.  It only further annoys.   

To address your points ( truncated here): 

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I see what you mean - but this is a forum for discussing something. I have some positive things to say about the band and some negative things. Although most of the negativity comes from U2 over the past 8 years or so. I, like a lot of people, think bono in particular is a bit offensive. That doesn't stop me having an opinion and caring about a band I once loved. Equally, you may not agree with my opinions and I may not agree with yours but there may be small amounts of inspiration to be gained from even the most negative posts.

.....'Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

.....it's really down to the government and scientific communities to come up with effective solutions' - I couldn't agree less. Governments have a rich history of doing exactly... nothing - witness the last 'earth summit' or whatever it was called. Ignorant bureaucrats arguing amongst themselves. And here we are, nothing changes, nothing ever will. The world is on a crash course to a huge environmental catastrophe. As the saying goes, 'the personal is the political' - every one of us has a responsibility to change things.

Carbon offsets are a massive cop out and just move responsibility from one place to another. As one scientist said on the radio the other day, 'the only way to limit carbon is to consume less'. By consume he meant fossil fuels, products etc.

U2 may some marketing waffle on their website about offsetting carbon, but is anyone really niave to believe bono and his chums lead a carbon neutral life style? Or the huge footprint from 360 can be offset?

The point is, there are ways of living, touring, etc etc that are well though out. To say it isn't everyone's responsibility is dangerous.

@virginprunes - You might be surprised that I somewhat agree with you.   in part.  Not totally but in large part.   I do hear what you are saying about U2's own responsibility, your opinions on carbon offsets & the environment, and the effects on Africa.  And how you see that hypocritical perhaps as a lack of integrity.  I hear you on that. 

The 360 tour does appear outright gluttonous & has a massive impact on the environment with its emissions etc, notwithstanding the travel by band and all the fans who travel to their concerts as well as the manufacture of T-shirts and memorabilia mainly imported ( T-shirts are from Mexico).  Others here have noted that U2 have purchased carbon offsets on this tour and likely only a small fraction of fans have done this too.  Much more needs to be done.  Definitely.

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, the environmental problems we face globally, are ALL of our responsibility and including with our governmental  leaders and ourselves individually.   Not either or but BOTH.  N. America in particular ( Canada & US) and likely Australia as well, as well as the fast developing countries & emitters of China and India - are the biggest emitters.    N. America in particular ( Canada & US) but the US primarily are the biggest consumers of the world, by far.  Our staunch sense of entitlement,  our consumerism and over-consumption, has been insatiable and even in comparison with Europe and the UK.  Bigger houses, faster cars, more things many which are frivolous, and ALOT of waste & garbage. 

As an ironic note here:  We are all using computers here to discuss these issues on the forum.  Fans having frivolous fun to serious discussions.  You are using a computer as are all of us.  That takes tangible energy ( read: emission impacts) and the CDs, DVD's concerts etc, and even downloading has an impact.  Is that worthy of emissions & impact or not?  What's an acceptable level? 

So until many more of us around the globe STAND UP and demand our governments pay attention and address these environmental concerns and impacts,  - blaming U2 for the world's ails is a bit misplaced.  Not entirely but I believe, more than a little. 

And until or unless we as individuals start to change both our mindset and spending habits to become more conscious of where things come from and what we buy ( or waste) the effects of our consumerism and present lifestyles will continue to contribute & deplete our local natural resources and the global environment we all share.  That includes the major emissions from shipping consumer products from countries that often abuse human & workers rights so we can have "cheaper" & more products, rather than paying more for products made by local workers.

To that - There are concessions and growing pains, as well as some kind of compromise or balance.  We and U2 are taking small steps in the right direction but we all need to do more.   Does that mean we all live like paupers and only have the necessities?  No.  We share, contribute and tithe what we can, we do what we can locally & hopefully make informed and better choices and we can do this globally too if one has the means or through government. And we try to find some balance that is acceptable.  At present we have not had any "balance" and it sometimes appalls me when fans or outsiders just feel the right to more and more.  Stuff.  Shows.  More from the band b/c it is not enough.   And what are you doing for your part?  ( meaning collectively all of us) 

Ali has started EDUN - which is a relatively small but socially and globally conscious company.  Diehard U2 fans know this company although many people outside of our community & the fashion world do not.   She has mixed consumerism ( which will never die completely & shouldn't - it boosts our countries' economies), human rights, help for local African workers in their own economy and esteem, and while these clothes are shipped a long long way ( more emissions) - it addresses more issues than many companies & corporations. 

