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U2 => General U2 Discussion => Topic started by: jick on February 03, 2009, 06:40:25 AM

Title: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 03, 2009, 06:40:25 AM
I have been aware that ever since U2's renaissance in All That You Can't Leave Behind in 2000, they gained so many new fans from the younger generation.

When this new generations of listeners want to learn more about U2, they usually just buy The Best Of 1980-1990, or The Best Of 1990-2000 or U218.  However, none of them show U2's most "turbulent period" because even in The Best Of 1990-2000 - the Pop songs are already finished and not in their original "unfinished" state.

U2 has done a good job of hiding/concealing POP for the newcomers, while for the old fans U2 have virtually disowned the album by remixing every vital track there.

Being a U2 historian, I think it is only fair that the newbies get educated about this U2 album.  Reading this can also help us prepare for the coming of the new album.  So now, I want to do a service to the forum members by putting in excerpts of some out-of-print U2 cover articles from Q magazine.

I hope you learn from this read.  I will not interject my opinions or comments - maybe I will further down the thread.  I will let you readers give your own opinions first.  Here you go:
------------

Q MAGAZINE, MARCH 1997: POP (article snippets)

Larry Mullen Jr: "I'm just, like, trying to find clarity, y'know.  Some people have now heard the record and they want to talk about it and I just feel . . . (grimaces) I just need a week. Having said that, it's very hard to find a place for this record.  It doesn't have that sort of grounding that maybe some of the other records have.  So that's my problem."

------------

Q MAGAZINE, NOVEMBER 2000: ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND (article snippets)

After Pop, a record no member of U2 will now describe as "finished", came the deluge.

Larry Mullen Jr: "I remember after the Pop record being so gutted that Staring At The Sun. . . it should have been a f****** huge single but we didn't have time to finish it properly.  And I remember having to do interviews, and being asked what the album was about and [does mean dog eyes] I had no. . . f******. . . idea.  All I knew was that if we'd had one more month we could have pulled that song through."

Popmart was the crucible out of which U2 plucked All That You Can't Leave Behind.

Larry Mullen Jr: "I'm under no illusions about the difficulty of recapturing ground that we've lost."

------------

Q MAGAZINE, NOVEMBER 2002: BEST OF 1990-2000 (article snippets)


...It's clear that, re-energised by the creative and commercial rebirth of 2000's All That You Can't Leave Behind, progress on the band's latest studio album (which would be How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb) is cracking along apace.

"We're on a roll," Edge nods. "It's getting more like the early U2 records.  Really simple, stripped-down arrangements.  That's what we're hungry for - music with that life-force."

Of course, U2 haven't always had it this easy, as spotlit by an airing of a meaty remix of Staring At The Sun, a song from 1997's troubled Pop album - still the high watermark of U2's frustration.  Suffering from what Bono describes as "death by mid-tempo", it's the one tune that the band could never get to work. Tellingly, it's one of four new "revisionist" remixes (along with Discotheque, Numb and Gone) that appear on Best Of 1990-2000, their second collection of hits and key album tracks due on November.

For U2, the years 1990 to 2000 represent a troubled era in the group's history.  It was a decade of wild experimentalism, intra-band friction, ambitiously realised stage shows and skin-of-their-teeth live performances, of parties-out bass players and rush-released albums.

...

The [Passengers] album also tested the relationship between U2 and producer Brian Eno, and the accusation lingers that with Passengers, U2 went "too Eno".

"At that moment in time, both Brian and the band felt that it would be good to have a break from each other, " says Edge, a little cagily. "But it was more a case of, Let's try to make a different kind of record now."

And so began the most turbulent period in U2's history.  The quartet built a team comprising Flood, Howie B and Massive Attack producer Nellee Hooper.  While the initial exploratory sessions for the Pop album - which kicked off in summer 1995, with loops employed as a replacement for Mullen (who was recovering from a back injury) - proved interesting, it wasn't long before U2 realised they'd dug themselves into a hole.

