@U2 Forum

U2 => General U2 Discussion => Topic started by: Smee on December 18, 2010, 04:31:16 PM

Title: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Smee on December 18, 2010, 04:31:16 PM
Ok....here goes...having attended the show, having watched it on DVD and having listened to bootlegs of the shows......I think i rate the 360 tour at the bottom of the pile of all tours since War. There just seems to be something missing in the performances and am not sure i can put it into words. Maybe it just lacks the magic of previous tours.
Now dont try and patronise me that i dont know what im talking about, As av been listening to the band virtually every day for the last 29 yrs. I know their music inside out and love the band as much as anyone and av seen every tour since UF.....and most importantly of all...i KNOW how i feel. So i feel i am qualified to make that call. Strange bit is, I really like NLOTH album.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 18, 2010, 04:41:06 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ok....here goes...having attended the show, having watched it on DVD and having listened to bootlegs of the shows......I think i rate the 360 tour at the bottom of the pile of all tours since War. There just seems to be something missing in the performances and am not sure i can put it into words. Maybe it just lacks the magic of previous tours.
Now dont try and patronise me that i dont know what im talking about, As av been listening to the band virtually every day for the last 29 yrs. I know their music inside out and love the band as much as anyone and av seen every tour since UF.....and most importantly of all...i KNOW how i feel. So i feel i am qualified to make that call. Strange bit is, I really like NLOTH album.

I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way.  And I too, really like the NLOTH album.

Having seen many Rolling Stones shows of the last 20 years on video, DVD, and in person, I think that U2 have become the new Rolling Stones.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: InThisHeartland on December 18, 2010, 04:44:43 PM
you guys gotta be more specific. ive only seen u2 once live (on 360), so im kinda lost here.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 18, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
you guys gotta be more specific. ive only seen u2 once live (on 360), so im kinda lost here.

It lacks SOUL.  It seems forced, when in the past U2 shows just had soul.

I think the set design lacks any real character.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: JTBaby on December 18, 2010, 04:48:25 PM
I like NLOTH better than the last 2 albums, but tour wise they were both better. Well, maybe with the exceptions of when they were playing rubbish like Miracle Drug or Stuck in a moment.

I know the show I saw at the Rose Bowl wasn't the worst I've seen since the War tour. It was maybe the worst ever.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Smee on December 18, 2010, 04:50:39 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
you guys gotta be more specific. ive only seen u2 once live (on 360), so im kinda lost here.
Basically....Im saying that i rate the 360 tour as the poorest u2 has done since early 80's! Can i just say....I COULDNT GIVE TWO HOOTS ABOUT THE 360 SET UP...it does nothing for me. Zoo Tv was amazing, as was Popmart, the visuals added to the experience.....something i feel didnt work on 360 tour. But, the bottom line is....i go to see u2 to hear the music, if they can enhance the experience, more power to them, but ad be happy with just a performance
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 18, 2010, 05:41:36 PM
This is the first time since the JT Tour that I haven't switched from listening to the newest album to listening to bootlegs of the concerts as soon as I could locate them. As it is, I am listening to my NLOTH playlist all the time, and don't care that much about listening to the 360 shows.

It's weird, I can't really explain it, either. Maybe it's that I can't bear to hear another rendition of ISHF, WOWY, or Beautiful Day.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: eddyjedi on December 18, 2010, 05:43:28 PM
I can't really say having only seen Vertigo and 360, I do think this is better than Vertigo, they have more hunger now than they did then, I find. I think the setup possibly gets in the way of performance though, I don't find it as intimate as say Elevation.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 18, 2010, 09:12:18 PM
I was only able to see a single show last year; looking forward to 2 shows in Montreal next year.  Here's my take.  The stage is HUGE.  It seems incongruous with the music and the meaning.  The band is tiny, and it's different even from the huge Pop set up.  On the DVD, the camera can make it seem more appropriate with zoom-ins and cropping and whatnot.  But from my vantage point in the GA, the screens were too high to see but the band was too far away to see also.

Keep in mind, NLOTH is my least favorite U2 album.  Not sure if it's a coincidence that the tour seems to be completely separated from the music and the band.  I don't hate it, but it just doesn't work well, and U2 always does what feels right -- and we feel it.  But not this time.  I'm hoping the Montreal shows will feel better, but it won't be great.  I saw both of the last two tours and enjoyed them a heck of a lot.

My last thought.  I don't think U2 was able to really STICK either the album or the tour.  They shot for something and for once it just didn't work out.  They missed the mark.  I hope this drives them to really follow their guts next time.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: hurricane hugo on December 18, 2010, 09:55:16 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
you guys gotta be more specific. ive only seen u2 once live (on 360), so im kinda lost here.
Basically....Im saying that i rate the 360 tour as the poorest u2 has done since early 80's! Can i just say....I COULDNT GIVE TWO HOOTS ABOUT THE 360 SET UP...it does nothing for me. Zoo Tv was amazing, as was Popmart, the visuals added to the experience.....something i feel didnt work on 360 tour. But, the bottom line is....i go to see u2 to hear the music, if they can enhance the experience, more power to them, but ad be happy with just a performance

maybe the problem is you.

#@!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Chip on December 18, 2010, 10:06:38 PM
A very different take:

360 DC was my third U2 concert (after Popmart DC and Elevation DC), and I thought it was easily the best. Considering that my wife and I were near the back of the stage setup (thanks to Ticketmaster's inaccurate depiction online of the stage setup, at least on the first day of u2.com's presale tickets [I hope they corrected it later]), the intimacy was astonishing and powerful. It was my wife's first U2 concert and she also felt that it was a very intimate concert.

Popmart, by contrast, was about as far from intimate as you can get. Maybe that's because a friend and I were on the back left of the stadium near the sound box, and we heard many squawks throughout the evening. Because we couldn't make out what Bono was saying, we never understood his explanation about how the previous night's rain had severely strained the "tele." Regardless, from where we were, you simply could not make out most of the visuals. I'd say over half of them appeared from that area to be vague, amorphous blobs. It was even worse when there were no visuals at all during the first encore, as from that side of the stadium, the extended stage was too far off. While it may simply have been a bad night, I've also seen many Popmart videos since then and am struck how few shots are taken from the back left of the stadiums, while there are usually quite a few from the back right (and if you were on the right side of the stadium, you were near the extended stage).

Elevation, to swing back to the opposite pole, was amazing, and the power of U2 in arenas cannot be underestimated. Still, I personally prefer stadium shows where U2 give their visual imagination full flight. And there were so many wonderful things that the Rose Bowl DVD did not pick up: the "light bulb" on top of the "spaceship" lighting up and casting light all across the stadium just as Bono sang "Your love was a lightbulb hanging over my head" in "Ultraviolet" (the timing was impeccable); the beauty of The Unforgettable Fire's space imagery; the incredibly ethereal "Your Blue Room" with the imagery of earth clearly connoting our planet as God's "blue room." There was soul in abundance.

Having said that, there were two significant negatives. First, most of the NLOTH songs were walked through (I'd say the only exceptions were a strong "Breathe" and "Moment of Surrender") and didn't stand out. I gather that by this time the band was feeling the weight of peoples' lack of love for the NLOTH songs. We didn't get "Unknown Caller" or the title track. Sadly, this had been true at DC Popmart as well. Then, only a month into the tour, "Do You Feel Loved" had already been dropped, "If You Wear That Velvet Dress" was already down to an unsatisfying two minutes, and "If God Will Send His Angels" had already been chopped by a third, with the concert version ending with the bridge. The band also then lacked conviction concerning its full band version of "Staring at the Sun." Both concerts illustrate how there are few things worse than a band losing confidence in its new songs.

The other negative is harder to describe. There was a very different feel because on social issues, this night proved to be almost a victory lap for Bono's development work and so, by extension, U2's causes. Bono was thanking people (particularly politicians) for their work with ONE, and the sense was that Bono's work had reached a plateau. It wasn't over yet, but there were no stirring calls to continue, more of a satisfied look back from the top of one hill. And that gave off a very different vibe from the U2 that is always striving for greater heights. A sense of satisfaction pervaded instead of a sense of restlessness that I'd say is so critical to U2.
  
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Smee on December 19, 2010, 03:46:26 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

maybe the problem is you.

#@!

Evidently not....seems to be quite a few in agreement with me here. As i say...i feel am well placed to make that call. I havent jumped to this conclusion, all in all, av tken a year and a half to settle things in my mind. I just cant see me rushing to stick on the 360 dvd or any 360 bootlegs in a hurry. The shows are lacking badly. Still listen to NLOTH plenty tho :)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: hurricane hugo on December 19, 2010, 09:29:13 AM
did the band change, or did you change?

#@!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 19, 2010, 09:35:01 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
did the band change, or did you change?

#@!

Probably both.

Why do you feel the need to dismiss the way Smee feels just because you evidently don't agree with him? Talk about defensive, and it's not even you he's criticizing!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 19, 2010, 09:42:52 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ok....here goes...having attended the show, having watched it on DVD and having listened to bootlegs of the shows......I think i rate the 360 tour at the bottom of the pile of all tours since War. There just seems to be something missing in the performances and am not sure i can put it into words. Maybe it just lacks the magic of previous tours.
Now dont try and patronise me that i dont know what im talking about, As av been listening to the band virtually every day for the last 29 yrs. I know their music inside out and love the band as much as anyone and av seen every tour since UF.....and most importantly of all...i KNOW how i feel. So i feel i am qualified to make that call. Strange bit is, I really like NLOTH album.

I agree - 360 (270) is U2 by numbers. Literally, being called 360 (270).

I've seen every tour since the UF and 360 left me cold - that doesn't mean someone who is new to U2 won't enjoy 360 - but for me, compared with previous tours, it doesn't work. Even Vertigo worked although the album was pretty flat. 360 (270) is one big stage set and not much else... for me, NLOTH isn't a good record. But that's not why the tour is a bit lame. I would much rather they started with the title track or Breathe. But, as Edge said, they're not really touring that album any more, and it shows.

Which is why SOME people have called it a Greatest Hits Tour...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: DGordon1 on December 19, 2010, 09:49:17 AM
Well the 260 show was the first U2 gig I've seen because the Vertigo tour came at a bad time for me to attend. So naturally, I'm a bit biased. But from the footage I've seen of this tour and the last 2; this one generally has the upper hand. A big plus for me is Bono's voice on this tour - he's really sounding great after the largely lacklustre Vertigo tour vocals. The whole band are playing with a lot of energy too. After seeing the way Ultraviolet, MoS, Crazy Tonight etc have been played this tour; I really don't understand this perceived lack of energy some people have been talking about. Plus, the new songs add intrigue to proceedings and show the band is still taking risks. Any non U2-nuts that I've come across seem to think it's a pretty damn special show (like 90% of reviews I've read). The only thing that I feel the tour is lacking is variation in the setlists. But in fairness, this is the first tour I've been following on a show-by-show basis; and static setlists stick out more these days when you can find it out with just a couple of clicks. I don't know, it just seems like the band has a significant proportion of its long-time fanbase who look at everything they do nowadays with a pessimistic outlook. Without trying to sound rude, I have the theory that as many of the band's fans are middle-aged, they become a bit close-minded to what they should be doing. I just imagine some people picking up a new U2 album and getting ready to hate it, instead of hoping for something they'll like. Of course this is a huge sweeping generalization and it only applies to some long-term fans, but there are reasons why this tour is having great success with fans and critics alike.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
I agree with Smee on this. I didn't get a ticket for 360°precisely cause it felt very different and "phoned in" to previous tours in a watered down way.
It lacked intensity and intent and the special atmosphere I only felt at U2 shows. I saw them on Elevation and Vertigo, and they felt right both in person and on bootlegs. I also like NLOTH much better to other two albums, particularly ATYCLB which I utterly dislike. As it's been said before, the old staples were played in a rather lackluster fashion, so they didn't gel with the more intense new material.

360° felt too much like "playtime nursery" from the first bootlegged clips, and both the Sheffield broadcast and Rose Bowl turned me off of them.
 The 2010 legs started out feeling like more of the same, but the setlists became more fun and the playing too, so while I'm still not interested in going to see them, I appreciate the improvement.

They have to play whatever they play with commitment and drive, I guess that's the one rule with U2.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: LittleDany on December 19, 2010, 10:14:16 AM
I have just seen Popmart and 360. In Popmart I was like what...I think 8th row from stage, Adams side. I felt horribly far away, didn't see and feel anything. Today I don't remember the show, just a few flashing pictures...

In 360 I was sitting Edges side on the lower ranks. I saw the whole stage, saw the screens, felt the music (the PA was bad but who cares, still the show was great). So I feel the other way round.

But I haven't seen other tours - unfortunately. I wish I had. But I still keep listening to a lot of 360 bootlegs and I love them. I really like the setlists, the stage setup. Yes it is huge and if they do another Germany next year, I know I won't see the screen, when standing in the inner circle. But I'm fine with that.

Maybe that's the point about 360. The stage is designed to make the fans in the big round feel closer to the band. That worked for me. Maybe it's just the problem of the inner circle, that you have a chance to come close to the stage, but if you're stuck in the middle of it, you don't reach them in any way. So maybe it just doesn't work for GA or the inner circle. I cannot imagine to stand at the far end of GA in a big stadium on 360. That wouldn't work for me.

I don't think it's their worst tour or the like. I think it's  just a different way and it doesn't work for all of us the same way. Musically? They're still U2. My two cents.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 19, 2010, 11:46:38 AM
To be honest, I didn't think Vertigo was that great, either.  A mate of mine that is a long standing U2 fan saw Vertigo in Cardiff and wasn't overly impressed.

I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I think Elevation was the last truly great U2 show and tour.  It conveyed soul and warmth that wasn't entirely down to the smaller venue, although whenever I hear that U2 are playing stadiums it always puts me off.  The new songs from ATYCLB on Elevation weren't as good as the new songs from NLOTH IMHO, and so I can't blame the songs from NLOTH for my being unimpressed by 360.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 19, 2010, 11:57:29 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?

This feels exactly like the Vertigo tour a few years go. Something's missing, they're not inspired etc...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 19, 2010, 12:02:24 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?

This feels exactly like the Vertigo tour a few years go. Something's missing, they're not inspired etc...