ONE/ MPH & (RED) have increased awareness for Bono's political concerns with Africa and with Corporate America, as well as with individual citizens across the globe.  The consciousness they have raised for Africa and about OUR CHOICES is quite broad and widespread.  I think that whether you agree or not with Bono's politics, his tactics or his or the band's choices, you cannot fail them that.   Fans and hopefully citizens or non-fans have an increased awareness if not just a little, of the choices they are making and whether or not that is about Africa or not, in their local communities, and the world over.  I think that's pretty commendable. 

I also think - Bono tries to find a "balance" in his choices, lifestyle and in doing more "right" than wrong.   I think he and the band are acutely aware of the opinions of their fanbase both musically and otherwise, and they try to please us as best possible.

As for your comment re:
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....big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.

First up to this point, the 360 tour has not made money.  They will make money this 4th leg.  ZOOTV did not make a lot of money nor did POP.  They make money and have made a LOT of money collectively, and while CD sales diminish, they are a big corporation.  If they made decisions strictly on the bottom line corporately, they would not have put on the kind of concert tours they have now and in past, and I feel they have tried to keep artistic and personal integrity in the decisions they have made.  They have given fans and the world much more than many bands put together, both literally and figuratively speaking.  And that is aside from any personal or corporate donations they may be making as a band or individuals of the band. 

Moreover - I can't speak for Bono but I think he's spread pretty thin as it is.  He is not perfect by far but I think he's miles ahead of the majority as far as doing his part.  The Environment is not his primary concern but he's definitely aware of it and is concerned about it.  They otherwise would NOT be buying carbon offsets to try to limit their impacts of this tour.   He concentrates on his main issues of Africa and raising awareness and consciousness  about his political issues, our global responsibility to the poor, and other important issues, I think,  both locally and in Africa.  He does that tirelessly by meeting with leaders around the world, his various organizations.   

In other words, and in relation to this thread - It is not just Bono or U2's responsibility to cure all the ails of the world or pick up our crap.  Its our responsibility and we all need to do more to make our communities and world better.  Leaving it all up to "someone else", whether gov't or cheap labourers, is the biggest cop out. 

Peace & Amen. 


Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on May 14, 2010, 09:35:48 AM
p8ru2,

Well said. Virgin Prune I appreciate your comments but I am not spending any more time trying to convince you to see a different way I think you really do believe that there is a great hypocrisy in Bono and yes, there sure is.

Funny, I never thought this great discussion would come from a post basically asking concert goers to pick up their own trash.


ok, so I would like to just toss a question out there to see what you think.

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And until or unless we as individuals start to change both our mindset and spending habits to become more conscious of where things come from and what we buy ( or waste) the effects of our consumerism and present lifestyles will continue to contribute & deplete our local natural resources and the global environment we all share. 

Someone, certainly not this lady ;P, but 'someone' could argue that we (as U2 fans) consumers could have expressed our consumer rights by refusing to go U2 concerts because we were conscious of the 360 tour's depletion of our environment.
I knew about the impact, read it and followed the stories in the papers, I am wide awake and I know all those pretty red trucks are belching forth toxins in huge amounts...I am a hypocrite too.  I am going to 3 concerts and travelling by air, super bad for the environment. 
By this argument we are all responsible for it, not just the band, if the fans so "no way I will not go", they would not sell tickets and that would have sent a huge message to U2 that the environment is important to us.
So is the environment important to us?  Nope, I would argue we totally take it for granted.

But the fact that we (society on the whole) are now actually thinking about it and questioning it shows me a huge change in perspective.  It will take us years to change our bad behaviour. I choose to change mine by making small monetary concessions like buying carbon offsets and picking up after myself.  Imagine if everybody did that?

I wonder if we will start to see the end of the huge tours like U2 puts on.  Actually come to think of it, what other bands have huge shows like U2?  Lady Gaga?  Does she have a huge production? hm.  I never thought about it like that before.


Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 15, 2010, 09:19:59 AM
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p8ru2,

Funny, I never thought this great discussion would come from a post basically asking concert goers to pick up their own trash.


ok, so I would like to just toss a question out there to see what you think.

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And until or unless we as individuals start to change both our mindset and spending habits to become more conscious of where things come from and what we buy ( or waste) the effects of our consumerism and present lifestyles will continue to contribute & deplete our local natural resources and the global environment we all share. 

Someone, certainly not this lady ;P, but 'someone' could argue that we (as U2 fans) consumers could have expressed our consumer rights by refusing to go U2 concerts because we were conscious of the 360 tour's depletion of our environment.
I knew about the impact, read it and followed the stories in the papers, I am wide awake and I know all those pretty red trucks are belching forth toxins in huge amounts...I am a hypocrite too.  I am going to 3 concerts and travelling by air, super bad for the environment. 
By this argument we are all responsible for it, not just the band, if the fans so "no way I will not go", they would not sell tickets and that would have sent a huge message to U2 that the environment is important to us.
So is the environment important to us?  Nope, I would argue we totally take it for granted.