Edge: "We were in a position where Larry had to take time off and it seemed like, Hey,here we have a bunch of people who..."

Mullen:" ... Know how to use drum machines."

Edge: " ...Who generally use samples, so let's start the project like that.  But when we got to the mixes using the loops, it was like the heart and soul was missing.  I remember turning round to Flood saying, Why is this sounding so flat and lifeless?  What are we missing? And he said, The band! And it was suddenly, lik, Ah... right... OK.  He sussed it before anyone else."

Flood: "All of the records that I've worked with them on, it doesn't matter how much experimentation's been involved, the core has always been the four of them playing together in a room.  That was one of the things that threw the album off on a tangent that it never managed to get back from.

"It was the band at their most fractured," he continues.  "You've got Larry who's struggling with his health, then Adam and Nellee weren't seeing eye to eye, then Edge wanting to rediscover the guitar and finding it difficult, then Bono's tendency to come in and vibe things up."

Factor in the added pressure of scheduling a tour that would top Zoo TV, and the atmosphere built to dangerously stormy levels.  Then U2 committed a cardinal sin.

Mullen: "We did that thing we always tell younger bands not to do.  Which is book a tour before the record's finished."

"How about never put out the record 'til you've finished the record," Paul McGuiness notes, wryly.

This was the crux of the problem: U2 had run out of time and were now forced into releasing an incomplete album.

"By the end, it was just becoming a blind panic," Flood remembers.  "I felt I'd let the band and myself down.  Unfortunately when you're making a record with U2, it's a very high-profile place to make a mistake."

"It was like, Oh my God, this record isn't very good," Mullen confesses.  "But that was because of the time constraints. If we'd had an extra month, we'd have been able to do a lot more with some of the songs."

----------


Cheers,

J


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 03, 2009, 06:46:29 AM
hahaha looks you finally did some research!
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's rhythm section and willingness to experiment
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 07:59:23 AM
just goes to show how true the old adage about musicians being the worst people to judge their own music is.

Pop routinely beats out atyclb in fan polls.

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 03, 2009, 08:01:19 AM
ATYCLB is miles better than POP
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 08:03:57 AM
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ATYCLB is miles better than POP

No it's not
Yes it is
No it's not

ad nauseum

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 08:15:14 AM
Pop is preferred over atyclb by hard core u2 fans (we do have taste,   ;D )


http://u2.interference.com/f288/best-album-survivor-round-viii-192712.html


http://u2.interference.com/f288/worst-album-survivor-round-ix-192286.html


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's rhythm section and willingness to experiment
Post by: jick on February 03, 2009, 08:28:42 AM
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just goes to show how true the old adage about musicians being the worst people to judge their own music is.

Pop routinely beats out atyclb in fan polls.



Worldwide sales and awards garnered are better gauges to me than "fan polls."
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: braxhunt on February 03, 2009, 08:30:27 AM
Just a note that in those links pop won the poll for least favorite album. Personally pop is my favorite though.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 03, 2009, 08:31:10 AM
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Pop is preferred over atyclb by hard core u2 fans (we do have taste,   ;D )


http://u2.interference.com/f288/best-album-survivor-round-viii-192712.html


http://u2.interference.com/f288/worst-album-survivor-round-ix-192286.html




Unfortunately, U2 makes music for the millions who buy their album and not the mere thousands who are in online forums.  The number of units any given U2 album sells in its first day greatly outnumbers the number of total forum members in all online U2 forums combined.  We are all statistically insignificant to U2 in the bigger scheme of things.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Nagrom99 on February 03, 2009, 08:42:23 AM
terrible thread.....this will go on forever.  No one can say which one is better, and pretend they're right.  This is up to the individual.  I like both albums...but If I was on a desert island and given a choice.....Actually, I don't know, I was going to say POP, but I love Kite so much....who knows....who cares...people are going to like what they're going to like.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 09:14:18 AM


You're reading the polls wrong, it's a bit confusing, but basically Pop is the poll takers' 4th favorite album.