Well, all I can say is that I'm pi**ed off that I didn't see PopMart, but I couldn't care less about missing Vertigo and 360.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Well, what if it's all true? What if they weren't inspired back then and are even less so today? I wouldn't say Vertigo was a better tour than Elevation (it wasn't revolutionary, that's for sure). And apart from the early promotional appearances, 360° has been lukewarm.
Anyway it's because if they keep playing the same crowd-pleasers, it will start to look a bit too samey after a couple of decades...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?

This feels exactly like the Vertigo tour a few years go. Something's missing, they're not inspired etc...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 19, 2010, 12:35:19 PM
I thought Elevation was probably the best of the three tours, but I don't think Vertigo was far behind it at all.  I saw multiple V tours and they were great.  I felt inspiration and passion etc.  No mark missed, it was what it was supposed to be, IMO.  360?  Doesn't feel like it connects with anything - music, album, whatever.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 19, 2010, 12:38:50 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I thought Elevation was probably the best of the three tours, but I don't think Vertigo was far behind it at all.  I saw multiple V tours and they were great.  I felt inspiration and passion etc.  No mark missed, it was what it was supposed to be, IMO.  360?  Doesn't feel like it connects with anything - music, album, whatever.

I bet Bono's pre-One speech was a real passion killer. :D




Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 12:41:12 PM
Vertigo as a tour, was way too talky  on Bono's part to be honest... And they did a good job capturing it on the Chicago DVD...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 19, 2010, 01:28:01 PM
 :D Sorry y'all, I think this is one of the first places I've heard it said that Bono talking kills passion!  This is THE Bono we're talking about, right? The Irish wordsmith, poet, gab-about-town?  ;) The only times I've found Bono's talking during a concert annoying is when I can't make out what he's saying because the sound is kinda crappy, or when he goes on in another language and I can't follow.  But that's just me.

Can't wait to see what difference it will be to see 360 from way far back (to take in the whole thing) and way up close (to at least get see the guys).  It's good to hear that my feelings so far are not out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 19, 2010, 01:31:16 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
:D Sorry y'all, I think this is one of the first places I've heard it said that Bono talking kills passion!  This is THE Bono we're talking about, right? The Irish wordsmith, poet, gab-about-town?  ;) The only times I've found Bono's talking during a concert annoying is when I can't make out what he's saying because the sound is kinda crappy, or when he goes on in another language and I can't follow.  But that's just me.

Can't wait to see what difference it will be to see 360 from way far back (to take in the whole thing) and way up close (to at least get see the guys).  It's good to hear that my feelings so far are not out of the ordinary.

The only passionate speech that Bono ever made that stirred me was the '**** the Revolution', SBS speech on R&H.



 
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 01:37:36 PM
Yeah, after hearing the same stuff regurgitated (from interviews to inter-song speeches to song lyrics) for 3-4 album-cycle spans, I got bored a little.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 19, 2010, 01:52:45 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?


OK, if one must have attended a 360 show before he can have anything meaningful to say about this tour, then can we also say that unless you were there during the '80s and '90s you cannot contribute to any discussion or debate about the glory days of U2?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
:-)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: DGordon1 on December 19, 2010, 03:04:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?


OK, if one must have attended a 360 show before he can have anything meaningful to say about this tour, then can we also say that unless you were there during the '80s and '90s you cannot contribute to any discussion or debate about the glory days of U2?

There are certain things that can be discussed without actually attending the shows - setlists for example. But atmosphere and passion can only be discussed if you actually went to a show. The show I went to lacked neither passion or atmosphere. But you're right in that it applies both ways. There's just something daft about commenting on lack of energy or excitement in a tour based on youtube clips. I don't think anyone's saying the ZooTV or JT tours lacked passion.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 19, 2010, 03:56:42 PM
You are indeed right, and one can clearly see how energetic and powerful those were even across the gaping void of time and recorded vs. live compared to some of the 360 performances! The changes may have been necessary, unavoidable even, but they surely didn't improve their live performances to me.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: bonofaninaustin on December 19, 2010, 10:46:19 PM
Although I have enjoyed the 2 360 shows I have seen so far, they in no way compare to the ZooTV show I attended. But I think it may have something to do with the crowd. In a stadium, you get alot of people attending who are not true fans of the band. They only respond to the big hits and sit out the newer songs. I want to see people on their feet, waving their hands, singing along. As for the band, I think it would be impossible to have the same level of passion as you did 30 years ago. They are middle aged now and could not possibly sustain the exuberance of their youth. They have different concerns now and families to think of. Bono is still a great showman but he isn't able to sing with the forcefulness and compassion as he did in his 20s and 30s. Since I am only a few years younger than he, I understand that and am OK with it.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 20, 2010, 02:26:31 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



I haven't attended a show but I feel exactly the same way. 


Can I just state for the record I enjoy the critisisms beginning like this ?


OK, if one must have attended a 360 show before he can have anything meaningful to say about this tour, then can we also say that unless you were there during the '80s and '90s you cannot contribute to any discussion or debate about the glory days of U2?

A lot of the internet U2 fans can only, due to logical reasons, talk about the 80's tours via bootlegs/DVDs. I think the same applies even with Zoo TV.

I just think it's odd to read "I'm kicking myself for not seeing Popmart and Vertigo but I don't care for missing 360" - when you, in fact, have not seen either of those tours. Can you really judge them so accurately, based on bootlegs/DVDs ? And Youtube clips are not the same as seeing it live.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Bads316 on December 20, 2010, 03:44:46 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ok....here goes...having attended the show, having watched it on DVD and having listened to bootlegs of the shows......I think i rate the 360 tour at the bottom of the pile of all tours since War. There just seems to be something missing in the performances and am not sure i can put it into words. Maybe it just lacks the magic of previous tours.
Now dont try and patronise me that i dont know what im talking about, As av been listening to the band virtually every day for the last 29 yrs. I know their music inside out and love the band as much as anyone and av seen every tour since UF.....and most importantly of all...i KNOW how i feel. So i feel i am qualified to make that call. Strange bit is, I really like NLOTH album.

agreed 100%
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Yukona [The League of Extraordinary Bonopeople] on December 20, 2010, 04:54:29 AM
I agree 100% that U2 should stop playing their greatest hits like Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Your Blue Room and The Unforgettable Fire. Man, those songs are so totally overplayed.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 20, 2010, 05:02:51 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree 100% that U2 should stop playing their greatest hits like Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Your Blue Room and The Unforgettable Fire. Man, those songs are so totally overplayed.

 :D  :D  :D  Yeah, it is odd to hear 360 referred to as a "greatest hits tour" when they're regularly pulling out old songs that many in the crowd have never heard and brand new songs that most people have never heard.  Still, it is clear at least that 360 is not in support of a specific album.  I think that is a huge and groundbreaking thing, and a statement in and of itself.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 05:33:08 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree 100% that U2 should stop playing their greatest hits like Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Your Blue Room and The Unforgettable Fire. Man, those songs are so totally overplayed.

 :D  :D  :D  Yeah, it is odd to hear 360 referred to as a "greatest hits tour" when they're regularly pulling out old songs that many in the crowd have never heard and brand new songs that most people have never heard.  Still, it is clear at least that 360 is not in support of a specific album.  I think that is a huge and groundbreaking thing, and a statement in and of itself.

And a pointless one at that. Not much added content from the stage, just a "Look how big our spacejunk is" showiness that fits only creakily with our economically challenged times. It's probably a midlife crisis thing that they hopefully get over come the next album or the one after... 

As for the rare songs, it's entertaining but they replaced a focused batch of finished songs with semi rehearsed (sometimes poorly performed to be honest) rarities and admittedly and audibly unfinished ditties, often in a two-piece format, that might or might not resurface later.

I'm glad they're having fun, but this tour is in fact dinosaur band territory.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Bads316 on December 20, 2010, 05:51:45 AM
hahahaha - 360 is not in support of a specific album because the album was gone in the blink of an eye - this is just a desperate contingency plan, but this apparently makes U2 geniuses!

Oh wow they play some new songs that a moderate busker could master in ten minutes - this apparently makes U2 geniuses.

Yeah lets just forget 90% of the gig because it's that 10% that really matters. If it weren't for the the few obscurities (and this is the point of them) that U2 can be bothered to rehearse once a week, then a "greatest hits/singles tour" for the sake of it is what we are left with, beyond question - at the very least, it's pretty thin ice....

I don't like saying any of this, and maybe I'm just grabbing at reasons why I feel like this, I'm really glad it's not just me though - just a general observation but is seems mainly the older fans who are having issues with the tour.  I think Torino was the last time I rushed on here, anxious to see what was played, in what order, with a genuine curiosity as to how a certain song would translate live..... and that has gone.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 20, 2010, 05:54:56 AM
Does anyone think this has happened ever before, in U2's entire history?  That is, they launch an album-tour, then in essence ditch the album, leaving the tour without a foundation?  I'm really curious if there's any case to made for a precedent to 360.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: mattyk on December 20, 2010, 06:07:02 AM
Vertigo was my first time seeing U2 (twice in Sydney) and I just attended both Sydney 360 shows and I have to say that 360 killed Vertigo - more fun, more balanced setlists, more intimate, less preachy. When I saw Vertigo, for one show I was in the stands and for one I was in GA near the front (keep in mind that Vertigo was a stadium show for us). At the 360 shows, I was inner circle GA both times. For all the incessant talk of the Claw by media, fans, absolutely everyone, for me, Vertigo felt like a much more imposing show: even down the front, the stage loomed down on you (the Vertigo stadium show was big); whereas on 360, at least from down the front, the Claw pretty much becomes irrelevant, it's completely out of your line of sight. I probably 95% of the show watching the band, not looking at the Claw, not even watching the screen - I've never had that at any large concert! The whole point of the Claw is to make you focus on the four guys on the stage. I don't know if it can quite be called "intimacy" for the folks in the rafters, but I kinda see what Bono was getting at with it.

Add to that the setlists, where I thought the band hit a great balance between the big hits and pulling out enough rarities to tickle the hardcore fans who get a real kick out of hearing songs like Ultraviolet, Scarlet, Hold Me..., Love Rescue Me (!!). Lastly, someone mentioned that preachy stuff (for want of a better term) felt like a victory lap for Bono's work: I agree and I really liked that - let's celebrate the victories, the progress, whilst still acknowledging that there's more work to be done. It also didn't take up anywhere near as much of the concert and wasn't as heavy-handed, as opposed to the preaching on Vertigo which was as subtle as a brick.

To me, of the two tours I've seen, 360 is easily superior. Yes, everyone will talk about the glory days of ZooTV or the Joshua Tree tour, but just be thankful that the band that you love is still working bloody hard to put on the best show that they can. And for those who talk of greatest hits tours, go and see the Eagles or even the Stones - then you'll know what a phoned-in greatest hits show looks like (and I love both of those bands) - U2360 is a hell of a long way from that.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 06:07:25 AM
All the 2000's tours were similar to some extent, with way too many new songs dropped by the end of the tour, but this is the first ever U2 tour where they distanced themselves admittedly from the album they set out to promote early on. I don't care about the reasoning. This is plain awkward.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Inishfree on December 20, 2010, 09:36:28 AM
I wonder if U2 will change the setlist when they resume touring in 2011?   Since, it is my first concert, I will be pleased with anything they play.  But, Bono has hinted about new material and possibly an album.  I hope so.  It would be awesome.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 20, 2010, 09:50:19 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree 100% that U2 should stop playing their greatest hits like Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Your Blue Room and The Unforgettable Fire. Man, those songs are so totally overplayed.

 :D  :D  :D  Yeah, it is odd to hear 360 referred to as a "greatest hits tour" when they're regularly pulling out old songs that many in the crowd have never heard and brand new songs that most people have never heard.  Still, it is clear at least that 360 is not in support of a specific album.  I think that is a huge and groundbreaking thing, and a statement in and of itself.

And a pointless one at that. Not much added content from the stage, just a "Look how big our spacejunk is" showiness that fits only creakily with our economically challenged times. It's probably a midlife crisis thing that they hopefully get over come the next album or the one after... 

As for the rare songs, it's entertaining but they replaced a focused batch of finished songs with semi rehearsed (sometimes poorly performed to be honest) rarities and admittedly and audibly unfinished ditties, often in a two-piece format, that might or might not resurface later.

I'm glad they're having fun, but this tour is in fact dinosaur band territory.

To clarify my statement in red, which I think you're responding to in part -- when I said "it's a statement," I was referring to the fact that for the first time they're vocally not supporting their latest album with the tour anymore.  That is a loud statement on NLOTH by U2.  I wasn't referring to the new songs or generally unknown gems.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 10:25:59 AM
Ok, I see your point, that puts it in a different light, which is, making this a "for fun" tour, which in itself is an acceptable thing if planned from the start, but I don't care for it. It is no fun to me this way...
I hold my opinion on the 360° stage in general though, and hope it will be dismissed by the band as easily as NLOTH... This whole tour seems a tactical mistake they try to get out of unharmed. Lucky for them the general public don't care about NLOTH? Erm... which is your favourite brand of dinosaur?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Smee on December 20, 2010, 10:35:09 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I wonder if U2 will change the setlist when they resume touring in 2011?   Since, it is my first concert, I will be pleased with anything they play.  But, Bono has hinted about new material and possibly an album.  I hope so.  It would be awesome.

Yup....you deffo will enjoy ANY u2 gig you go to....as i do.....its just some of us have been spoilt bastards and managed to see lots of other u2 tours over the years. And by comparrison, some feel the 360 tour falls short to what u2 can do. Dont get me wrong, if, as is rumoured, u2 return to the UK next year, I will deffinatley be going to see them, and i know i will love the show....just not as much as any other tour i have seen.
Next tour, i would really like to see it being all about the music....forget the fancy stage. I mean....they talk about men and their fancy cars being penis extensions....thats how i feel about 360 tour.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Rayford27 on December 20, 2010, 10:43:50 AM
I have been to every tour since early ZooTV, and I think 360 is totally awesome.  But, I think it is probably the least totally awesome tour they've done (except for Popmart... I just didn't get Popmart.)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Bads316 on December 20, 2010, 11:10:21 AM
It is the Avatar of rock tours - I thought the film was technically impressive but a big pile of crap otherwise
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 12:36:37 PM
Nice comparison. Agreed on Avatar... Its also a form of ego justification. Technology is good for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 20, 2010, 03:21:40 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ok, I see your point, that puts it in a different light, which is, making this a "for fun" tour, which in itself is an acceptable thing if planned from the start, but I don't care for it. It is no fun to me this way...
I hold my opinion on the 360° stage in general though, and hope it will be dismissed by the band as easily as NLOTH... This whole tour seems a tactical mistake they try to get out of unharmed. Lucky for them the general public don't care about NLOTH? Erm... which is your favourite brand of dinosaur?