But the fact that we (society on the whole) are now actually thinking about it and questioning it shows me a huge change in perspective.  It will take us years to change our bad behaviour. I choose to change mine by making small monetary concessions like buying carbon offsets and picking up after myself.  Imagine if everybody did that?

I wonder if we will start to see the end of the huge tours like U2 puts on.  Actually come to think of it, what other bands have huge shows like U2?  Lady Gaga?  Does she have a huge production? hm.  I never thought about it like that before.


Heya hj - Glad you enjoyed my post & thanks.   A dialog about these kinds of things is good and thinking about things differently is even better!   :)  It may sound clichť but I do believe that everything we do has an impact, whether on ourselves, our communities or people elsewhere. 

For myself, I have always been "eco-minded" b/c I was raised that way, particularly with 'reduce, reuse, recycle', not wasting, and energy consumption.  I also live in a place ( Canada) where nature and the environment are cherished both for their beauty but also their recreation and resources.  Canada & our government is not a strong leader in Climate change emission standards, although we started Greenpeace and have many organizations and activists rallying for environmental issues.  However, I can say that my own awareness has increased 10 fold due to both maturity and my exposure to organizations like (RED), AWF, EDUN, and other charities, as well as the G8/20 conferences (that Bono has rallied), and news & information including those affecting, health, natural disasters, climate change, other environmental issues both locally and globally.   

As a result,  I think more and more about what I buy, why, how much, where it comes from, and the impacts of my actions.  I am far from perfect but like you, I try to lessen my impacts.  I try to buy locally mostly - with both food, and consumer items, including artist made items ( to support local artists & buy something unique), and have cut out all toxic pesticide use in the garden.  We compost and recycle religiously - so we have about 1 small grocery bag of garbage per week, and we rarely buy bottled water except on occasion.   I buy more and more organic and fair trade items, instead of mass produced things from China, and that supports local workers & industries, or at least fair wages and practices for products like coffee.   Sometimes items are more expensive but we buy less "stuff" and still enjoy quality goods.  When I do shop from large corporations, I take advantage of (RED) or any other charitable vehicles like GapGive, or iGive.com and Goodsearch web portals, which donate a portion of web searches or purchases to local & international charities.  Goodsearch & iGive is like Google except they donate monies from searches to the charity you pick.  Many charities and more and more shops also sell products that make great gifts that promote human rights, fair trade or other issues, and rather than buying from just a "for profit" corporation.  So it just makes sense to me to utilize these options when possible, and more and more for gifts, friends don't "need' or want more stuff, so they appreciate the thought behind such purchases. 

As for flights & U2 - I don't normally fly to see concerts and U2 but I did buy my flights for 2 concerts & bought carbon offsets.  As you know, those monies will go to "green projects" and/ or R & D.  Not ideal but better than nothing.  Some would argue that the carbon offsets are just to placate people but I think it is an inventive measure fuel and fund new technologies away from coal and Oil.   

The point is, every action and thing has a "cost" that does not end with the consumer but that can & will come back and haunt us anyway.  Its pure physics - action and reaction, and everything has its tipping point.  We've seen this on a global scale with the greed on Wall Street & fallout in the world economies, and we've seen this with fast food / processed food consumption, obesity, and animal rights.   I think we are now seeing it with over-consumption, pollution, climate change.  And the ever growing rise in cancers.   Even if you do not believe in climate change ( which I know surprisingly many do not here) - You cannot argue the pollution and garbage we make,  is a huge problem both with the oceans and overfilled landfills.  It all has to go somewhere!  Cities around the world are shipping garbage elsewhere and nobody wants other people's garbage!   

Anyway, the positive thing, is that individuals can make a difference collectively, with any issue, and awareness is a start.  Taking actions is the next step after that and for whatever you believe in.... whether that's Africa, human rights in Burma or elsewhere, the environment and its issues, animal rights or whatever.   Stand up.  Do your part. Its not "governments" or  "someone else's" responsibility to do it, clean up and fix things.     

Stand up, this is comedy
The DNA lottery may have left you smart
But can you stand up to beauty, dictator of the heart
I can stand up for hope, faith, love
But while I'm getting over certainty
Stop helping God across the road like a little old lady

Out from under your beds
C'mon ye people
Stand up for your love


 8)
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on May 17, 2010, 08:47:33 PM
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I also live in a place ( Canada) where nature and the environment are cherished both for their beauty but also their recreation and resources.  Canada & our government is not a strong leader in Climate change emission standards, although we started Greenpeace and have many organizations and activists rallying for environmental issues. 