Sure, other records have sold more, but those 'fans' then move on to other things and don't stay with the band. If they did then all JT and AB buyers would still be with the band, but sales/attendances ebb and flow and they don't.

I guess it depends if you measure the artistic success of their records by sales, in which case Miley Cyrus then becomes a serious musical force, or if you gauge on how much staying power it has with their real fans.



Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 03, 2009, 09:52:55 AM
This thread won't go on forever.

This is not for the fans here to argue for the nth time if POP is good or bad.

My purpose for starting this thread is to educate the new fans (the ATYCLB and after ones) on how the band really feels about POP.

So this thread is more about U2's opinion than it is about our personal opinions.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Nagrom99 on February 03, 2009, 09:53:30 AM
copy that.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 10:03:45 AM
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My purpose for starting this thread is to educate the new fans (the ATYCLB and after ones) on how the band really feels about POP.


And my purpose for continuing it will be to show how the FANS, the fans who love U2 so much that they join U2 forums such as this, feel about it.

So, @u2 member, so far your peer group has Pop as it's favorite album over atyclb by an 8:1 margin, so go buy it and take some quality time and really listen to it.

As Jick's favorite musical-source-magazine says about it:

"What we can say immediately is that Pop sounds absolutely magnificent"

"With Pop, they've defied the odds and made some of the greatest music of their lives"

And they gave it the same rating they did atyclb, 4 stars.

Here's some other things U2 said about it:

Q Magazine, March 1997


Pop, Pop, Pop Music

U2's New Album, Track by Track

DISCOTHEQUE The first single, complete with "boom"-enriched outro and accompanying video featuring soon-to-be-legendary appearance of U2 as the Village People. Bono: "When we were recording that, we had the whole studio in mirrorballs and disco lights."

DO YOU FEEL LOVED Heavy groove-based rocker in the tradition of "Even Better Than The Real Thing." Very likely single. Wry personal reference suspected in the opening lines:"Take these hands they're good for nothing/You know these hands never worked a day."

MOFO Sonic assault as U2 are possessed by the twin spirits of Underworld and The Prodigy, with Bono at his most cathartic. Breakneck double-tracked drumming quite likely the highlight of Larry Mullen's recorded career.

IF GOD WILL SEND HIS ANGELS Slow-winding ballad constructed around a title that existed during Zooropa sessions. Bono: "It's this guy beating up his girlfriend about her searching for answers and just telling her to look around. It's like science fiction gospel. Edge is calling it country hip-hop."

STARING AT THE SUN Infectious, sky-scraping pop song with echoes of Ray Davies and Bowie's Soul Love. Notable alone for middle eight couplet, "referee won't blow the whistle/God is good but will he listen?" Dead-cert summer number one.

LAST NIGHT ON EARTH U2 play Oasis at their own game. Steaming rocker with powerful Beatle-y chorus. The last track to be finished, with vocals recorded at 7am on the day of the album cut. Bono: "It felt like the last night on earth, alright."

GONE Soaring uplifter oddly reminiscent of The Verve, replete with darkly spiritual lyric. Likely to be emotional highpoint of candlelight vigil if U2's plane ever goes down. Edge: "There's many layers to that song and there's another level to it which I haven't figured yet."

MIAMI The strangest track of all. Electro experimental before Mullen kicks in with weighty John Bonham-styled groove. Lyrical snapshots of a band trip to Florida in spring '96. Edge: "It's sort of creative tourism."

THE PLAYBOY MANSION Touching tale of lottery playing average Joe fantasising about gaining entry to Hugh Hefner's private Disneyland, set to '60's flavoured trip-hop. Return to knowingly delivered truisms in verses, including the maybe libellous, "If coke is a mystery/Michael Jackson.....History."

IF YOU WEAR THAT VELVET DRESS Muted and frankly, horny ballad with echoes of Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game." Something for the weekend. Edge: "That was a song that basically came out of improvisation with Nellee Hooper."