Yeah, as I chimed in early on in this thread, 360 is my least favorite tour of all time (if I'm able to judge based on DVDs and whatnot)  8) I think this is the first time in their career that U2 really stumbled, and it carried through from album to tour.  I hope when they get back up they really stand tall.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
Well there's a strong chance.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 20, 2010, 05:29:53 PM
U2's live sound has been virtually identical for three tours now, as has been The Stones for their last four tours, and I really can't see U2 changing it much on future tours.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 06:34:26 PM
shush now Dice! That's a very ugly thing to hear before Xmas...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 20, 2010, 06:37:59 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
shush now Dice! That's a very ugly thing to hear before Xmas...

You should know by now that Father Christmas doesn't exist.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 20, 2010, 07:06:01 PM
:-/ (Insert snarky and nudge-nudge flavoured imaginary reply)


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: RiverEuphrates on December 20, 2010, 09:44:57 PM
Try as I might I get no feeling from 'The Claw'.  To me it's dystopian. It does not fit into the U2 aesthetic, there's no reference to No Line (but I believe it was always called the '360 Tour' anyway?).  So following the logic, the set up is to fill as many seats as possible, and along with the BBerry sponsorship, the 'for love or for money?' question lurks-  I have nothing against making money BTW.

I put that aside and enjoyed both shows in summer '09, but I would agree there was something missing.  Some of it was due to me- not least from seeing Springsteen a few times prior (no bells and whistles, just songs.)

The stage, with the lights, screens etc... actually take away from the intimacy- it might be me, but Zoo TV did not have that problem, mostly because Zoo TV fit with Achtung Baby and U2's direction at the time.  But with 360 there is no clue of that.  And so I come back to the financials and that Live Nation call some shots now, if only indirectly. 

I think I would enjoy it better without the artifice- U2 are selling themselves short if they don't think they could still do that- but it would not fill the stadiums.  I suppose once you have the taste for the stadiums, you do what you need to do to keep it. Even if Bono needs to use the teleprompter, he's still got the energy.  The set lists are more adventurous than ever (unrecorded songs etc...)

The danger is that U2, no matter how successful the tour, could be heading down the route of carbaret entertainment.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 20, 2010, 09:47:58 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Try as I might I get no feeling from 'The Claw'.  To me it's dystopian. It does not fit into the U2 aesthetic, there's no reference to No Line (but I believe it was always called the '360 Tour' anyway?).  So following the logic, the set up is to fill as many seats as possible, and along with the BBerry sponsorship, the 'for love or for money?' question lurks-  I have nothing against making money BTW.

I put that aside and enjoyed both shows in summer '09, but I would agree there was something missing.  Some of it was due to me- not least from seeing Springsteen a few times prior (no bells and whistles, just songs.)

The stage, with the lights, screens etc... actually take away from the intimacy- it might be me, but Zoo TV did not have that problem, mostly because Zoo TV fit with Achtung Baby and U2's direction at the time.  But with 360 there is no clue of that.  And so I come back to the financials and that Live Nation call some shots now, if only indirectly. 

I think I would enjoy it better without the artifice- U2 are selling themselves short if they don't think they could still do that- but it would not fill the stadiums.  I suppose once you have the taste for the stadiums, you do what you need to do to keep it. Even if Bono needs to use the teleprompter, he's still got the energy.  The set lists are more adventurous than ever (unrecorded songs etc...)

The danger is that U2, no matter how successful the tour, could be heading down the route of carbaret entertainment.



I totally feel ya, and I just echoed your concerns here: http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,14785.0.html
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Chip on December 20, 2010, 11:09:30 PM
Wow. I'm not surprised that some fans are disappointed (after all, it's pretty hard not to get disappointed at some point by a band the longer it runs), but the amount of negativity is far more than I'd expect. To me, 360 was what Popmart should have been.

Does the claw have a connection to NLOTH? Well, yeah. If you take Bono's goal of making a "gospel album for the future" and then create a futuristic environment (i.e., a "spaceship," at least in Bono's eyes) that then serves to give visual impression to that goal, I'd say the claw has pretty well served its purpose. There was considerable thematic unity of 360 during the U.S. leg, in song selections and running order. And I don't think U2 has ever created a better thematic concert section than the Auden poem (later replaced by Zoo baby) introduction/"Ultraviolet"/WOWY (performed intentionally lowkey, given Bono's character during the encore)/"Moment of Surrender." I think it even surpasses the thematic unity seen in the encore set of later Zoo TV concerts (as exemplified in Live from Sydney).   

I'm surprised, too, that there hasn't been much (any?) discussion about how personal this setting seemingly is for Bono. On the Vertigo tour, he talked about the impact that the moon landing made upon him. This tour, and possibly even NLOTH in light of Bono's previously stated goal for it, seems to have spun out of that interest.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 21, 2010, 05:24:15 AM
it lacks the energy and passion of u2s zoo tv but for me 360 has been better than pop tour.. i guess its an age thing smee not just with the band but us as well  lets face it your not going to have the same energy in your mid 50s that you would have had in your mid 20s sad but thats life i guess.. they are still for me the best live act out there though and noone will ever match u2 live in the 90s. impossible to match
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 21, 2010, 05:52:45 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Wow. I'm not surprised that some fans are disappointed (after all, it's pretty hard not to get disappointed at some point by a band the longer it runs), but the amount of negativity is far more than I'd expect. To me, 360 was what Popmart should have been.

Does the claw have a connection to NLOTH? Well, yeah. If you take Bono's goal of making a "gospel album for the future" and then create a futuristic environment (i.e., a "spaceship," at least in Bono's eyes) that then serves to give visual impression to that goal, I'd say the claw has pretty well served its purpose. There was considerable thematic unity of 360 during the U.S. leg, in song selections and running order. And I don't think U2 has ever created a better thematic concert section than the Auden poem (later replaced by Zoo baby) introduction/"Ultraviolet"/WOWY (performed intentionally lowkey, given Bono's character during the encore)/"Moment of Surrender." I think it even surpasses the thematic unity seen in the encore set of later Zoo TV concerts (as exemplified in Live from Sydney).   

I'm surprised, too, that there hasn't been much (any?) discussion about how personal this setting seemingly is for Bono. On the Vertigo tour, he talked about the impact that the moon landing made upon him. This tour, and possibly even NLOTH in light of Bono's previously stated goal for it, seems to have spun out of that interest.


Popmart had an intellectual concept behind its visual identity. The claw is one big dumb ugly stage set - big for the sake of being big. It's also interesting that the tour graphics (360 logo) etc look like a 15 year old with a heavy metal fixation designed them. POPMART and ZOOTV were aesthetically very pleasing in that area. Even Vertigo had a pretty decent visual look. There is no connection whatsoever between the graphic feel of NLOTH (which is nice enough) and the claw.

It's almost like the claw was designed for a different band on a different tour.

This doesn't help with accusations from many here that 360 (270) has become a Greatest Hits Tour...

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 21, 2010, 07:55:21 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
it lacks the energy and passion of u2s zoo tv but for me 360 has been better than pop tour.. i guess its an age thing smee not just with the band but us as well  lets face it your not going to have the same energy in your mid 50s that you would have had in your mid 20s sad but thats life i guess.. they are still for me the best live act out there though and noone will ever match u2 live in the 90s. impossible to match

It seems like Bono is fighting that expectation in to 00s with his famous stage laps.  I think U2/Bono is just trying too hard, which plenty of people have referenced -- trying to be relevant, trying to have hit records, trying to have sell-out stadium shows, trying to have hit singles, trying to be the biggest band in the world, trying to have the biggest stage set-up in history, trying to have the biggest grossing tour of all time, trying, trying, trying.  U2 is at its best when they let the magic work, when they let the spirit move them, in organic and natural ways.  Yes, they're older now, and the won't have the stamina of 20-year-olds, but there are obvious benefits to being older.  Wisdom, acquired knowledge....large bank accounts, in this particular case.  They should exploit their gained strengths and follow their hearts and instincts without trying so hard to do something.  It can come across as artificial and forced that way, and that's a difficult mindset to be in when you want to create classic, enduring music and memorable, meaningful live experiences.

360 and NLOTH might just be the sound and sight of U2 trying to do something rather than doing something well.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 21, 2010, 04:24:45 PM
If I just listen to their respective audio's, then 360 from the Rose Bowl is BETTER than Vertigo live from Chicago, even if they sound very much the same.




Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Domenico of Lovetown on December 21, 2010, 05:46:47 PM
I was listening to North Star, Every Breaking Wave, UV and the All I Want Is You/Love Rescue Me/Desire performance from Perth earlier today.  I really think that some of these 360 shows have been brilliant.  I totally understand the criticism of the stage.  The claw and the video screen don't bother me that much, but those bridges seem out of place.  I wish they had a less complex stage presentation.

The one 360 show that I caught in New Jersey actually contained a sizable chunk of NLOTH.  I don't think this "Greatest Hits Tour Debate" applied to that leg so much.

I see absolutely no comparison to the Rolling Stones of the present. 

You might be able to make a Steel Wheels era comparison because U2 now are kind of at the same point in their career that the Stones were in 1989-1990
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 21, 2010, 06:07:28 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I see absolutely no comparison to the Rolling Stones of the present. 

You might be able to make a Steel Wheels era comparison because U2 now are kind of at the same point in their career that the Stones were in 1989-1990

Interesting that you should mention that, but in fact U2 are at The Rolling Stones, Voodoo Lounge stage (1994/95) of their career, if you compare the length of their respective recording careers.

Comparisons include: both bands have established their modern live sounds; the Voodoo Lounge world tour is the most highly attended rock tour in history with 6.6 Million tickets sold, but this is going to be overtaken by U2's present 360 tour; both tours began with both bands playing 7 songs from their new albums, and both cut the number of new songs in the set as the tours progressed; both the Stones and U2 are touring jukeboxes playing roughly the same number of warhorses and selected songs from their back catalogues. 

The Stones Voodoo Lounge album sold 6 million copies and NLOTH has sold 4 million copies.

I definitely think there are comparisons to The Rolling Stones, right now.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Domenico of Lovetown on December 21, 2010, 07:04:45 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I see absolutely no comparison to the Rolling Stones of the present. 

You might be able to make a Steel Wheels era comparison because U2 now are kind of at the same point in their career that the Stones were in 1989-1990

Interesting that you should mention that, but in fact U2 are at The Rolling Stones, Voodoo Lounge stage (1994/95) of their career, if you compare the length of their respective recording careers.

Comparisons include: both bands have established their modern live sounds; the Voodoo Lounge world tour is the most highly attended rock tour in history with 6.6 Million tickets sold, but this is going to be overtaken by U2's present 360 tour; both tours began with both bands playing 7 songs from their new albums, and both cut the number of new songs in the set as the tours progressed; both the Stones and U2 are touring jukeboxes playing roughly the same number of warhorses and selected songs from their back catalogues. 

The Stones Voodoo Lounge album sold 6 million copies and NLOTH has sold 4 million copies.

I definitely think there are comparisons to The Rolling Stones, right now.




I suppose that the big difference is that U2 have never been and never will be the touring jukebox that The Rolling Stones have become.  The Stones have a far more extensive back catalog with triple the number of radio hits.

That said, one of my regrets is never having caught a Steel Wheels show.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 21, 2010, 07:15:16 PM
But the point is that U2 HAVE ALREADY become a touring jukebox like The Rolling Stones, on the 360 and Vertigo tours.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Domenico of Lovetown on December 21, 2010, 08:15:53 PM
It's not possible.  The jukebox selections are not there.  They don't have the radio hits.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Miami66 on December 21, 2010, 08:20:35 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This doesn't help with accusations from many here that 360 (270) has become a Greatest Hits Tour...

you mean the 20 fans that think so and the 70+ fans who don't?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 21, 2010, 09:28:43 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It's not possible.  The jukebox selections are not there.  They don't have the radio hits.

U2 have had about the same number of radio hits in the UK as the Stones.

We're not going to have a disagreement over the definition of a 'touring jukebox' are we?

I don't mean just playing hit singles, as most of the songs in a typical live Stones set were not hit singles - which would make it impossible for the Stones to be a jukebox in that case -  I mean racking up their entire back catalogue and selecting various songs from it.  This, along with the warhorses, which U2 seem to have as many in a show as the Stones do. e.g Beautiful Day, One, WOWY, Streets, SBS, New Year's Day, I Will Follow, I Still Haven't Found..., Elevation, Pride, Bullet the Blue Sky, The Fly, Until the End of the World, Mysterious Ways, Vertigo, COBL, Walk On, Stuck In A Moment...

In actual fact, the biggest difference between the bands is that the Stones are FAR more ADVENTUROUS in plundering the rare jewels of their back catalogue than U2 have been.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 22, 2010, 02:36:31 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I see absolutely no comparison to the Rolling Stones of the present. 

You might be able to make a Steel Wheels era comparison because U2 now are kind of at the same point in their career that the Stones were in 1989-1990

Interesting that you should mention that, but in fact U2 are at The Rolling Stones, Voodoo Lounge stage (1994/95) of their career, if you compare the length of their respective recording careers.

Comparisons include: both bands have established their modern live sounds; the Voodoo Lounge world tour is the most highly attended rock tour in history with 6.6 Million tickets sold, but this is going to be overtaken by U2's present 360 tour; both tours began with both bands playing 7 songs from their new albums, and both cut the number of new songs in the set as the tours progressed; both the Stones and U2 are touring jukeboxes playing roughly the same number of warhorses and selected songs from their back catalogues. 

The Stones Voodoo Lounge album sold 6 million copies and NLOTH has sold 4 million copies.

I definitely think there are comparisons to The Rolling Stones, right now.




I suppose that the big difference is that U2 have never been and never will be the touring jukebox that The Rolling Stones have become.  The Stones have a far more extensive back catalog with triple the number of radio hits.