I live in Edmonton!  Hello fellow Canadian!  I have volunteered for Greenpeace here a couple of years ago. Small world!
Being in Alberta and being environmentally conscious may sound like a contradiction to a lot of people, but there are a lot of Albertans who are worried about the tar sands and the environmental impact.  Can't get the politicians to listen they are very worried about the impact on our economy, same old story.  Very frustrating.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 18, 2010, 08:55:44 AM
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I also live in a place ( Canada) where nature and the environment are cherished both for their beauty but also their recreation and resources.  Canada & our government is not a strong leader in Climate change emission standards, although we started Greenpeace and have many organizations and activists rallying for environmental issues. 

I live in Edmonton!  Hello fellow Canadian!  I have volunteered for Greenpeace here a couple of years ago. Small world!
Being in Alberta and being environmentally conscious may sound like a contradiction to a lot of people, but there are a lot of Albertans who are worried about the tar sands and the environmental impact.  Can't get the politicians to listen they are very worried about the impact on our economy, same old story.  Very frustrating.

Heya hj!  Hello to you too (!!!)  Cool that you volunteered for Greenpeace and yes, its a contradiction or... you're in the minority in AB.  ( Alberta not Achtung Baby!  ;D LOL).  I'm glad to hear lots of Albertans are concerned about it and the environmental impacts. 

Unfortunately Harper is from AB and irregardless the Oil & Gas industries are so powerful, just as in Texas & previously with GW at the helm.  Its the reason there's less tax in AB and for the overall prosperity of the province, and Harper refuses to even consider any alternatives, let alone set any environmental standards.  The Tar Sands obviously provide a lot of jobs across Canada too but its literally such a 'dirty' process to extract the oil, and there's no incentive to find alternative methods or technologies.  I can only hope that other countries, NGOs, and the oppositions at the G8/G20 summit next month, will pressure Harper's gov't to do better.  I'm doubtful but hope he'll budge an inch. 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 20, 2010, 02:22:34 AM
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First of all, I go away for a while and I see everything in here is status quo with heated debates!!  LOL.   :D And near thread derailment!   ::)

@birdlover -
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P8, shortly after the concert I read it  somewhere that the homeless came in a grabbed all the 'furniture'.It could have been in my local paper (I'm in Wisconsin) or online, but I know I read it and felt better about all the junk going to good use.
I'll be there again this July, GA...are you going again?


- Thanks for the reply and that's great.  I won't be in CHI 2010 unless plans change.  Could happen but probably out of my budget.  I'm going to DEN instead.  8)

I also agree with you and some other fans here, that leaving garbage & crap for others to clean up b/c there are hired staff/ workers is crazy.  Passing the buck ( and the "labor" on) is irresponsible and selfish if not arrogant.  Sure, its the workers "job" and they are paid laborers but we are all "guests" of sorts to both the stadium and its grounds.  Its not the "environment" or "nature" per se, as some here say - its an urban environment that we live in and share.  We should take pride and care with both. 

Another analogy is - Would you go for dinner at your mother's or friends and leave dishes and garbage all over their home?  Sure, Mom or your friends can pick up after you and will but its a selfish, inconsiderate, entitled and crappy attitude to have. 

@ briscotechque - LMFAO!   :D :D :D   You always bring levity and I love you for that! 
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But the food vendors just go around at the end of the show, pick up all the sh**e and re-sell it at the following night's concert.
By cleaning it up you are depriving food catering staff of their livlihood.
You bunch of insensitive treehuggers.
FILL A BURRITO - DROP MORE RUBBISH

@virginprunes or whoever you are ( I have an idea) - You've a right to your opinions as this is a forum.  It would seem however, that you post enough forceful opinions repeatedly, even within a thread, that it annoys most members.   Discussing the pros or cons of the band is fine and can be either intellectually stimulating or food for thought.   Hammering your opinion down doesn't prove a point.  It only further annoys.   

To address your points ( truncated here): 

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I see what you mean - but this is a forum for discussing something. I have some positive things to say about the band and some negative things. Although most of the negativity comes from U2 over the past 8 years or so. I, like a lot of people, think bono in particular is a bit offensive. That doesn't stop me having an opinion and caring about a band I once loved. Equally, you may not agree with my opinions and I may not agree with yours but there may be small amounts of inspiration to be gained from even the most negative posts.

.....'Never mind the fact that the first people to suffer because of global warming will be developing countries. Or that Greece is on the verge of collapse, the euro is in turmoil, the world economy almost collapsed, the sea levels are slowly rising and we're all going to fry. Or that the UK and America are in a dangerous war they can't win - and the world is running out of oil.

But as long as U2 get to put on a big show with a dumb stage set and make loads of money, that's fine.

.....it's really down to the government and scientific communities to come up with effective solutions' - I couldn't agree less. Governments have a rich history of doing exactly... nothing - witness the last 'earth summit' or whatever it was called. Ignorant bureaucrats arguing amongst themselves. And here we are, nothing changes, nothing ever will. The world is on a crash course to a huge environmental catastrophe. As the saying goes, 'the personal is the political' - every one of us has a responsibility to change things.