PLEASE Shuffly meandering and moody bid-pacer. Edge: "One of the most intricate pieces of music we've ever written."

WAKE UP DEAD MAN Spaghetti-western atmosphere bristling with distant radio voices. A distorted Bono voices his frustration to Jesus "I'm alone in this world/And a f*cked up world it is too."
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 10:23:14 AM
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This thread won't go on forever.

This is not for the fans here to argue for the nth time if POP is good or bad.

My purpose for starting this thread is to educate the new fans (the ATYCLB and after ones) on how the band really feels about POP.

So this thread is more about U2's opinion than it is about our personal opinions.

Cheers,

J


Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album? So what if its their least favorite, or they think it is their worst. We as fans are, like everyone else in the world, entitlied to our own opinions! I love Pop, it is my favorite U2 album by an absolute MILE - I love all their albums, they are all fantastic pieces of work and I listen to all of them all the time, but if someone asks me which one is my favorite, Ill bloody well tell them, and I dont care who agrees or disagrees with me whether it's the band themselves or U2 fans who prefer other albums! I will never try to convert anyone to my thoughs or taste, and no-one else should either.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 10:59:18 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"




Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 11:04:28 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"






Exactly. And isn't it a great feeling that our beloved band has so many incredible fans with such a wide range of tastes? One of my favorite things in the whole world, and some of the best discussions I have ever had in my life have been in GA lines at U2 shows. The discussions I have had on the music of our band have been priceless. Favorites, not so favorites, their best, their worst (is there one?  ;)). Would't the world be a boring place (and this forum too) if all U2 fans (and non fans) had the same fovorite and agreed on their best?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 03, 2009, 11:15:38 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"


That is standard practice for all bands to say with their latest album.  Curiously enough, U2 didn't say that about POP during their Q Magazine interviews.  As you can see from the quote of Mullen from 1997, even he did not know what POP was about.  And in 2000, he definitely admitted how he was struggling to describe POP during those POP interview days.

Also, the significant thing here is not how POP ranks among U2's favorite albums.  But more about the fact that they all consider POP "unfinished" which makes POP better compared to the Achtung Baby Outtakes.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Nagrom99 on February 03, 2009, 11:20:00 AM
huh?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 11:27:43 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"


That is standard practice for all bands to say with their latest album.  Curiously enough, U2 didn't start saying that until after they started making weaker albums like atyclb




Here's what they said about Pop

http://www.u2station.com/news/archives/1997/03/index.php

Oh, and your @u2 peer group has spoken, Pop is better.

Cheers,

J

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Izzy on February 03, 2009, 11:34:40 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"

there's really little comparison to the Achtung Baby outtakes, you're talking about formalized songs as opposed to Bono wandering through melody ideas, basic drum and bass parts with veryy infrequent polish or post production.


That is standard practice for all bands to say with their latest album.  Curiously enough, U2 didn't start saying that until after they started making weaker albums like atyclb




Here's what they said about Pop

http://www.u2station.com/news/archives/1997/03/index.php

Oh, and your @u2 peer group has spoken, Pop is better.

Cheers,

J


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Whoah10115 on February 03, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
Pop is one of the great records. I hear the problems in production, and I realize things were rushed. But the "finished" versions of Discotheque and Staring At The Sun don't touch the originals. The new version of Gone might actually be better, except it's missing that great Larry drum part. I don't understand why that was removed. Also, I just realized a few weeks ago how spectacularly multilayered Edge's guitar is on the album cut.

ATYCLB is an astonishing record. I've gone back and forth and which I think is better. But they, along with The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby, are the best U2 have done so far. At its best, lyrically, it might rank higher. Though I do agree if they had another two weeks or so the album could have been even better. But another few years and they lost the plot on what is better. Though I still appreciate the new mixes.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 03, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
Pop is a great, great album. Anyone who judges music on sales and awards can kiss my.......whats wrong with you? Music to me is the greatest proof that we are more than flesh and blood and your judging it by money and fixed, right wing sponsored award shows????