That said, one of my regrets is never having caught a Steel Wheels show.
think you are well off there hardly ever hear much of the rolling stones on radio now(sadly).. u2 are on much more often at least in europe
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 22, 2010, 02:44:13 AM
and i dont know where this touring jukebox is coming from  :-\ any band is going to play most of their well known hits. otherwise 75% of the people there will feel cheated and that goes for every band.. i guess if your new  then you dont have to worry as it will feel fresh but if you play with or without you for the 100th time live people who have followed you for years might want something new but the younger people there are going to want the hits ...jezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz you cant please some people no matter what you do
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 22, 2010, 05:23:55 AM
The Rolling Stones are known widely for their classic hits, and though they release new material it doesn't "make it."  U2 is famous for being the opposite -- releasing fresh, popular, important music with each new album.  Songs like Beautiful Day and Vertigo are "new classics" and I have a hard time believing that, after the popularity stumble of NLOTH, their next album won't have at least one hit single that enters along side those tunes. Personally, I feel like the Stones and U2 are quite opposite each other.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 22, 2010, 05:32:51 AM
I havent gone to a 360 show yet... But I think some of you are totally wrong... I've been listening to this bootleg of Bono's feed from San Sebastian... His voice, IMHO, sounds way better to me than it did on PopMart, Elevation, and the Vertigo tours. And I have some bootlegs of all three. It's more important to me than anything that he sounds good. Anything else about tour is just icing on the cake.

And, personally, I dont think they've lost soul. They look the happiest than I've seen them in awhile while performing.... The youtube vids, the pictures.... it says it all... The days of Zoo and Pop are over. These are older guys now. You cant expect them to jump around stage at age 50 the way they all did when they were 30...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: kos4u2 on December 22, 2010, 05:34:47 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ok....here goes...having attended the show, having watched it on DVD and having listened to bootlegs of the shows......I think i rate the 360 tour at the bottom of the pile of all tours since War.

It may come to a shock to you, but i'm not shocked.
Well, it is a good thing none of us are alike.

As for me, the 2009 show I attended was the best show I saw in more than a decade.
I thought it was so good it kicked my feeling of the love comes to town tour to second place.

The strange thing is I can relate to your feeling. I think the 2010 shows were not up to par with the 2009 shows, but that can be caused by many reasons that I don't understand. And I have had it for years with previous tours. This combined with me more and more getting annoyed about the 'good donate here and there'  makes me feel the same way sometimes.

Luckily for me, the feeling goes away too every time a new record comes out;D

I hope  it will happen to U2.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: kos4u2 on December 22, 2010, 05:48:38 AM
I have no 'feeling'  with the Rolling Stones the way I have with U2. I like some tunes, but that's it.

However, there is a huge age difference between the Stones and U2 and as far as I know the Stones haven't had any hit over the past 3 decades..

Having seen the Stones (out of curiousity) here in the Netherlands a couple of years back,
I can't believe anyone comparing them to u2.
U2 put up a show, at times even rather dynamic.

I have never seen such a static show the way I saw at that Stones concert.
They had definitely tuned to stone playing hits even I knew.
Not at all comparable to a U2 setlist.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 22, 2010, 06:14:14 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have no 'feeling'  with the Rolling Stones the way I have with U2. I like some tunes, but that's it.

However, there is a huge age difference between the Stones and U2 and as far as I know the Stones haven't had any hit over the past 3 decades..

Having seen the Stones (out of curiousity) here in the Netherlands a couple of years back,
I can't believe anyone comparing them to u2.
U2 put up a show, at times even rather dynamic.

I have never seen such a static show the way I saw at that Stones concert.
They had definitely tuned to stone playing hits even I knew.
Not at all comparable to a U2 setlist.
i have to agree.. i was at a stones concert 4 years ago and while there were some good songs it had no comparison on a u2 concert.. stones 6 out of 10  u2 9 or a 10 out of 10 .. i might dock it one pt for get on your boots terrible song
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 22, 2010, 06:17:44 AM
360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ? And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 22, 2010, 07:00:24 AM
Also: At this point in U2's history, everything that's not from the last album is a greatest hit! ;) And I agree with xy.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 22, 2010, 10:40:08 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This doesn't help with accusations from many here that 360 (270) has become a Greatest Hits Tour...

you mean the 20 fans that think so and the 70+ fans who don't?

Dear boy, there are over 4,000 registered users on this forum - only 90 took part in your poll. 20 of which agreed that 360 (270) is indeed a Greatest Hits Tour. I suggest you canvas the other 3,910 or so before casting aspersions on my post...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 22, 2010, 11:15:54 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Also: At this point in U2's history, everything that's not from the last album is a greatest hit! ;) And I agree with xy.

Good point -- and a big PLUS for the positivity too!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: BalconyTV on December 22, 2010, 12:12:05 PM
Look, the band are great. But they're changed. They're not the same band they were 10 years ago, and certainly not the same band they were 20 years ago.

They have different motivations, both outside music, and inside music.

I would prefer if the band where as conceptually sound as they were around ZooTV, Pop, and Elevation. They clearly are not.

The 360 tour is enjoyable, but is nowhere near as esoterically satisfying as Popmart, ZooTV or Elevation. Which all had special feelings. Probably due to the music they supported.

360 supports nothing.

Still good mind.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Starman on December 22, 2010, 01:00:42 PM
I kind of have to agree with Smee here. It does seem like a more distant, less personal show. Then again, so did PopMart. There are things about the tour that I like and there are things that I hate.

It seems like if U2 wanted to play stadiums in NA again, they should have done so on the Vertigo or Elevation Tours instead of this one.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 22, 2010, 02:05:53 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ?  And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 22, 2010, 02:12:09 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Having seen the Stones (out of curiousity) here in the Netherlands a couple of years back,

I can't believe anyone comparing them to u2.

They had definitely tuned to stone playing hits even I knew.

Not at all comparable to a U2 setlist.

Can you tell me specifically which Stones show you attended, so that I can compare the set-list with a U2 set-list on the 360 and Vertigo tours.



 
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 22, 2010, 02:20:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Rolling Stones are known widely for their classic hits, and though they release new material it doesn't "make it."  U2 is famous for being the opposite -- releasing fresh, popular, important music with each new album.  Songs like Beautiful Day and Vertigo are "new classics" and I have a hard time believing that, after the popularity stumble of NLOTH, their next album won't have at least one hit single that enters along side those tunes. Personally, I feel like the Stones and U2 are quite opposite each other.

I think you'll find that U2 are widely known for their classic hits, too.

And wanting U2's next album to have at least one hit single shows that you obviously haven't learned the vital lesson; U2 striving for hit singles is a big reason why they don't make great cohesive albums like Zooropa and Pop anymore.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 22, 2010, 02:24:18 PM
And who cares how you define it? If you think 360 is a soulless greatest hits show, then don't go and quit whining that it's no longer ZooTV. You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 22, 2010, 02:33:03 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 22, 2010, 02:41:19 PM
Please, please, pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasePLEASE don't start breaking out Monkeys, Beach Boys, George Thorogood, RATT, and Witesnake tours and tally up the number of new songs in the rotation and Grammy nods!!!!  Stones were huge and alive, but they've been on a breathing machine for decades.  U2 have been alive and kicking all along.  Sure, they've had spikes on the EKG, but they come back strong each time.

Is there already a "The Dragging Rocks" discussion somewhere?  ;)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 22, 2010, 02:48:50 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ?  And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.




We can equate 4 millions sold in 2009 with 6 millions sold in 1994 because... ?

U2 has won plenty of Grammys with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Furthermore they had huge hits with BD and Vertigo which eclipse anything off Vodoo Lunge. And yes, no one has cared for Stones' output post 1980. See U2 which did well right up until NLOTH, and even that can be attributed to albums selling less for EVERYONE and having a weak lead single.

*edit Let's see, speaking of comparable notes, how much of the last album U2 plays 16 years from now when their career is where the Stones are now.

Some go to see the hits (of which 5 were pretty much on the bench) and because "it's U2", yes. But a lot less so compared to the Stones.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 22, 2010, 02:51:24 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


LOL
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Bads316 on December 22, 2010, 03:06:39 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
And who cares how you define it? If you think 360 is a soulless greatest hits show, then don't go and quit whining that it's no longer ZooTV. You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.

by eck lass but it were....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFLBvLxLJMI
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 22, 2010, 03:08:59 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ?  And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.




We can equate 4 millions sold in 2009 with 6 millions sold in 1994 because... ?

U2 has won plenty of Grammys with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Furthermore they had huge hits with BD and Vertigo which eclipse anything off Vodoo Lunge. And yes, no one has cared for Stones' output post 1980. See U2 which did well right up until NLOTH, and even that can be attributed to albums selling less for EVERYONE and having a weak lead single.

Some go to see the hits and because "it's U2", yes. But a lot less so compared to the Stones.

Well, you have absolutely no objective way of proving your last statement. ;)

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 22, 2010, 03:34:14 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 22, 2010, 03:36:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

I remember a lot of whining about U2 around the time of Pop/PopMart.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 22, 2010, 03:38:30 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

I remember a lot of whining about U2 around the time of Pop/PopMart.




I admittedly fell out of love with them momentarily between 1997 and 2001. Not their fault, though: my life kind of happened. They came back into my life at a time when I needed them, though. I'm still kicking myself for not going to ZooTV or PopMart concerts. Had I done so, I might be whining right now with the rest of you, I guess. ;) I was sadly too young to go to any concerts before ZooTV...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: ian ryan on December 22, 2010, 08:12:01 PM
I haven't read through all the pages in this thread, but I have to say I'm enjoying this tour as much as the previous ones. Part of it is that I'm getting to see them in stadiums, which is their natural habitat in my opinion. Part of it is what they're not playing. They've barely touched Bullet the Blue Sky, New Year's Day, Pride, Desire, and I Will Follow. I love all of those songs, but they were all in need of a breather. They are still playing a show that is full of hits, and they are lucky that they have so many hits to pick from, but the fact that they're willing to give those songs a break when they could be playing them still is a very positive thing for me on this tour. I think my biggest complaint is how many NLOTH songs they've dropped over the past couple legs. I freaking love the live versions of NLOTH and Breathe, and it's a shame they're not including them.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: RiverEuphrates on December 22, 2010, 09:36:55 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Try as I might I get no feeling from 'The Claw'.  To me it's dystopian. It does not fit into the U2 aesthetic, there's no reference to No Line (but I believe it was always called the '360 Tour' anyway?).  So following the logic, the set up is to fill as many seats as possible, and along with the BBerry sponsorship, the 'for love or for money?' question lurks-  I have nothing against making money BTW.

I put that aside and enjoyed both shows in summer '09, but I would agree there was something missing.  Some of it was due to me- not least from seeing Springsteen a few times prior (no bells and whistles, just songs.)

The stage, with the lights, screens etc... actually take away from the intimacy- it might be me, but Zoo TV did not have that problem, mostly because Zoo TV fit with Achtung Baby and U2's direction at the time.  But with 360 there is no clue of that.  And so I come back to the financials and that Live Nation call some shots now, if only indirectly. 

I think I would enjoy it better without the artifice- U2 are selling themselves short if they don't think they could still do that- but it would not fill the stadiums.  I suppose once you have the taste for the stadiums, you do what you need to do to keep it. Even if Bono needs to use the teleprompter, he's still got the energy.  The set lists are more adventurous than ever (unrecorded songs etc...)

The danger is that U2, no matter how successful the tour, could be heading down the route of carbaret entertainment.



I totally feel ya, and I just echoed your concerns here: http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,14785.0.html

Well... kind of.  I think U2 have always done things their way- if they are not feeling inspired by what they are doing then they are not going to do it, and rightfully so I think.  I mean, if there was an international petition with 2 MM fans requesting a customized tour, I would be OK if they told everyone to F*&% Off.

They may do an occasional 1000 seater in the future, but probably not as a full gig- and them playing songs they dropped from the set during or by the following album tour will probably never be heard again (Indian Summer Sky etc...). 

Though I would gladly hear other songs than Ultraviolet, Hold Me Thrill Me, With or w/out you etc...

But mark my words, one of these days they will dust off Surrender!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 23, 2010, 12:27:15 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
360 and Vertigo being Greatest hits shows ?

Not really. Having 7 or more new songs in the set, bringing out rarities* and having almost half of the set from the last decade. Not to mention opening with 4 new song in a row, and premiering 5 unreleased songs.

* The Stones are more than 15 years older - of course they have a bigger catalogue to pick from. However, when was the last time they had 7 songs off the last album in the set ?  And no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years...the only reason people see them it's because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show.

1994.  At exactly the same stage in their careers as U2 are at now. ;)

And at the same stage as U2 releasing NLOTH which sold 4 million copies, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge which sold 6 million and won them a Grammy for best Rock Album - so hardly the case that "no one has cared for their recorded output for more than 20 years."

I think the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.




We can equate 4 millions sold in 2009 with 6 millions sold in 1994 because... ?

U2 has won plenty of Grammys with ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Furthermore they had huge hits with BD and Vertigo which eclipse anything off Vodoo Lunge. And yes, no one has cared for Stones' output post 1980. See U2 which did well right up until NLOTH, and even that can be attributed to albums selling less for EVERYONE and having a weak lead single.

Some go to see the hits and because "it's U2", yes. But a lot less so compared to the Stones.

Well, you have absolutely no objective way of proving your last statement. ;)

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.





The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.

No, it just proves U2 are a band more in tune with the audience, more current.

What does the use of bridges have to do with anything ? You really think no one thought of that before the Stones did it ? U2 were the first to use TV screens and one of the first to have a B-stage, the first to use a LED screen and the first major act to tour "in the round" setup in stadiums worldwide. Comparisons like that feel like kindergarten talk...

Yes, U2 and Stones had the most attended and biggest shows. And ?
 But have no fear, I'm sure the Stones will find a way to earn more money - having more expensive tickets comes to mind...incidentally, what Stones tour had 10 000 tickets at the price of 30 dollars, as 360 currently has ?

U2 probably looked for the best tax advisor. It happens to be the same guy that helped out with the Stones taxes.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: aarong on December 23, 2010, 12:55:28 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth, who's an expert in advising Irish srtists in how to minimise tax payments. Incidentially, you remember the story about Adam's housekeeper he had to let go as she was using his plastic for her own purposes? Adam has legal proceedings against him in court for basically not advising him earlier of the withdrawls as he's also Adam's, or was, Adam's financial advisor, causing a bit of anxt amongst the band members at the time
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 01:21:23 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.




Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 01:41:31 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: aarong on December 23, 2010, 02:01:28 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.