Carbon offsets are a massive cop out and just move responsibility from one place to another. As one scientist said on the radio the other day, 'the only way to limit carbon is to consume less'. By consume he meant fossil fuels, products etc.

U2 may some marketing waffle on their website about offsetting carbon, but is anyone really niave to believe bono and his chums lead a carbon neutral life style? Or the huge footprint from 360 can be offset?

The point is, there are ways of living, touring, etc etc that are well though out. To say it isn't everyone's responsibility is dangerous.

@virginprunes - You might be surprised that I somewhat agree with you.   in part.  Not totally but in large part.   I do hear what you are saying about U2's own responsibility, your opinions on carbon offsets & the environment, and the effects on Africa.  And how you see that hypocritical perhaps as a lack of integrity.  I hear you on that. 

The 360 tour does appear outright gluttonous & has a massive impact on the environment with its emissions etc, notwithstanding the travel by band and all the fans who travel to their concerts as well as the manufacture of T-shirts and memorabilia mainly imported ( T-shirts are from Mexico).  Others here have noted that U2 have purchased carbon offsets on this tour and likely only a small fraction of fans have done this too.  Much more needs to be done.  Definitely.

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, the environmental problems we face globally, are ALL of our responsibility and including with our governmental  leaders and ourselves individually.   Not either or but BOTH.  N. America in particular ( Canada & US) and likely Australia as well, as well as the fast developing countries & emitters of China and India - are the biggest emitters.    N. America in particular ( Canada & US) but the US primarily are the biggest consumers of the world, by far.  Our staunch sense of entitlement,  our consumerism and over-consumption, has been insatiable and even in comparison with Europe and the UK.  Bigger houses, faster cars, more things many which are frivolous, and ALOT of waste & garbage. 

As an ironic note here:  We are all using computers here to discuss these issues on the forum.  Fans having frivolous fun to serious discussions.  You are using a computer as are all of us.  That takes tangible energy ( read: emission impacts) and the CDs, DVD's concerts etc, and even downloading has an impact.  Is that worthy of emissions & impact or not?  What's an acceptable level? 

So until many more of us around the globe STAND UP and demand our governments pay attention and address these environmental concerns and impacts,  - blaming U2 for the world's ails is a bit misplaced.  Not entirely but I believe, more than a little. 

And until or unless we as individuals start to change both our mindset and spending habits to become more conscious of where things come from and what we buy ( or waste) the effects of our consumerism and present lifestyles will continue to contribute & deplete our local natural resources and the global environment we all share.  That includes the major emissions from shipping consumer products from countries that often abuse human & workers rights so we can have "cheaper" & more products, rather than paying more for products made by local workers.

To that - There are concessions and growing pains, as well as some kind of compromise or balance.  We and U2 are taking small steps in the right direction but we all need to do more.   Does that mean we all live like paupers and only have the necessities?  No.  We share, contribute and tithe what we can, we do what we can locally & hopefully make informed and better choices and we can do this globally too if one has the means or through government. And we try to find some balance that is acceptable.  At present we have not had any "balance" and it sometimes appalls me when fans or outsiders just feel the right to more and more.  Stuff.  Shows.  More from the band b/c it is not enough.   And what are you doing for your part?  ( meaning collectively all of us) 

Ali has started EDUN - which is a relatively small but socially and globally conscious company.  Diehard U2 fans know this company although many people outside of our community & the fashion world do not.   She has mixed consumerism ( which will never die completely & shouldn't - it boosts our countries' economies), human rights, help for local African workers in their own economy and esteem, and while these clothes are shipped a long long way ( more emissions) - it addresses more issues than many companies & corporations. 

ONE/ MPH & (RED) have increased awareness for Bono's political concerns with Africa and with Corporate America, as well as with individual citizens across the globe.  The consciousness they have raised for Africa and about OUR CHOICES is quite broad and widespread.  I think that whether you agree or not with Bono's politics, his tactics or his or the band's choices, you cannot fail them that.   Fans and hopefully citizens or non-fans have an increased awareness if not just a little, of the choices they are making and whether or not that is about Africa or not, in their local communities, and the world over.  I think that's pretty commendable. 

I also think - Bono tries to find a "balance" in his choices, lifestyle and in doing more "right" than wrong.   I think he and the band are acutely aware of the opinions of their fanbase both musically and otherwise, and they try to please us as best possible.

As for your comment re:
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....big bloated corporation making fantastic amounts of money. bono seems to have an opinion on everything but his own irresponsibility.