Ill judge it by its ability to move ME. The texture, melodies and lyrics on that record are outstanding. It still sounds great today! Its dark, dense and funky, but its definitely NOT for cowboys.

As discussed in another thread its so-called 'unfinished' state is part of its charm. Its a brave album for U2 to put out, put any other band in that position and a return to tried and tested formulas would certainly be the result. Im proud of what U2 did at that time.

Lets hope that NLOTH can join the likes of Unforgetable Fire, Achtung Baby & Pop - Not a Grammy between them, but brave, heartbreaking, expansive soulful music that will always stand as the best evidence of why U2 are up there with the greats.

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's rhythm section and willingness to experiment
Post by: TheWaqman on February 03, 2009, 01:08:33 PM
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just goes to show how true the old adage about musicians being the worst people to judge their own music is.

Pop routinely beats out atyclb in fan polls.



Yes! QFT! To be honest I think it's pretty lame how they treat Pop like some crap album and had to tweak all the songs. It's miles above Atomic Bomb and All that you can't leave behind.

Same people who hated Pop are probably also the same idiots who hated Kid A.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's rhythm section and willingness to experiment
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 01:11:56 PM
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just goes to show how true the old adage about musicians being the worst people to judge their own music is.

Pop routinely beats out atyclb in fan polls.



Yes! QFT! To be honest I think it's pretty lame how they treat Pop like some crap album and had to tweak all the songs. It's miles above Atomic Bomb and All that you can't leave behind.

Same people who hated Pop are probably also the same idiots who hated Kid A.

Hey Wagman - no idiots on here, just people with their differing opinions  :) Lets all be nice.
Agree with your first sentence though, completely.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Nagrom99 on February 03, 2009, 01:20:55 PM
can someone explain the "changes in the songs"  Has there been a re-issue?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: DGordon1 on February 03, 2009, 01:48:26 PM
In the best of 1990-2000 album, the Pop songs were tweaked. Including inexplicably removing the "boom-chas" from Discotheque. I think most fans were underwhelmed at the remixes; Pop was excellent as it was. Now the Popmart Tour is a different issue ...
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 02:01:06 PM
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In the best of 1990-2000 album, the Pop songs were tweaked. Including inexplicably removing the "boom-chas" from Discotheque. I think most fans were underwhelmed at the remixes; Pop was excellent as it was. Now the Popmart Tour is a different issue ...

What was wrong with Popmart? Biggest regret in my life was missing this tour (work reasons) - but from the numerous DVD's & videos and the 32 live bootlegs I have from that tour - It's AWESOME - think of these for a moment - Please leading into Streets, Mofo opening the show after a great impression of Mike Tyson, by Bono, Edges Karaoke, Miami live - the screen, the arch, the mirrorball lemon - UNREAL! Everything about it. Did not better ZooTV, but pushed it damn close.
(And yes - out of all those bootlegs I have, half are from the US and half from the rest of the world, and because of awful audience participation and very low crowds/attendance - the US shows were not as good (except for the last date in Seattle - awesome show!)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: DGordon1 on February 03, 2009, 02:09:09 PM
I thought it was very fun and entertaining. But it was just daft imho. I thought ZooTV was eccentric, but also a work of genius. I can't say the same about Popmart. And Bono's vocals were a bit iffy at times. It does seem however, that after the first few shows it got progressively better. A U2 concert's always special, but sometimes when I'm looking back at Popmart I question what the relevance in it was. I'm not sure anybody knew, the band included.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 02:12:52 PM
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I thought it was very fun and entertaining. But it was just daft imho. I thought ZooTV was eccentric, but also a work of genius. I can't say the same about Popmart. And Bono's vocals were a bit iffy at times. It does seem however, that after the first few shows it got progressively better. A U2 concert's always special, but sometimes when I'm looking back at Popmart I question what the relevance in it was. I'm not sure anybody knew, the band included.