Gabby Smyth would disagree with you - he has been advising Irish "artists" for years.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: aarong on December 23, 2010, 02:02:24 AM
http://www.atu2.com/news/u2-bassist-adam-clayton-sues-bands-moneyman-for-negligence.html
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 02:13:59 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.



just point of information - he's an Irish guy called Gabby Smyth

In point of fact, his name is Jan Favie and he owns a company called Promogroup based in Amsterdam, which also has a branch in the Dutch Antilles, and he now advises U2 Ltd, along with his other longstanding clients, The Rolling Stones.

U2 thank him in the 'Thanks to' section of No Line On The Horizon, as well they might given the $Millions he's going to save them in tax liabilities.



Gabby Smyth would disagree with you - he has been advising Irish "artists" for years.

This guy probably advises them on their Irish financial affairs, where as Jan Favie advises the band on their Dutch tax arrangements - different advisers for different territories and tax codes.

So I don't think Gabby would disagree with me.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 23, 2010, 05:25:10 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?





And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


And why is an issue when U2 gives thanks to their employees ? They do it all the time on the album notes.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 05:37:25 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: gnmmet on December 23, 2010, 06:52:29 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.




Or that u2 have just been making good music. Some of us here actually enjoy listening to ATYCLB and HTDAAB. 

Pretty sure the Black Eyed Peas used bridges on their last tour, does that mean they are the stones too? Besides didn't the stones rip off the B-stage from U2 for that tour.

U2 have had ridiculously high grossing tours since Zoo Tv. Is it a problem that a lot of people want to see them? 

I sorta get your point about the setlist. The number of new songs has gotten pretty low. But do 12 shows out of over 100 doom a tour? I don't think so.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 23, 2010, 06:55:36 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)



a band that plays its hits at a concert. does not every band do that ???
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 23, 2010, 07:07:16 AM
Wait.....doesn't Jay-Z wear sunglasses in concert ???  I think Jay-Z might be becoming U2 now...  >:(  8)
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 07:11:06 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)



a band that plays its hits at a concert. does not every band do that ???

Of course.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 07:20:16 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)



a band that plays its hits at a concert. does not every band do that ???

Of course.



Not true - I saw the Brian Jonestown Massacre recently and they didn't perform any hits or any songs from their new album.

Not all musicians are money obsessed like Boon and his chums...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 07:21:08 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The fact that U2 have had more hits in recent years proves that U2 are more of a greatest hits preoccupied band than The Rolling Stones.  As Keef Richards says: We stopped making hit records in 1968 and started making albums. ;)

Further evidence that U2 have already become like the modern Rolling Stones is;

They are now using bridges as part of their stage sets, which the Stones first did on the Bridges to babylon tour;

They are beating the Stones at their own game with 360 which by tour end will become the highest grossing corporate rock tour and the most attended in history;

U2 are now being advised in tax avoidance by the same Dutch guy that has advised the Stones in tax avoidance for decades.




Or that u2 have just been making good music. Some of us here actually enjoy listening to ATYCLB and HTDAAB. 

Pretty sure the Black Eyed Peas used bridges on their last tour, does that mean they are the stones too? Besides didn't the stones rip off the B-stage from U2 for that tour.

U2 have had ridiculously high grossing tours since Zoo Tv. Is it a problem that a lot of people want to see them? 

I sorta get your point about the setlist. The number of new songs has gotten pretty low. But do 12 shows out of over 100 doom a tour? I don't think so.



I'm just providing examples of why I think U2 have become like the modern Rolling Stones, and people seem to be agreeing with my examples.  I agree that U2 are making good music as are the Rolling Stones; many people enjoy listening to albums such as Voodoo Lounge, Bridges to Babylon, A Bigger Bang.  Both U2 and the Stones have high grossing tours and sell far more tickets to their concerts than they sell their new albums.  And you're right, the Stones did copy the B-stage concept from U2 - yet another thing they have in common.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: TheFlyingLemon on December 23, 2010, 07:28:38 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not all musicians are money obsessed like Boon and his chums...

 ???

visitors can't see pics , please You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 07:40:08 AM
Good grief. :/ You guys. I give up.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 23, 2010, 07:51:43 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)



a band that plays its hits at a concert. does not every band do that ???

Of course.



Not true - I saw the Brian Jonestown Massacre recently and they didn't perform any hits or any songs from their new album.

Not all musicians are money obsessed like Boon and his chums...

who the hell is brian jonestown massacre
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: imedi on December 23, 2010, 07:59:42 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Good grief. :/ You guys. I give up.
lol i guess as the u2 fan age goes up we get grumpy lol.. i think the bottom line is it depends on the concert you are at or more so the crowd a friend of mine who has gone to u2 for the last 20 years thought the concert in wales this tour was the best he has ever seen.. on the whole  i think the best u2 crowds are always in europe and south america where as crowds in usa and australia seem to be more layed back although canada  newyork and mexico  are loud too in fairness
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Domenico of Lovetown on December 23, 2010, 08:06:35 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You people act like old men sitting around in the room talking about how everything was better in "the old days" and everything sucks today. I'm getting tired of all the whining here.


You call this whining? You want to hear whining, you should have been around back in the '90s. Now THAT was whining!


You mean on here, the forum? ;) Cuz, otherwise, I did exist--and as an adult--in the 1990s. ;) Well, I mean, I was adult during MOST of the 90s. Though I graduated from college the year Pop was released. ;)

I remember a lot of whining about U2 around the time of Pop/PopMart.




There actually was some whining when Achtung Baby was released, if you can believe that.

I was in college when AB was released and there was a "hardcore" fan from Boston, an Irish kid.  I remember him saying "I just can't get into this album".

There were also quite a few complaints about the first leg ZOO TV setlists because they excluded Boy, October and War.  Some fans did not dig the AB tracks live.

There has ALWAYS been whining.  It's part of the tradition.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 08:11:02 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)



a band that plays its hits at a concert. does not every band do that ???

Of course.



Not true - I saw the Brian Jonestown Massacre recently and they didn't perform any hits or any songs from their new album.

Not all musicians are money obsessed like Boon and his chums...

who the hell is brian jonestown massacre

The Brian Jonestown Massacre are a genius American rock n roll band. If you like your music druggy and a little bit f**ked up, check them out.

However most U2 fans would hate them for the same reasons I love them...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 08:14:39 AM
^ They sound like a bunch of headbangers.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 08:15:36 AM
Ha! I must not be a very good U2 fan, then. The only things I'm currently whining about are 1)the fact that my concerts are still months away, 2) I want a new album, 3) A few more songs from October played. :)

I really love NLOTH and don't view it a failure at all. And, I love October (my favorite album). I don't hate any of their albums. I like some songs less than others. But honestly, I have nothing to complain about with this band. I LOVE them. More than any other musical group or musician I listen to. I think they're brilliant and they have a way of touching my soul with their music. I have no complaints. Some of you people just seem to never be satisfied. It's no wonder I'm afraid to publish my own writing... People are so critical. Ikes!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 23, 2010, 09:23:16 AM
I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 09:44:31 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.

<I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.>

Couldn't have put it better myself...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 10:01:25 AM
Okay, now I wish I could remove myself from this thread so I stop getting updates from it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Frakkin' depressing. I'm going back to the BRMW thread where there's only the positive energy of hot Bono pictures.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Starman on December 23, 2010, 10:12:54 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have to say... Seeing U2 in Paris in 2010 is the first time I thought it wasn't worth what I'd paid for it.

I had seen the 2 Paris shows in 2009. This 2010 leg just didn't make sense. It was just U2 playing it safe. And I've seen each tour since 1989.

1/the set list is a mix of different things but there's a lack of meaning overall, except "we're good at what we're doing, don't you think ?". There's no direction.

2/yes it's a good show. But from the U2ers, I've been expecting more than just a show. I want a meaning.

3/it's probably the less spontaneous live music experience I've had in my life. Listening to earpiece bootlegs is really scary and explains a lot : those guys are now unable to play if there isn't some computer giving them tempo, tone and GPS as to where they are in the f****** tune ? ("verse-1-2-3-4")

3/When I first saw 360, it was really early in the tour, 3 weeks in. My first thought was that the whole 360 concept was not achieved yet. I did compare it at the time with Peter Gabriel's Growing Up tour which used this concept a lot better, IMO. Well, a whole year later, nothing much changed about that...

4/I remember that during the 2 previous tours a lot of people were complaining about having Bullet the Blue Sky in the set list again. Well, what turned me into U2 as a teenager was contrast. Between the hymns and the dark places of the soul. It's just not there anymore. Bullet is missing, SBS lost its impact.

5/Bono's speeches. Having Bono discussing about human rights in... Burma when he is playing in the country where the Human Rights were born, at a moment as we see the government taking action against gypsies for just being gypsies is a major let down. I guess you can't be friends with the french president and tell him when he's wrong... What was "Stuck in a moment" about, anyway ?

I still love U2. I love NLOTH. But I think something's gone forever. Like when they release "Wide awake in Europe", but not in... Europe, when they offer records in a competition but are unable to give SIGNED items like Coldplay or so many other bands do on a regular basis... I think we stopped living in the same world.

Well said!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 23, 2010, 11:06:14 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Okay, now I wish I could remove myself from this thread so I stop getting updates from it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Frakkin' depressing. I'm going back to the BRMW thread where there's only the positive energy of hot Bono pictures.

This is not directed at MarsGirl specifically, but I think that people who only love everything U2 does and have no complaints or criticisms should limit themselves to the "Band" section of the forum. This page is called "General U2 Discussion," and it's pretty hard to discuss anything when everything thinks alike and no one can entertain an alternate point of view. U2 fans are passionate people, and sometimes loving something a lot results in getting upset when potential is not met. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference, since you have to love something to criticize it.

So for the newer listeners, the kids, or the fainthearted, just stick to the "Band" page and to topics like, "Bono Rocks My World," "Isn't Edge the Awesommest?", and "What Do You All Think Larry's Favorite Flavor of Ice Cream Is?" Because in the "Discussion" section, we're going to have grown-up conversations, and it's gonna get heated sometimes.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 11:26:31 AM
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 11:43:54 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Criticism or praise is relative - it's also a matter of opinion.

Perhaps some of us (ie me, apparently) are TOO critical - equally perhaps others are too gushing about Boon and his chums.

That said, both opposites stimulate debate which, in a democracy (which this forum alleges to be), can never be a bad thing...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 23, 2010, 11:46:01 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 11:54:34 AM
I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 12:09:57 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

As Exile said, this is a place for debate, not sentimentality - you can still dig the tunes you dig - it doesn't matter what anyone says about them. I think Boots, and, say Pride are garbage and can give perfectly reasonable reasons why. You might love Boots and Pride which is good for you - and you also can give perfectly reasonable reasons why. Therein lies the definition of debate...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 23, 2010, 12:10:17 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

Fair enough, and if I have ever been "insultingly critical" then I hope you'll accept my apology (but I certainly try not to be, and I always try to make my criticisms constructive and accompanied by examples of why I am saying what I am saying as well as proposals for how things could be better).

It's just that art is a subjective thing, and when it's out there for public consumption, that means that the public gets to like or dislike it, and give their reasons why.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: gnmmet on December 23, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).

Ehh, She's kinda got a point.

There's a difference between whining and criticism.

Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.

Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.

Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not.

There have been some concerns raised here that I disagree with, but respect. Unfortunately I feel like some of them are being drowned out by a mass of whining...

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 23, 2010, 12:29:45 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm lot a lalala love everything U2 does kind of person. I have criticisms. I just think sometimes people here are a little TOO critical. To the point where it doesnt even seem like you like the band at all. That's what I find annoying. Depressing. I do see that their live shows are not what they used to be, but they're also 50... voices change, people get old... blah blah blah. I accept them for what they are now. Although, really, I think NLOTH is one of the best releases they've done in this decade.... And as much as I like songs on Pop, I do think that album was a bit of a drifting around lyrically and musically....

Yes, but what some people (including you lately) seem to be doing is drawing the line that constitutes acceptable criticism right where you happen to land, so that anyone who is more critical than you is "way too critical" (while your own level of criticism is just fine). And ironically, that makes you very critical of others (!).

Ehh, She's kinda got a point.

There's a difference between whining and criticism.

Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.

Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.

Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not.

There have been some concerns raised here that I disagree with, but respect. Unfortunately I feel like some of them are being drowned out by a mass of whining...



That's good for you - and your opinion.

However, your definition of whining is not necessarily someone else's definition - there is no such thing as objective opinion which is, what I presume, you think your opinion might be.

Here:

<Complaining that Adams bassline on Streets is "too groovy" well thats whining. While saying that U2 need to take more risks with the setlist is criticism.
Saying that Bono messing up one syllable completely ruins a song is whining, while complaining about a lack of spontaneity in the tour is not.
Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not. >

You are stating opinion as fact...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 23, 2010, 12:40:54 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I get a little emotionally hurt when people rip on my favorite songs. So it causes me to kick back. Esp since some of those songs really have some strong meaning to me, they did something for me, and then someone comes along and openly calls them "trivial" or "garbage." How's that supposed to make me feel? Am I trivial cuz I like a so-called trivial song? Simple-minded and dull? Look, I don't like some U2 songs (Mofo!!) But you won't read me listing my dislike of it in an insulting way that makes someone who enjoys the song feel like you've ripped from them something they find meaningful. I just ask that we are a little less cruel with our criticism... That's all. I am sad for all you people who are so disappointed byt U2 shows now. I think they're awesome right now and Bono's on fire. His voice sounds great.

Fair enough, and if I have ever been "insultingly critical" then I hope you'll accept my apology (but I certainly try not to be, and I always try to make my criticisms constructive and accompanied by examples of why I am saying what I am saying as well as proposals for how things could be better).

It's just that art is a subjective thing, and when it's out there for public consumption, that means that the public gets to like or dislike it, and give their reasons why.

Fair enough. And I'll stop whining about everyone whining. I'll just keep my mouth shut when a thread is ticking me off, too, if I really have no constructive criticism to add. ;)

And just dont bash Breathe. ;) It's one of my favorite songs and I'm a little more than emotionally attached to it. Cockatoos and all. ;)

Anyway, art is a subjective thing.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Miami66 on December 23, 2010, 02:48:08 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 23, 2010, 03:19:21 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining


Actually, it's not whining, it's stupid. And it's not what I meant.

What I meant is that U2.com, in general, is a good example of the U2 management, and therefore, the band members themselves, not paying attention to what's happening on a "fan" level.