First up to this point, the 360 tour has not made money.  They will make money this 4th leg.  ZOOTV did not make a lot of money nor did POP.  They make money and have made a LOT of money collectively, and while CD sales diminish, they are a big corporation.  If they made decisions strictly on the bottom line corporately, they would not have put on the kind of concert tours they have now and in past, and I feel they have tried to keep artistic and personal integrity in the decisions they have made.  They have given fans and the world much more than many bands put together, both literally and figuratively speaking.  And that is aside from any personal or corporate donations they may be making as a band or individuals of the band. 

Moreover - I can't speak for Bono but I think he's spread pretty thin as it is.  He is not perfect by far but I think he's miles ahead of the majority as far as doing his part.  The Environment is not his primary concern but he's definitely aware of it and is concerned about it.  They otherwise would NOT be buying carbon offsets to try to limit their impacts of this tour.   He concentrates on his main issues of Africa and raising awareness and consciousness  about his political issues, our global responsibility to the poor, and other important issues, I think,  both locally and in Africa.  He does that tirelessly by meeting with leaders around the world, his various organizations.   

In other words, and in relation to this thread - It is not just Bono or U2's responsibility to cure all the ails of the world or pick up our crap.  Its our responsibility and we all need to do more to make our communities and world better.  Leaving it all up to "someone else", whether gov't or cheap labourers, is the biggest cop out. 

Peace & Amen. 




Well, thank you for an intelligent post - and a well thought out post. Preferable to the knee jerk 'how dare anyone critisise bono' reactions most people post on here.

I agree with you - it's a fantastically complex thing. But, complexity aside, the principle is the same. 1 person, a small company, a huge corporation - everyone's contribution is important to the environment.

In terms of U2, I'm not critisising them for being in a band, touring the world, flying in private jets etc. Hell, I'd do that if I could!!!! Wouldn't you? What sticks in my throat and a lot of other people's throats is, as usual, bono. The ludicrous idea of him campaigning for Africa, while leading a lifestyle the directly contributes towards its increasing problems is, er, ludicrous. Global warming is a threat that will pick off developing countries way before it picks off bono in his huge house in green and pleasant Ireland.

So, the question remains: What would you have bono do? Nothing?

bono doesn't have to do nothing - campaigning for Africa is fantastic. But what u2 should be doing is playing their part. Carbon offsets as described earlier just shift responsibility. bono isn't an easy target because he's an idiot - or a fraud. He's an easy target because he come across as being a self serving fool. When I was growing up, U2 were my favourite band - one of the reasons was that they seemed to have integrity. I loved their Amnesty International work. And Greenpeace. bono was a role model for me.

I love U2's music - but I can't stand bono. Same with lots of other people.

Your point about the 360 tour seems to imply that everything has to get bigger to survive. U2 don't have to cart 3 stages around the world with a cast of thousands, racking up unbelievable amounts of air miles. Wouldn't it be a brilliant show of 'artistic integrity' if for once they actually put 'integrity' before the bottom line of a huge profit?


Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: StrongGirl on May 20, 2010, 11:57:06 AM
Interesting point...love U2's music but can't stand Bono. I am sure lots of fans feel this way. But for me, I just couldn't love a band if I didn't like the people in the band beyond just the music. Now of course, I don't know them personally. I understand that. It is just how I feel about it. I consider their music to be a big part of who they are. It is like an artist with his paintings. To me, it is a window to their soul.

Oh well,  I am drifting and should get back on topic.  :D
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 20, 2010, 12:38:54 PM
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Interesting point...love U2's music but can't stand Bono. I am sure lots of fans feel this way. But for me, I just couldn't love a band if I didn't like the people in the band beyond just the music. Now of course, I don't know them personally. I understand that. It is just how I feel about it. I consider their music to be a big part of who they are. It is like an artist with his paintings. To me, it is a window to their soul.

Oh well,  I am drifting and should get back on topic.  :D

Well, I hear that. And I would agree with you when you say their music is a part of who they are. And that's why I used to love them.

But, for whatever reason, they used to walk it like they talk it. Now, they have become so divorced from reality that their music stops meaning anything. For me anyway.

A few people here have commented on how negative my posts are - fair enough. But I feel negative about a band I used to love. But interested enough to post onto the forum.

Anyway, this isn't about me - if people talk about the environment then that's got to be a good thing.

The environment is the single biggest threat to all life forms. Not AIDS, not terrorism, not hunger. Bono take note - if you really care, stop doing what you're doing. Be responsible. Personal sacrifice is the only way this problem is going to get solved. We don't need another massive tour. Make lovely music like you used to - who cares about daft stage sets and private jets.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: StrongGirl on May 20, 2010, 01:37:28 PM
You make some very valid points. As much as I still love them, I won' t lie . It left a very bad taste in my mouth when they asked for $ 100.00 for the new Rose Bowl DVD. 