I hear you, great response, and your last sentence - I totally agree! But that kinda made it exciting too. Glad we can have an intelligent converasation though on this.
Roll on the next tour  :)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 02:15:41 PM
Regardless of the Relevancy or message, some of the latter performances rank with U2's best EVER.

Santiago and Leeds come to mind, and Sarajevo is carried along on emotion alone, I've never heard anything like it before, Bono's voice was just completely dead.

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 02:21:39 PM
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Regardless of the Relevancy or message, some of the latter performances rank with U2's best EVER.

Santiago and Leeds come to mind, and Sarajevo is carried along on emotion alone, I've never heard anything like it before, Bono's voice was just completely dead.



I have both the bootlegs, you can hardly hear Bono sing because his voice is so shot. Brilliant! The crowds were awesome  :)
Fantastic shows, all three you mention.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: DGordon1 on February 03, 2009, 02:25:19 PM
And Edge singing Sunday Bloody Sunday was a nice surprise.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 03, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
Yes, second best version of this song, after Rattle & Hum version (IMHO)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 03, 2009, 04:14:58 PM
"Their most turbulent period"???

And what About Adam not playing in Sydney?

And what about the fights during the recording of Achtung Baby?

Look mate, you don't like POP, ok. But don't try to converts those who like it. YOU ARE TIRING!!

U2 have made a regression in their music because they saw the idiot you have in your profile pic live , playing adolescent rock and they wanted to be as "cool" as him. And Jovi said that on Q as well. And if that's true, that the biggest band in the world get inspiration from a moron is not turbulent. It's pathetic!

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: achtungespresso on February 03, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
Some people will say that ATYCLB is the best, some will say that Pop is. I personally think it's a matter of personal opinion.
As Oscar said on the Office: "When people debate they simply get even more entrenched in their own views."
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 03, 2009, 04:30:49 PM
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"Their most turbulent period"???

And what About Adam not playing in Sydney?

And what about the fights during the recording of Achtung Baby?

Look mate, you don't like POP, ok. But don't try to converts those who like it. YOU ARE TIRING!!

U2 have made a regression in their music because they saw the idiot you have in your profile pic live , playing adolescent rock and they wanted to be as "cool" as him. And Jovi said that on Q as well. And if that's true, that the biggest band in the world get inspiration from a moron is not turbulent. It's pathetic!



In Rock, turbulence can great. See any interview with the Who, U2's arguments with Eno during JT, the constant friction between Lennon/McCartney, the frequent coming-to-blows between Ulrich and Hetfield, Page or Keef's drug problems, having to record in a freezing, damp run down hotel with electricity coming in from an outside generator (deep purple), dealing with a death in the band and a new guy with writer's block (Back in Black), the list goes on and on

 
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Izzy on February 03, 2009, 04:31:34 PM
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In the best of 1990-2000 album, the Pop songs were tweaked. Including inexplicably removing the "boom-chas" from Discotheque. I think most fans were underwhelmed at the remixes; Pop was excellent as it was. Now the Popmart Tour is a different issue ...

They rerecorded parts of them, made them more like the tunes on all that you can't leave behind. I thought they were fine the way they were.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 03, 2009, 04:32:23 PM
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Some people will say that ATYCLB is the best, some will say that Pop is. I personally think it's a matter of personal opinion.
As Oscar said on the Office: "When people debate they simply get even more entrenched in their own views."

true but my real point in here is, please  don't try to make me feel whatI don't feel. It's like believe in God: some people do, some people don't,. like me. They chose to believe, they have been taught in believing, I haven't. Please don't try to MAKE ME BELIEVE because, If I don't have a feeling for that, I CAN'T BELIEVE!!!!!!

and the "most turbulent period" bit was also over the top. A core U2 fan who doesn't know about U2...

Rubbish.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Zoonationalist on February 04, 2009, 01:20:36 AM
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Does it really matter what the band thinks of the album?

Every band when they release a new album: "this is the best thing we've ever done, this is truly the album we were meant to make"

there's really little comparison to the Achtung Baby outtakes, you're talking about formalized songs as opposed to Bono wandering through melody ideas, basic drum and bass parts with veryy infrequent polish or post production.