There are so many lesser known or rich or spoiled artists that actually use their websites to try and connect with their fanbase. It's always annoying to realize that U2 can't do that. Reach out to us. That's frustrating.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 23, 2010, 03:20:34 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart

...and reading yours made ME fall apart... Please elaborate.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Farisfan (polished stones) on December 23, 2010, 04:41:28 PM
Going back to the original statement....

It is interesting that you feel this way Smee....  Were you able to go to any of the 360 gigs? (or European leg in particular?)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I have been amazed at the reviews (here and elsewhere) stating that the concert(s) (on this tour) were the best the person(s) had seen ever!   I have been surprised by the "best ever" statements, I guess.

So, to each his own, I suppose.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: mattyk on December 23, 2010, 06:37:02 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
equally perhaps others are too gushing about Boon and his chums.

Hey, I don't think it's possible to be too gushing about Boonie; I mean, 52 beers on one flight [/url]http://www.fhm.com/upgrade/david-keg-on-legs-boon-drinking-52-cans-of-beer-at-altitude-20090708[/url]!! Respect!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: TheFlyingLemon on December 23, 2010, 06:43:57 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
equally perhaps others are too gushing about Boon and his chums.

Hey, I don't think it's possible to be too gushing about Boonie; I mean, 52 beers on one flight [/url]http://www.fhm.com/upgrade/david-keg-on-legs-boon-drinking-52-cans-of-beer-at-altitude-20090708[/url]!! Respect!

Can't go wrong with his mo', too!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Miami66 on December 23, 2010, 06:55:14 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart

...and reading yours made ME fall apart... Please elaborate.

Please tell me how U2 are playing it safe. Please do.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 23, 2010, 10:43:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Saying that U2 lives in a different world from yourself because they won't release autographed albums is whining; as is saying that U2 are the same as The Rolling Stones because they have both used bridges and the same tax guy. But complaining about U2 skirting tax laws and the lack of new songs played on the last leg is not.

There have been some concerns raised here that I disagree with, but respect. Unfortunately I feel like some of them are being drowned out by a mass of whining...

I was merely drawing comparisons between The Rolling Stones and U2, of which those are two examples among many others, of how the U2 of today have already become like the modern Rolling Stones. 

I agree that one person's whining is another person's fair criticism, and one person's fair criticism is another person's whining.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 24, 2010, 12:02:09 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart

...and reading yours made ME fall apart... Please elaborate.


Please tell me how U2 are playing it safe. Please do.

Well, having the very same tour going on for more than 2 years is, by definition, playing it safe.

Responding to the "new world order" of how music is now produced, distributed and shared by just making longer tours is playing it safe.

Staying on tour while you claim to have enough material for at least 3 albums is playing it safe.

Having a set list made mostly of hit singles is playing it safe. Don't try to convince me that getting Scarlet on this tour is an act of courage. It's nice, but not danger territory, Exit, Acrobat or Love is Blindness would ne. But they tried... Drowning Man was rehearsed ! By the way I'm not implying they shouldn't play hit singles, I love most of them but, to m'y recollection, this is the first time they give up on their last album.

New songs ? I guess you could say that's brave enough. But have you listened to the actual tunes ? Not exploring new territory. These are safe songs all right.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 24, 2010, 01:45:13 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It was just U2 playing it safe.

This post alone makes your entire argument fall apart

...and reading yours made ME fall apart... Please elaborate.

Please tell me how U2 are playing it safe. Please do.
.

Boon and his chums have been playing it safe since ATYCLB. And ATYCLB was only considered a radical departure because it was so different to POP. The moment they diverted their eyes from being exciting and focused instead on ticket sales, they started playing it safe...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: TheFlyingLemon on December 24, 2010, 01:46:19 AM
What does David Boon have to do with music?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 24, 2010, 01:55:18 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)




I don't think U2 and Stones both using bridges on tour, having the same tax advisor automatically proves U2 = Stones. But that's just me.

But I do think a lot more people care about U2's recent output than the Stones (let's consider the comeback with Steel Wheels as the last genuine popularity moment for them, though it is my understanding most people consider Tatoo You or Some girls, even older albums, the last genuinely good Stones albums). That is not subjective given the sales of ATYCLB/HTDAAB, and the sucess of Vertigo/BD (I don't have the data for Stones but I think I am correct when I assume their albums/singles didn't sell as much in this decade). Thus, yes, I believe more people at a U2 show want to hear the new song than at the Stones show.

Though I fully realize U2 is a younger band so in a way it's understandable they have more commercial appeal.

U2 has played a certain amount of hits. They always do, and most bands play their hits. That said, a lot less of IWF, NYD, Pride and Desire has been played this tour than previous tours. And Bullet, a major live song, has yet to appear on 360. Meanwhile we have appearnces of unreleased songs (pretty much unprecedented for U2), One tree hill, Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Batman song, Love rescue me etc. I also consider playing stadiums without a hit, in a recession, a brave thing. And like I said, I would love to see a time when Mick & Co. play a tour where 10 000 tickets are at a price of 50 $. Or, make that ANY ticket at a price 50 $.

I just don't see how the comparison works...

So no, I don't consider this tour a greatest hits tour. I don't like them playing so little from NLOTH, but what's done is done. I also think the 2010 setlist is not superior to the 2009 one, but I have also seen several reviews that say the 2010 shows are better than 2009 ones. So...*shrug* I guess it's all in the eye/ear of the beholder. Of course I say all this as someone who saw U2 in 2009, but not in 2010. I might feel differentely had I seen them both times.




Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 24, 2010, 02:22:22 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)




I don't think U2 and Stones both using bridges on tour, having the same tax advisor automatically proves U2 = Stones. But that's just me.

But I do think a lot more people care about U2's recent output than the Stones (let's consider the comeback with Steel Wheels as the last genuine popularity moment for them, though it is my understanding most people consider Tatoo You or Some girls, even older albums, the last genuinely good Stones albums).

Firstly, I didn't say that both bands using bridges in the stage design or having the same tax advisers automatically prove than "U2 = Stones".  I was drawing comparisons between U2 today and the modern Rolling Stones, of which there are many.

The last genuine popularity moment for the Stones was the release of A Bigger Bang in 2005, which was a critically acclaimed album by many publications and Stones fans.  At the exact same stage in their respective careers, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge, which sold 6 Million copies, where as U2 released No Line On The Horizon, which only sold 4 Million.  This doesn't suggest that more people care about U2's recent output than the Stones output at the same point in their careers.

 
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 24, 2010, 02:55:10 AM
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Promenade on December 24, 2010, 03:08:23 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





...that you have more money than sense...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 24, 2010, 03:30:12 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





I agree on the arena Vs stadium point, but your figures just prove that in the last 15 years, the market for CDs and live shows has evolved a LOT !

By the way, 150£ a seat in 1994/1995 is outrageous, Zoo TV seats were 30€, wether in an arena or in a stadium...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: dangerous and honest on December 24, 2010, 03:35:49 AM
I really enjoyed my 360 tour gigs. They felt like special events (U2 concerts always do), and it's great to see the band live. I think there were lots of music tourists around, but the atmosphere was still decent overall.

When I listen to the bootlegs, I do find myself switching off though. Without the atmosphere of being there, and without the 'show' visuals, you focus on just the music alone. And it definitely lacks something.
Not all the time and not every song, but it often does. I think it could be a combination of age, familiarity and a certain disjointedness to the set.  

Is the age and familiarity issue mine or the bands?
Maybe both, but I still love live music, listen to other bands (who have also been around a while), and don't feel the same way; so I still have a passion for good music in a live setting.

I like the way U2 have introduced songs into the sets on the fly. The brand new ones, the forgotten older ones. These have probably been my highlights (the Lovetown section was terrific).  I think that sometimes the other songs sound like they are being 'run through' for the sake of inclusion.
The NLOTH material was interesting to hear, but was soon phased out. We never got some of the songs from the album either. I would have loved to hear Cedars, for example, even if they had changed it around a bit and tried a different arrangement. I think earlier comments about the bands lack of confidence in this material is probably right.

Overall, similar to the last album, I think the tour suffers a bit from an identity crisis. It's a series of U2 songs, some played with less passion than others, with only a tenuous theme; all performed before an audience who, like me perhaps, has started to become interested observers as opposed to heavily involved fans. And when you analyse things without the glitz and the glamour, the delivery is not quite what it once was.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 24, 2010, 03:37:46 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





I agree on the arena Vs stadium point, but your figures just prove that in the last 15 years, the market for CDs and live shows has evolved a LOT !

By the way, 150£ a seat in 1994/1995 is outrageous, Zoo TV seats were 30€, wether in an arena or in a stadium...

£150 a seat in 1994/95. ???

I paid £150 for a great seat to see The Stones at the O2 arena in 2007, while U2 were charging £150 a seat in a gigantic stadium in 2009.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: aussieu2 on December 24, 2010, 05:53:52 AM
Smee are you from north america?

maybe your opinions stems from seeing the indoor tours of vertigo and elevation.

i thought 360 was better than vertigo 4 years ago,
but then again i havent seen them indoors which i think would be much better than a stadium gig.

understand your point though, its lacking something i cant quite put my finger on.

i'm wracking my brain now to think what vertigo and elevation had that 360 doesnt
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 24, 2010, 06:46:50 AM
Commitment to the older material on the first leg. There was a big difference in the feel of old vs. new material performances. Maybe it was just Bono being cautious with his voice. The last two legs were somewhat better performance wise, so I'm hoping for a return to glory.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 24, 2010, 06:53:08 AM
Elevation had a much bigger commitment to the new songs and it was the first tour that U2 tried the modern live U2 sound which is now all too familiar, but back in 2001 it was a new, dare I say it, back to basics sound after Zoo TV and PopMart.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 24, 2010, 07:09:55 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





I agree on the arena Vs stadium point, but your figures just prove that in the last 15 years, the market for CDs and live shows has evolved a LOT !

By the way, 150£ a seat in 1994/1995 is outrageous, Zoo TV seats were 30€, wether in an arena or in a stadium...

£150 a seat in 1994/95. ???

I paid £150 for a great seat to see The Stones at the O2 arena in 2007, while U2 were charging £150 a seat in a gigantic stadium in 2009.




Sorry. My bad.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on December 24, 2010, 07:27:52 AM
The Elevation tour worked very well, and the main reason was they played most songs (WOWY was already quite bored with itself) with passion.

Merry Xmas everyone.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 24, 2010, 07:34:44 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Elevation tour worked very well, and the main reason was they played most songs (WOWY was already quite bored with itself) with passion.

Merry Xmas everyone.




And Ho Ho Ho to U2. ;)


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 25, 2010, 03:27:28 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The vast majority at the Stones show goes to see the show and because it's the Stones. It's not hard to guess that, on average, a lot more people attending the U2 show are there to see the new songs.


Where's the objective evidence to support your "guess"?


And where is the objective evidence to support this ? the only reason that people go to see a U2 show is because it's U2 and they put on a good live show of mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones.


I was merely mimicking your line "the only reason people see them its because it's the Stones, and they do have a good live show".  I'm glad you acknowledge there is no evidence for either claim, and that it's just a matter of personal opinion.  Although, I am correct about U2 playing mainly hits and warhorses, just like the Stones and both bands do put on a good live show.  Do you see the comparisons between the bands?

And I don't have an issue with U2 thanking their employees on the album notes. :)




I don't think U2 and Stones both using bridges on tour, having the same tax advisor automatically proves U2 = Stones. But that's just me.

But I do think a lot more people care about U2's recent output than the Stones (let's consider the comeback with Steel Wheels as the last genuine popularity moment for them, though it is my understanding most people consider Tatoo You or Some girls, even older albums, the last genuinely good Stones albums).

Firstly, I didn't say that both bands using bridges in the stage design or having the same tax advisers automatically prove than "U2 = Stones".  I was drawing comparisons between U2 today and the modern Rolling Stones, of which there are many.

The last genuine popularity moment for the Stones was the release of A Bigger Bang in 2005, which was a critically acclaimed album by many publications and Stones fans.  At the exact same stage in their respective careers, The Stones released Voodoo Lounge, which sold 6 Million copies, where as U2 released No Line On The Horizon, which only sold 4 Million.  This doesn't suggest that more people care about U2's recent output than the Stones output at the same point in their careers.

 

Yes, and as the comparison you used the bridges/tax advisor, both of which can easily be refuted. By the same analogy, U2 and Stones are ripping off Pink Floyd because they have worked with David Mallet/Mark Fisher. And given that 5 major live hits are played a lot less this tour, the greatest hits comparison fails too.

Like I said, the last genuinely great Stones album is Tatoo you/Some girls, and a comeback with Steel wheels. That was decades ago. And ATYCLB, Bomb were also critically acclaimed (now I don't know how much Stones albums were selling in that point of their career, but think we can say they did not have a hit like BD or Vertigo - so, yes, I think more people care about U2's output recently) - lest we forget several 5 star reviews for NLOTH. There is no comparison between sales in 1993 - I believe Zooropa had about the same sales, give or take a million, and sales in a completely different environment where each year less CDs are sold.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 25, 2010, 03:29:47 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Which proves my point yet again.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 10:50:04 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?




Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 25, 2010, 10:53:46 AM
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.



Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: AliSPNfan on December 25, 2010, 12:45:39 PM
I saw the 360 Tour three times in the UK and once in Rome and the atmosphere each time was outstanding.I have no complaints over the stage, the songs or the ticket prices.I paid £33 for my Sheffield ticket and 44Euro for my Rome ticket.The tickets for Wembley were a bit more expensive but...it was Wembley and I wasn't going to miss those concerts for anything.I love No Line On The Horizon and was glad that so many new songs were played.In Rome I even got to hear new songs so I was a happy U2 fan that night.

I've been a fan for going on 30yrs and plenty of other bands that I loved as a younger lass are no more, but U2 are still going strong and thank goodness for that!  ;D
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 25, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 01:09:42 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: soloyan on December 25, 2010, 01:19:44 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.




??? Have you heard about illegal downloading or piracy ? I give up. Merry Christmas !
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 01:23:27 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Again, comparing CD sales from 1995 and 2009 is like comparing the market of... Say, panda bear fur in the 1800's and now.

Sort of.

FYI I've been selling records from 1997 through 2008. Guess whyI changed job ?

I'm comparing album sales in any format.

If you want another comparison; Zooropa sold 7 Million copies in 1993, where as The Stones Voodoo Lounge sold 6 Million in 1994.





This you CAN compare : both are CD sales from the same timeframe.