Yes, it is very important to talk and care about the environment. Absolutely!
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: Tumbling Dice on May 20, 2010, 01:55:09 PM
The Environment is a very contentious issue.  For instance, scientists are divided in opinion on the extent of global warming and they know more than me. ???


Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 21, 2010, 10:17:38 AM
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The Environment is a very contentious issue.  For instance, scientists are divided in opinion on the extent of global warming and they know more than me. ???




Most scientists agree global warming is a significant threat to human life. The only one's that don't are motivated by politics and money. Same as it ever was.

We ignore it at our peril.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: hj on May 21, 2010, 10:29:57 AM
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You make some very valid points. As much as I still love them, I won' t lie . It left a very bad taste in my mouth when they asked for $ 100.00 for the new Rose Bowl DVD. 

Me too.  I will not be buying it. 
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: u2pinstripes on May 21, 2010, 10:34:25 AM
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The Environment is a very contentious issue.  For instance, scientists are divided in opinion on the extent of global warming and they know more than me. ???




Most scientists agree global warming is a significant threat to human life. The only one's that don't are motivated by politics and money. Same as it ever was.

We ignore it at our peril.

False.  A scientist actually just released a report saying that global cooling is coming.  And talk about politics and money, do you understand how much money Al Gore makes off of global warming??  He's about to become a BILLIONAIRE off of this.  And his film has six or seven major fallacies.  Most scientists I have met who have nothing to gain or lose from this situation say that global warming is just the Earth going through cycles.  We have minimal affect on it.  Anyway..
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: virgin_prune on May 21, 2010, 11:59:45 AM
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The Environment is a very contentious issue.  For instance, scientists are divided in opinion on the extent of global warming and they know more than me. ???




c The only one's that don't are motivated by politics and money. Same as it ever was.

We ignore it at our peril.

False.  A scientist actually just released a report saying that global cooling is coming.  And talk about politics and money, do you understand how much money Al Gore makes off of global warming??  He's about to become a BILLIONAIRE off of this.  And his film has six or seven major fallacies.  Most scientists I have met who have nothing to gain or lose from this situation say that global warming is just the Earth going through cycles.  We have minimal affect on it.  Anyway..

'False'? Are you saying 'false' because 1 scientist released a report? So what if Al Gore is making money? I couldn't care less.

I feel sure you have met many leading scientists. However it is generally accepted that the world is heating up, ice caps are melting, the sea is becoming more acidic and we are ruining our natural environment.

But maybe you are right and everyone else's statements are 'false' - let's hope so.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: DGordon1 on May 21, 2010, 03:53:29 PM
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The Environment is a very contentious issue.  For instance, scientists are divided in opinion on the extent of global warming and they know more than me. ???




Most scientists agree global warming is a significant threat to human life. The only one's that don't are motivated by politics and money. Same as it ever was.

We ignore it at our peril.

False.  A scientist actually just released a report saying that global cooling is coming.  And talk about politics and money, do you understand how much money Al Gore makes off of global warming??  He's about to become a BILLIONAIRE off of this.  And his film has six or seven major fallacies.  Most scientists I have met who have nothing to gain or lose from this situation say that global warming is just the Earth going through cycles.  We have minimal affect on it.  Anyway..

It's not false to say that most scientists agree that global warming is a serious problem. That's not to say there's uncertainty within the scientific community, there is. None of us know either way so lets not pretend we do. I would say that it can't be good for the environment to pump CO2 and nitrates into the atmosphere. I'm not going to have a go at Bono for it, because we're all guilty of damaging the environment.
Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 21, 2010, 04:02:17 PM
"Global Warming" is a misnomer...  ::)  Its more accurately "climate change" with severe swings in weather (increased severity of storms, droughts, flooding heatwaves, oceanic temp rises etc) and the effects that has on environment, food, water, wildlife, insects,  and populations ( "us").  

Anyway, back on topic - both with immediate urban environments, U2 and fans...  :)

Title: Re: The Clean Concert Pledge
Post by: p8ru2 on May 21, 2010, 05:14:16 PM
@virginprunes...

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.....But, for whatever reason, they used to walk it like they talk it. Now, they have become so divorced from reality that their music stops meaning anything. For me anyway.

....The environment is the single biggest threat to all life forms. Not AIDS, not terrorism, not hunger. Bono take note - if you really care, stop doing what you're doing. Be responsible. Personal sacrifice is the only way this problem is going to get solved. We don't need another massive tour. Make lovely music like you used to - who cares about daft stage sets and private jets.