What you cannot compare is a cd/tickets sales ratio from 1995 Vs a cd/tickets sales ratio nowadays... Totally different maket. To give you an idea : a concert ticket was 3-5 times the prive of a Cd whereas now it's an average 10-15 times...

In which case, these days people must MUCH rather see a U2 concert where they play hits and warhorses than want to hear their new music.




??? Have you heard about illegal downloading or piracy ? I give up. Merry Christmas !

Merry Christmas. :)

If illegal downloading and piracy is that commonplace, I'm amazed that U2 even bother making any more albums.


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 25, 2010, 01:33:24 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?






More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?

I also think it's noteworthy that the Stones comeback album sold only a million more copies than U2's quickie, mid-tour EP-turned album.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 01:36:53 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?






More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?

I also think it's noteworthy that the Stones comeback album sold only a million more copies than U2's quickie, mid-tour EP-turned album.



Then it can't be a comeback album then. ::) Voodoo Lounge, on the othe hand, sold 6 million copies - 2 million more than NLOTH - at the same stage of their careers as U2 today.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Tumbling Dice on December 25, 2010, 01:42:47 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?


More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?


I thought you might have concluded that far more people who go to see a U2 concert today are more likely to be unfamiliar with U2's new music than the people that went to see the Stones on the Voodoo Lounge tour were unfamiliar with the Stones new music. ;)


Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: singnomore on December 26, 2010, 01:04:23 AM
Its probably been said elsewhere on his thread (I haven't read it all) but U2 live is a different experience - not really anything to do with stage design or set lists but its all about accessibility.

I've seen every tour since War (minus PoP) and for me it was a novelty factor to see the band live as media hadn't really developed the way it has now. U2 have chosen to use media to help promote sales etc and that popularity means more people are interested than ever in them. We therefore get more insights around the band and in particular the music. I still have my bootleg cassette of the U2 War show i was at - cant play it - but to get something like that then (god i souind old) was quite something. Now you go onto Youtube and pick your song, pick your interview.

So i totally get why people feel different within themselves about the shows - but I suspect its down to accessability, increased familiarity (in a live sense) and media
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: codeguy on December 28, 2010, 08:38:36 AM
I agree. Audience members sitting down? Shouting louder for the old songs, not the new ones?

Still, I respect what U2 is doing here. The last two tours were all about the core fans. This is for the casual fans. It's a great spectacle and they get to see U2 in a stadium. I know, I know, the stadium is supposed to be U2's home, and no-one looks more comfortable than U2 performing in front of 70,000 people, but U2 is at its best in front of 20,000 people indoors where the music is louder and the fans are more hardcore and you can play songs like Miss Sarajevo, The Electric Co, BAD, The Fly etc and give the core fans a spine-tingling experience. This tour is not that tour. The next one probably will be. In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Smee on December 28, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.
Best by what measure? Biggest doesnt mean the best. The 360 pales into insignificance compared to Joshua Tree and Zoo Tv tours, on every front...apart from attendance! Them two tours will go down in Tour Folklore...360 wont!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: vertigo 77 on December 28, 2010, 06:39:18 PM
You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 28, 2010, 07:36:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."

That's the scariest thought ever.  U2 is the shiniest example (maybe the only?) of a band who can be huge, popular, powerful, lasting, and evolving throughout their whole career.  They should have died after Rattle & Hum.  But they came back strong.  They should have died after Pop.  But they flared up again with "Beautiful Day."   Now they're on the skids again, here at the end of another decade.  But the trouble is, they are older than ever (duh!  :P ), and you have to ask yourself....is this it?  Have U2 overstayed their relevancy?  Are they finally going to "jump the shark" and become tired?  If there are any Seinfeld fans out there, I've always hoped that U2 would leave us before they peaked, just like that show.  Bow out a little too early rather than a little too late, when the varnish is taken off and the beauty of the career is marred.

Not saying I think they're there.  Actually, I think they've got another couple albums at least.  But I would hate to have them end on a down note, after such a remarkable and unmatched career.  Please noooooooo!!!!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 28, 2010, 08:05:16 PM
I dont know if I agree with the whole concept of bowing out before a crash... As an artist myself (writer), that kind of bothers me. Like I write one or two good books, then I write a bad one, then I write another good one, should I bow out before I I write too many bad ones? I mean, in theory, I could keep writing books until I'm 80. I guess music is different because it takes younger people to tour.... But still... The concept of "retirement" as an artist kind bothers me. An artist is one job in which someone shouldnt have to officially retire. What are U2 going to do once they retire?! It's not like Edge and Bono can just stop making music. They've got it in their blood. They'll keep writing until they are physically unable to do so.... That's the thing about art... it doesnt stop in your head because you have.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: birdlover on December 28, 2010, 09:18:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I dont know if I agree with the whole concept of bowing out before a crash... As an artist myself (writer), that kind of bothers me. Like I write one or two good books, then I write a bad one, then I write another good one, should I bow out before I I write too many bad ones? I mean, in theory, I could keep writing books until I'm 80. I guess music is different because it takes younger people to tour.... But still... The concept of "retirement" as an artist kind bothers me. An artist is one job in which someone shouldnt have to officially retire. What are U2 going to do once they retire?! It's not like Edge and Bono can just stop making music. They've got it in their blood. They'll keep writing until they are physically unable to do so.... That's the thing about art... it doesnt stop in your head because you have.

Well said, MarsGirl! I recall an interview with Stephen King. He'd recently decided to stop publishing his work, not because he'd stop writing, but because of all the extra stuff, editing, PR and the like, that went with it. Wouldn't you know, he's back publishing again...He never stopped writing.
I don't think U2 will ever want to stop touring and recording. I don't want to think about what will cause them to.There is something to be said to being older than your favorite band.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 28, 2010, 09:29:13 PM
You make a great point, MarsGirl!  Definitely all four of the guys would need to continue making music.  Like a writer would keep writing.  And like Jerry Seinfeld kept being a comedian.  My thought is that at some point, if U2 just goes and goes and goes, they are going to evolve into the antithesis of what U2 has always been.  Fresh, bold, innovative, important, relevant, popular, vibrant, etc.  To do what they've always done takes energy, stamina, the desire to put life on hold for a couple years at a time, to be out on the road, to push and promote.  Not every band needs to do these things so intensely, but U2 does.  Know what I mean?  At some point though, life does change.  Age and experience change your priorities, your perspectives.  At some point the guys in U2, if they stay together and active, won't want to tour so much, won't feel so rushed to make a new album, won't feel such a strong desire to tear it all down and start from scratch.  It's natural, I think.  But when all that happens, whenever it will be, U2 will have lost all semblance of U2.

I guess what I've always assumed is that U2 will be such a class act that they will bow out before making two crap records in a row, or before becoming something altogether un-U2-like.  Maybe they go their separate ways.  Maybe they stay together and casually record as Passengers, working with other musicians and doing things more for the fun of it.  But if they start making polka records in 10 years....ick!  I mean, I'm sure they would be the greatest polka records of all time, but still.  I've just always assumed, and still do, that at some point they will put U2 to bed rather than truly become a greatest hits touring band, in their 70s and doing their best to hit the same notes.  Or becoming totally out of touch and playing to county fairs.

An author will keep on writing, but at some point you might retire the character or the series you are best known for, because you've run through every idea you can, and you're starting to repeat yourself, and you don't care so much anymore to tackle all those months of research and effort to get to the end result.  And you don't want the legacy to suffer at the tail end of things, when it's all slipping.  You might just retire that series and start something altogether new.

I know this is off-topic.  And I don't want to sound like I've got my fingers crossed that U2 call it quits soon.  But I do hope they lower the curtain before they've grown to become a sad shadow of what they were, so that the last image we have of them in the media is of has-been old rockers.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: The Exile on December 28, 2010, 10:20:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You have a point Smee biggest doesn't mean the best. I have yet to hear most say the best tour probably in the last 2 years. The ROI, investments, and endorsements are indisputable but the question now remains after the tour will U2 be revelant and evolve or be label as your parents' band? If Spider-man flops and their 2-3 albums suck then the conversation will be "U2 used to have great music..." or "Why they becoming annoying..."

That's the scariest thought ever.  U2 is the shiniest example (maybe the only?) of a band who can be huge, popular, powerful, lasting, and evolving throughout their whole career.  They should have died after Rattle & Hum.  But they came back strong.  They should have died after Pop.  But they flared up again with "Beautiful Day."   Now they're on the skids again, here at the end of another decade.  But the trouble is, they are older than ever (duh!  :P ), and you have to ask yourself....is this it?  Have U2 overstayed their relevancy?  Are they finally going to "jump the shark" and become tired?  If there are any Seinfeld fans out there, I've always hoped that U2 would leave us before they peaked, just like that show.  Bow out a little too early rather than a little too late, when the varnish is taken off and the beauty of the career is marred.

Not saying I think they're there.  Actually, I think they've got another couple albums at least.  But I would hate to have them end on a down note, after such a remarkable and unmatched career.  Please noooooooo!!!!

Well, to accomplish what you suggest then they should definitely make 360 their final tour. There is no way they can top it. But I agree with you that they should continue to record and release music.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Chip on December 28, 2010, 10:39:34 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree. Audience members sitting down? Shouting louder for the old songs, not the new ones?

Still, I respect what U2 is doing here. The last two tours were all about the core fans. This is for the casual fans. It's a great spectacle and they get to see U2 in a stadium. I know, I know, the stadium is supposed to be U2's home, and no-one looks more comfortable than U2 performing in front of 70,000 people, but U2 is at its best in front of 20,000 people indoors where the music is louder and the fans are more hardcore and you can play songs like Miss Sarajevo, The Electric Co, BAD, The Fly etc and give the core fans a spine-tingling experience. This tour is not that tour. The next one probably will be. In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.

I see things flip-flopped, although I guess it depends on how you define "core fans." If you mean '80s fans who didn't like most of what U2 did in the '90s and welcomed ATYCLB as a return to form for U2, then yeah, the Elevation and Vertigo tours were largely, but not totally, for the "core fans." (There was also a clear attempt to win over younger audiences during those tours, particularly the Elevation tour.) But if you mean fans who love U2 across the decades (even if some albums less than others) and love lesser-known album tracks, then the Vertigo and 360 tours were/are far, far more for "core fans." The Elevation tour was almost totally a greatest hits package, supplemented by (normally six) songs from ATYCLB. Beyond the ATYCLB songs, the nightly Bono/Edge acoustic song, and "Gone," you could pick the rest of the songs from either The Best of 1980-1990 or Achtung Baby. (I'm not counting the very early dates when "Discotheque" and "Staring at the Sun" were briefly in the set list, but even they were the biggest hits off of POP.)

The Vertigo tour, in contrast, was daring to bring back "An Cat Dubh," "Into the Heart," and "The Electric Co.," not to mention (although briefly) "The Ocean" and "Gloria." Even "Running to Stand Still" was a little bit of a gamble after so long (and even more so its European tour alternative "Miss Sarajevo"). And I'm still surprised by people calling 360 a greatest hits tour, or more for a general audience, when we got "The Unforgettable Fire," "Ultraviolet (Light My Way)," "Your Blue Room," "In a Little While," "MLK," "Scarlet," "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me," and others.

I think we should be thankful that U2 has been either brave enough or comfortable enough with themselves to bring back older songs that are no longer well-known by general audiences (if they indeed ever were, as some were not) during the last two tours. Including these songs is no way to either win over a new audience or appeal to the masses.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: singnomore on December 28, 2010, 11:08:19 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree. Audience members sitting down? Shouting louder for the old songs, not the new ones?

Still, I respect what U2 is doing here. The last two tours were all about the core fans. This is for the casual fans. It's a great spectacle and they get to see U2 in a stadium. I know, I know, the stadium is supposed to be U2's home, and no-one looks more comfortable than U2 performing in front of 70,000 people, but U2 is at its best in front of 20,000 people indoors where the music is louder and the fans are more hardcore and you can play songs like Miss Sarajevo, The Electric Co, BAD, The Fly etc and give the core fans a spine-tingling experience. This tour is not that tour. The next one probably will be. In the meantime, sadly, this tour will be remembered as their best simply because it's about to go into the record books as the biggest music tour in history.

I see things flip-flopped, although I guess it depends on how you define "core fans." If you mean '80s fans who didn't like most of what U2 did in the '90s and welcomed ATYCLB as a return to form for U2, then yeah, the Elevation and Vertigo tours were largely, but not totally, for the "core fans." (There was also a clear attempt to win over younger audiences during those tours, particularly the Elevation tour.) But if you mean fans who love U2 across the decades (even if some albums less than others) and love lesser-known album tracks, then the Vertigo and 360 tours were/are far, far more for "core fans." The Elevation tour was almost totally a greatest hits package, supplemented by (normally six) songs from ATYCLB. Beyond the ATYCLB songs, the nightly Bono/Edge acoustic song, and "Gone," you could pick the rest of the songs from either The Best of 1980-1990 or Achtung Baby. (I'm not counting the very early dates when "Discotheque" and "Staring at the Sun" were briefly in the set list, but even they were the biggest hits off of POP.)

The Vertigo tour, in contrast, was daring to bring back "An Cat Dubh," "Into the Heart," and "The Electric Co.," not to mention (although briefly) "The Ocean" and "Gloria." Even "Running to Stand Still" was a little bit of a gamble after so long (and even more so its European tour alternative "Miss Sarajevo"). And I'm still surprised by people calling 360 a greatest hits tour, or more for a general audience, when we got "The Unforgettable Fire," "Ultraviolet (Light My Way)," "Your Blue Room," "In a Little While," "MLK," "Scarlet," "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me," and others.

I think we should be thankful that U2 has been either brave enough or comfortable enough with themselves to bring back older songs that are no longer well-known by general audiences (if they indeed ever were, as some were not) during the last two tours. Including these songs is no way to either win over a new audience or appeal to the masses.