Sorry you are so disenchanted and divorced from U2.   I agree with this ( highlighted portion) in part, and to individuals, fans, Bono and the band.  Consciousness and responsibility to improve and maintain our immediate and global environment & communities is all of our responsibilities and not just some;  and I'd say, whether or not Climate change is "real" or not ( which imo is real).  We can all do better including Bono & Co.  While the band has a long affiliation in supporting Greenpeace, they do fall short on being more outwardly/ publicly environmentally minded, except for the carbon credits.   

That said, I disagree however, with Bono or the band being "so divorced from reality".  I think that is incorrect.  I think Bono ( and the band) are artists/ musicians first and foremost.  He is also a celebrity with alot of clout and very public socio-political activism for Africa,  along with all the organizations that have sprung from that.  And his activism has inspired and changed the lives of many both fans, non-fans and the health and lives of many Africans.  So that is hardly "divorced from reality".    It is just not covering the environment, which is as you say, is more critical and will affect Africans and other equatorial countries and continents most. 

In his defence, I'd say that Bono is overstretched as it is with his music, businesses and activism.  He and the band have an already wide array of charities and causes, as well as their music and business interests;   and he retains more credibility in sticking with a more limited scope of public activism ( Africa) than if he were to spread himself thinner and thinner.   Or if he were to jump ship and focus primarily on the environment.   

I don't know if as a band of individuals, whether or not the all members can be expected to "do right" by everything and every cause....  I think Bono and the band have done a pretty great job and better than most bands and individuals in doing "good" and to try to make a difference, to the lives of many and both musically, spiritually and politically.  And they've raised alot of awareness not just in their causes and charities but for others as well ( if these boards are any indication).    Their focus is just not the environment, at least not publicly in a big way ( since Sellafield) and we don't know about privately.   Ali's EDUN ( which Bono has reportedly invested in) does promote sustainability with organic farming & crops (raw sources), jobs and commerce in Africa for export, so it is quite conscious & responsible although exports = emissions.  And Edge has has difficulties with his Malibu development ( business and pleasure),  even though he has reportedly taken environmental concerns into consideration. 

In their defense re: comments about moneymaking & big tours... While they are definitely "corporate",  are a business, and have made tons of money in their 30+years in the music industry,  I feel that they have always been a band and artists first and foremost.   I think they try to be very conscious and conscientious to please fans as well as themselves creatively & otherwise.   And they seem to try to balance their business interests on top of that.  They've always put the music, shows and fans first, well, except for the taxation issue.

Contrary to some statements here,  I don't think the band has put as much thought to the costs of touring as some here say, and whether that be environmentally or fiscally speaking... nor have they been purely about "money" or "greed".   (eg) ZOOTV tour, POP,  and 360.   Those tours indicate that they've been 'dreaming big and out loud' both in concept, artistry, scale and technologies, to present and compliment their music as well as in wanting to please both themselves and fans.   And less with concerns about cost and profits, at least until after the tours.   

ZOOTV did not make a ton of money but was a great success with fans, the public, and music industry.  POP was pretty well bust and even bigger.   Those stadium tours were and are huge costly productions that did not rake in the dough as many think but rather focused on both the music, concept and spectacle.   And those tours have gained massive praise from most diehards and more casual or non-fans.  360 is the only big stadium tour that is slated to make a lot of money and only starting this next leg ( if it does indeed start).   

Also, until recently, touring was a means to promote bands and album sales whereas now, touring is now the primary mode of money-making for bands, especially established bands, and not recorded media.   The band's increased interest  in investing in & using new technologies in shows from ZOOTV onwards is notable, including the smaller Elevation & Vertigo staging & lighting, and the expanding video tunnel for 360.   They offer simple Cds but CD sales have been dying due to internet downloading & trading, and digital purchases are down significantly compared to pre-digital times.  In order to make money and be able to put on elaborate tours,  they offer a variety of price points to fans to allow the broadest base to attend, and these are overall cheaper than many similar established bands.  And like many established bands, they are now offering a variety of media in "deluxe" or "collector" editions, as well as live streaming & fanclub to supplement the losing battle with hard media alone.  They're options that may make up for the losses in other areas.    They supported iPod then Blackberry technologies and in doing so, they have tapped into new markets & fan bases and likely made investments in those companies.  Their Elevation Corp has also really chased new technologies and often at great financial loss ( Palm etc).

Now that's not to say they haven't made money or to make excuses either.   I'm just thinking out loud as to why they chose to put on a big massive tour like this, and how difficult it may be to balance all the interests of the 4 + 1 members of U2, which is pretty varied and extensive as is.   I just don't know whether or not its possible for an individual, even Bono,  to cover all bases to be a complete "saint" and also to be taken seriously and credibly.  That may be asking too much.  Same with "corporate U2".   Those are hard balances to strike, that's for sure, and they are by far not perfect & have made mistakes.  Perhaps given recent events, he's pushed himself too far and too thin already (?)