I think we need to be careful about the definition of 'core fans'. I wouldn't bracket it on a decade basis. Core for me are the guys who want to hear 'album' tracks just because they get more to the band than just the 'hits'. However if it wasn't for the 'hits' there wouldn't be such an urge to hear the 'album' tracks. Its all self fulfilling.
If i use the definition of a core fan as someone who loves the 80's U2 - then I'm a core fan. The fact I like the other decades just some more than others perhaps confirms that definition (!?!) - dunno irrelevant i suggest - but I do know I want to hear Exit, Acrobat, Drowning Man, Stories for Boys, Red Hill, Mofo, Discotheque...etc

Lets face it we all want to hear U2 play there music and be able to see the guys play great music without needing binoculars!! We also want to hear our favourite tunes which in a lot of cases ain't the hits necessarily

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 29, 2010, 04:54:43 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You make a great point, MarsGirl!  Definitely all four of the guys would need to continue making music.  Like a writer would keep writing.  And like Jerry Seinfeld kept being a comedian.  My thought is that at some point, if U2 just goes and goes and goes, they are going to evolve into the antithesis of what U2 has always been.  Fresh, bold, innovative, important, relevant, popular, vibrant, etc.  To do what they've always done takes energy, stamina, the desire to put life on hold for a couple years at a time, to be out on the road, to push and promote.  Not every band needs to do these things so intensely, but U2 does.  Know what I mean?  At some point though, life does change.  Age and experience change your priorities, your perspectives.  At some point the guys in U2, if they stay together and active, won't want to tour so much, won't feel so rushed to make a new album, won't feel such a strong desire to tear it all down and start from scratch.  It's natural, I think.  But when all that happens, whenever it will be, U2 will have lost all semblance of U2.

I guess what I've always assumed is that U2 will be such a class act that they will bow out before making two crap records in a row, or before becoming something altogether un-U2-like.  Maybe they go their separate ways.  Maybe they stay together and casually record as Passengers, working with other musicians and doing things more for the fun of it.  But if they start making polka records in 10 years....ick!  I mean, I'm sure they would be the greatest polka records of all time, but still.  I've just always assumed, and still do, that at some point they will put U2 to bed rather than truly become a greatest hits touring band, in their 70s and doing their best to hit the same notes.  Or becoming totally out of touch and playing to county fairs.

An author will keep on writing, but at some point you might retire the character or the series you are best known for, because you've run through every idea you can, and you're starting to repeat yourself, and you don't care so much anymore to tackle all those months of research and effort to get to the end result.  And you don't want the legacy to suffer at the tail end of things, when it's all slipping.  You might just retire that series and start something altogether new.

I know this is off-topic.  And I don't want to sound like I've got my fingers crossed that U2 call it quits soon.  But I do hope they lower the curtain before they've grown to become a sad shadow of what they were, so that the last image we have of them in the media is of has-been old rockers.

Leonard Cohen never quit writing, singing. I think he's still out there playing places. Okay, he's not as big as U2.... But he's an example of an artist that never went away.

I agree with you to some extent, retiring the character. I would hope, though, they didnt do it officially, just kind of fade away... Maybe Bono and Edge get more into side projects (like Broadway or something) and the other guys circle off on their own. I dont know. But, admittedly, they've always done great movie soundtrack stuff. I guess they could be running around making music behind the scenes.

I dont want to think about that day, though. I personally think they are still on fire. It's just a different kind of fire. Bono's voice is better than it's been since JT. I think it's awesome.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 29, 2010, 07:36:58 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Vertigo tour, in contrast, was daring to bring back "An Cat Dubh," "Into the Heart," and "The Electric Co.," not to mention (although briefly) "The Ocean" and "Gloria." Even "Running to Stand Still" was a little bit of a gamble after so long (and even more so its European tour alternative "Miss Sarajevo"). And I'm still surprised by people calling 360 a greatest hits tour, or more for a general audience, when we got "The Unforgettable Fire," "Ultraviolet (Light My Way)," "Your Blue Room," "In a Little While," "MLK," "Scarlet," "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me," and others.

Part of me is still shocked that they pulled those songs out for that tour.  Shocked in a good way.  Confused might be more appropriate.  Here they were, hitting the TV and airways hard with the Vertigo single and the iPod deal, making a grab for new, young fans, and in the midst of all that....pulling out songs that would not only be unknown to those new fans, but are also difficult to work into big rock shows.  ACD and The Ocean?  Cool for me!  And just as a side note, I think the version they did of RTSS that made it to the DVD was completely fantastic.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 29, 2010, 07:47:20 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Leonard Cohen never quit writing, singing. I think he's still out there playing places. Okay, he's not as big as U2.... But he's an example of an artist that never went away.

I don't pretend that my thoughts stray beyond U2 to music in general.  There's something so unique about them that I treat them separately.  I think it's because most bands record lots and lots of crap along the way -- usually it's mostly crap, hope that doesn't sound pessimistic!  ::) -- so when they get crap and sentimental and cliche towards the end of their career, well....it's no big surprise.

Not that I'm lumping Leonard in there!  You're right, he's still out there in full force, touring and all.  So is Dylan.  So is Van.  I think those three would get grouped together pretty easily as some of the greatest songwriters of all time.  Maybe a band is a different organism altogether?  I remember one time talking to someone who was a musician and a Dylan fan, and if you could have seen the disgust and contempt in his eyes when I discussed Bono and Bob in the same breath as lyricists....oh boy!  :D  But I'll stand by our man as a phenomenal, instinctive writer.

If U2 does at some point call it quits, and while they're still riding the critical and popularity high that (at the very least) Bono aims for so vocally, then they will leave behind a legacy that will be unmatched forever.  The Beatles called it quits incredibly early in their career, but they did so much in that time at such a high level.  What would have happened if they'd kept going?  What would have happened to their legacy if they went down hill?  Elvis is a legend, but his career and fame really only skyrocketed after his death.  Bono talks often of his "comeback tour" when he was older, fatter, trying to rise up from obscurity after his few moments of initial fame, and how poignant a character he was.  The Rolling Stones have been discussed recently.  They are still selling out massively at concerts, but it's been decades since they've been known for original material.  You can look at less iconic but still very popular acts who have been very popular for decades -- like the RHCP and Dave Matthews Band, etc.  But as we all know, U2 is in a different league.  They are up there with the biggest acts in history, and they're doing something none of them have ever done.  Like you said, MarsGirl, they're still on fire.  Album after album.  Tour after tour.  Decade after decade.  Maybe, if they DO call it quits, they will be The Beatles on a much longer scale.  In other words, they will retire and then Edge will form a new band called Wings  ;D
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: MarsGirl on December 29, 2010, 10:29:04 AM
Crossing Go, I agree with what you said. And it's funny... I was talking to one of my friends a few weeks back--someone who *I* converted to a U2 fan by exposing him to the band--and I had just made him a CD full of some rarities that he'd never heard (cuz he just has some of the albums, having only recently become a fan, so I grabbed some stuff from Passengers, The Million Dollar Hotel, some singles, etc.). And he said, "Man, listening to this, I'm just so impressed with the amazing team of The Edge and Bono... I just wonder what would have happened if The Beatles had never split." So, you know, it was like he made the same analogy to the longevity of U2 as compared to The Beatles. I'd never thought of it that way, but he was right. U2 is THAT kind of band. And I, like you, classify them in a different category to the rest of the world. But then, I'm kind of a far-gone super-fan now... I dont think like everyone else. But no one else's music does what U2's does to me... I keep looking! Cuz it'd be great to have two or three great bands that I enjoy equally as much!! I do listen to a lot of great music, but my top 25 playlist on the Ipod says it all when about 18 of the songs on it are by U2...
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on December 29, 2010, 10:40:23 AM
Hahahah!  Thanks for that message, MarsGirl.  My Top 25 list sounds like yours!
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2010, 04:56:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The Vertigo tour, in contrast, was daring to bring back "An Cat Dubh," "Into the Heart," and "The Electric Co.," not to mention (although briefly) "The Ocean" and "Gloria." Even "Running to Stand Still" was a little bit of a gamble after so long (and even more so its European tour alternative "Miss Sarajevo"). And I'm still surprised by people calling 360 a greatest hits tour, or more for a general audience, when we got "The Unforgettable Fire," "Ultraviolet (Light My Way)," "Your Blue Room," "In a Little While," "MLK," "Scarlet," "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me," and others.

Part of me is still shocked that they pulled those songs out for that tour.  Shocked in a good way.  Confused might be more appropriate.  Here they were, hitting the TV and airways hard with the Vertigo single and the iPod deal, making a grab for new, young fans, and in the midst of all that....pulling out songs that would not only be unknown to those new fans, but are also difficult to work into big rock shows.  ACD and The Ocean?  Cool for me!  And just as a side note, I think the version they did of RTSS that made it to the DVD was completely fantastic.

I agree. And what all of this shows is that U2 intentionally picks songs for its concerts that go together thematically on the lyrical end -- a trait for which I love them. On that level, 360 hangs together far, far better than people tend to acknowledge.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: xy on December 31, 2010, 06:06:22 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I paid £150 for a great seat at the O2 arena in London to see The Stones in 2007, but I'll be damned if I'd pay the £150 being charged for a ticket to see U2360 at Wembley Stadium.  I would, however, happily pay £150 to see U2 at the O2.

In 1994/95, 6 Million people bought a copy of the Stones Voodoo Lounge and 6.6 Million went to see the Voodoo lounge tour.

In 2009/11, 4 Million people bought a copy of U2's No Line On The Horizon and between 7 - 8 Million will have seen the 360 by tour end.

What does these figures suggest?





You prefer arenas to stadiums.

In the same point of their career/same age, more people will go see U2 compared to the Stones.

I thought you might have concluded that U2 sell almost 2 concert tickets for every copy of their new music sold, where as the Stones, at the same point in their career, sold nearly 1 album of their new music for every concert ticket sold.

What does that suggest?






More people will go see U2 compared to the Stones. Like I said a little while ago ?

I also think it's noteworthy that the Stones comeback album sold only a million more copies than U2's quickie, mid-tour EP-turned album.



Then it can't be a comeback album then. ::) Voodoo Lounge, on the othe hand, sold 6 million copies - 2 million more than NLOTH - at the same stage of their careers as U2 today.



That was a typo - I was thinking of Steel Wheels rather than Vodoo Loung with the comeback album.

But again, while U2 may be the same age with NLOTH as the Stones with Voodoo Lounge, the album sales have changed drastically in the years between the release of the two albums.

Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: Yukona [The League of Extraordinary Bonopeople] on January 04, 2011, 07:40:00 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree 100% that U2 should stop playing their greatest hits like Scarlet, Ultraviolet, Your Blue Room and The Unforgettable Fire. Man, those songs are so totally overplayed.

 :D  :D  :D  Yeah, it is odd to hear 360 referred to as a "greatest hits tour" when they're regularly pulling out old songs that many in the crowd have never heard and brand new songs that most people have never heard.  Still, it is clear at least that 360 is not in support of a specific album.  I think that is a huge and groundbreaking thing, and a statement in and of itself.

And a pointless one at that. Not much added content from the stage, just a "Look how big our spacejunk is" showiness that fits only creakily with our economically challenged times. It's probably a midlife crisis thing that they hopefully get over come the next album or the one after... 

As for the rare songs, it's entertaining but they replaced a focused batch of finished songs with semi rehearsed (sometimes poorly performed to be honest) rarities and admittedly and audibly unfinished ditties, often in a two-piece format, that might or might not resurface later.

I'm glad they're having fun, but this tour is in fact dinosaur band territory.

Semi-rehearsed and poorly performed? What on earth are you talking about? Ultraviolet, Unforgettable Fire, HMTMKMKM. These are songs that were pretty much built into the core of the set list--the screen opens up at TUF, the laser jacket at Ultraviolet. Do you see the Stones building their set designs around songs they haven't played in 20 years?
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on January 04, 2011, 07:55:50 AM
I wrote and meant rarities, like Scarlet and Love Rescue Me, which I think were underwhelming both in choice and execution, and the unfinished new songs, North Star, EBW and Mercy, but this is my personal opinion.
UV, HTMKMKM and TUF are not what I meant, you pulled them out of your hat to suit your needs, Yukona. Don't fight me over something you made up.
I did not compare U2 to the Stones in that post either, but I do mean they are out of touch with themselves and with the times. They like their shows big, but I like their shows with added content which is in context with the music. 360° is not the best they can come up with, and it doesn't depend on age before anyone starts on that.
How big the shows are should depend on the audience they choose to play to, but nothing to do with the themes and undercurrents in the visuals.
 
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: CrossingGo on January 04, 2011, 08:26:21 AM
Here's what I love about U2, and I think it's the reason that they have always been so popular.  They are not "out of touch" -- they are, as they have always been, out of step.  It's the reason they've always sounded different, and always been able to reinvent their sound.  It's the reason they've always sounded different and stuck out.  They don't follow the times or the trends, they go their own way, and that's a lot more difficult than it sounds.  :)

On a different note...I had a realization recently about what made NLOTH difficult for me, and what also might make the live shows challenging.  I know that at least Lanois and I'm sure Eno have performed subtle backing instrumental parts in the past for U2, but U2's recordings have always been primarily U2.  The 4 guys.  To have them perform and write with the band changed the dynamic, noticeably.  You can feel those two guys' impacts on certain songs.  I was never able to get into Eno's solo music.  I do really enjoy Lanois' stuff -- especially Here Is What Is.  But his stuff is different from U2's.  I think a big part of the reason why I haven't been able to connect to the music on NLOTH is that contribution.  It really changed the mix.  And since that mix is what created the album, 6 musicians, that must be a challenge to morph that back into a straight U2 event.
Title: Re: Brace yourself....it may shock...but its how i feel
Post by: satellitedog01 on January 04, 2011, 08:50:33 AM
The two guys have been a part of the writing team since before No Line times I guess, either by active musicianship (Lanoise played guitar on some ATYCLB tracks, he said in an interview in a Guitar magazine at the time) or by advice.

I see what you mean with being "out of step", but I find it only partially applies. They were sometimes out of step, sometimes in step, and when they were "in" it worked very well. Zoo Tv Popmart.
360° as it was after surgery, is a celebration and a money making enterprise for U2. I'm not sure how badly it would've damaged U2 financially if they cancelled all the 2010 dates, but money is an important factor. Also the ticket prices are insane, compared to all previous tours. There are most likely threads dealing with the financing/ticketpricing Live Nation aspects of 360° so I won't dig up old information, but it is not a nice move to scale the whole thing up knowing the audience will pay whatever price they ask, regardless of the provided experience of the show in harder economic circumstances.
 
About the stage, I don't think an expanding screen is exciting, even less as it doesn't work properly as a screen when expanded, it's a lot of shards of pictures. It's a disco gimmick and not a great one either... The "claw" looks nice in airial shots though, watched on TV or a screen, so kudos for that. :-)

I hope after 360° if they do stadiums, and if they build a big set, they will provide something interesting and integral to the show.