That is standard practice for all bands to say with their latest album.  Curiously enough, U2 didn't start saying that until after they started making weaker albums like atyclb




Here's what they said about Pop

http://www.u2station.com/news/archives/1997/03/index.php

Oh, and your @u2 peer group has spoken, Pop is better.

Cheers,

J


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: spanner on February 04, 2009, 02:34:18 AM
i just don't see the point of this thread at all ... what has a few quotes on the bands opinion of an album 12 years ago got to do with educating new fans ? how will this prepare them for a new album ? for me i just don't get the whole pop wasn't finished thing.okay they made a mistake with trying to start a huge world tour while still finishing of the album.but the songs don't seem half finished for me !please,do you feel loved,discotheque,mofo .staring at the sun.these songs don't have the feel of being half finished! its not my favourite u2 album but there are some great songs on there for me. if anything after this album the band might have become abit to comfortable and played it safe and not pushed themselves on the last two albums , but thats a matter of opinion .
as for worldwide sales ! they don't mean sh*t,anybody who is a REAL fan of u2 know that they don't make albums to sell 16 milion copies ,if it appeals to that many people then thats great but u2 don't write albums to see how many they can sell, based on that everything has been a failure since 1987,which it hasn't they make records i hope to keep striving to make the very best record they can do ! i wished you would stop quoting album sales as your argument for saying an album is better than another !
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 04:30:41 AM
U2 will always win Grammys and sell millions of records b/c of there name! Which is totally fine b/c they have earned that! cause they are the worlds greatest band!!! So going off of Grammy's and sales is just stupid!
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 04, 2009, 05:40:14 AM
Again, all I posted are excerpts from three far-removed issues of Q magazine.

Those are the bands words, not mine.

Those are the words of the Q writer, not mine.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just trying to provide some education and clarity for the post-POP U2 fans who aren't too familiar with POP.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 05:51:32 AM
That message was for you. You are always sayin you go by record sales and awards. ...... POP was U2's worst material, which was way better than most bands
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 04, 2009, 06:01:15 AM
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Again, all I posted are excerpts from three far-removed issues of Q magazine.

Those are the bands words, not mine.

Those are the words of the Q writer, not mine.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just trying to provide some education and clarity for the post-POP U2 fans who aren't too familiar with POP.

Cheers,

J


I shoot you because a sentence taken out of its context may mean a trillion things.

Education is one thing, manipulation, another. Put the whole articles if you wanna educate someone. And if the newbies to u2 don't know about Pop, it's their problem. In 1986/87 most Cure fans attending gigs thought that their first ever record was "Standing on the beach - the singles". But it's not the band fault...

I insist. if Pop doens't work for you, cool. The following records doesn't work or me.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: spanner on February 04, 2009, 06:42:45 AM
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Again, all I posted are excerpts from three far-removed issues of Q magazine.

Those are the bands words, not mine.

Those are the words of the Q writer, not mine.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just trying to provide some education and clarity for the post-POP U2 fans who aren't too familiar with POP.

Cheers,

J

please! you posted this to get people's backs up nothing more !!!anybody getting into the band post 1997 like most other fans including myself in 85 will find the back catalogue on there own and make there own opinions of the bands albums to date, they don't need to read this  bollo*ks.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 06:46:31 AM
Spaner, i totally agree!! this dude is a TROLL
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: DGordon1 on February 04, 2009, 06:52:49 AM
Yeah, I mean what the hell is this "I'm trying to educate fans" bs. I found out Pop on my own and so can anyone if they decide to buy the album. I think everyone's getting sick of him, I certainly am.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 06:58:40 AM
He is a DB, says sh**e to get a responce. Dont want to say to much cause the monitor has gotten on me a few times about this guy.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 04, 2009, 07:42:02 AM
Theres a guy who's strange
In your U2 thread
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

theres a bon jovi picture
and it dont look good
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

i aint afraid of no troll


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 07:46:29 AM
hahah
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 04, 2009, 08:00:19 AM
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I am just trying to provide some education and clarity for the post-POP U2 fans who aren't too familiar with POP.



Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

The way to get familiar with Pop, or any album, is to LISTEN to it, not read about it !

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 04, 2009, 08:02:25 AM
.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 04, 2009, 08:11:30 AM
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Yea but Jick is not up to par when it comes to using the brain

But he feels he's up to helping educate the newbies

http://forum.atu2.com/index.php/topic,1173.0.html

"I feel I can contribute here - especially to the newbies."

And when he says "So I guess it was time I'd join the forum." what he means is "I just kicked off the Interference forums for being a troll"





Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 05, 2009, 04:50:10 AM
.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 05, 2009, 08:34:53 AM
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Yea but Jick is not up to par when it comes to using the brain

My post required little brain cell work.  I just copied and typed excerpts from those three Q magazine articles.

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Jick is some loser who has nothing better to do, but to get on fourms and post stupid stuff.

I am sorry if you find Mullen's quotes in Q magazine stupid.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: achtungespresso on February 05, 2009, 05:06:32 PM
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Theres a guy who's strange
In your U2 thread
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

theres a bon jovi picture
and it dont look good
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

i aint afraid of no troll




ROFL! This made me laugh so hard, you have no idea.

 ;D
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: InThisHeartland on February 05, 2009, 05:15:30 PM
Don't we all just LOVE threads like these?  ::)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: achtungespresso on February 06, 2009, 04:09:18 PM
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Don't we all just LOVE threads like these?  ::)

You know it   :D
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's rhythm section and willingness to experiment
Post by: BeneathTheNoise on February 07, 2009, 01:15:01 AM
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just goes to show how true the old adage about musicians being the worst people to judge their own music is.

Pop routinely beats out atyclb in fan polls.



Worldwide sales and awards garnered are better gauges to me than "fan polls."

Worldwide sales have nothing to do with how real U2 fans felt about either album. ATYCLB was great, but look at the facts. ATYCLB sold more because of "being in the right place at the right time": it was linked to the Tomb Raider movie, the Superbowl performance, etc etc.. it was thrust out there more. Therefore the general public became more familiar with it. It was like ANY "fad" out there. "Hey, that Superbowl performance by them guys was pretty cool, let's check out the album"... "OOH, there's that album with that song from Tomb Raider on it!"... If any of us could find out for certain that anything U2 was selling well because of the way it was promoted instead of just because it was U2, wouldn't we be somewhat disturbed?

Plus, I don't agree with the comment "U2 has done a good job of hiding/concealing POP for the newcomers, while for the old fans U2 have virtually disowned the album by remixing every vital track there.".. I don't really think they've tried to hide or conceal Pop, they just don't do stuff from it very much. They've got 32 years worth of material now, they can't fit everything into the itinerary. They didn't play anything earlier than Pride for many years on the tours, but it didn't mean they hated the earlier stuff. Plus, U2 had remixed several songs in the past, you can't reeeally say they picked on Pop in particular.. Pop certainly wasn't the first time they did remixes.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: TheFlyingLemon on February 07, 2009, 01:23:56 AM
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Theres a guy who's strange
In your U2 thread
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

theres a bon jovi picture
and it dont look good
who ya gonna call          trollbusters!

i aint afraid of no troll


 ;D  ;D  ;D

This deserves appreciation.

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Don't we all just LOVE threads like these?  ::)

Definitely, they're the brightest parts of the forum.

In all honesty, no matter how troll-like the poster is, I think we should keep the attacks to a minimum. Keep all the personal things out of this.

Oh crap, i'm sounding like a mod now.  :-[
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 08, 2009, 08:12:56 AM
I have just seen a the January 2008 issue of Q magazine.  Here is an excerpt from an interview with Edge.

------

Q: Broadly speaking, the last two albums were the sound of a classic U2.  Did you have some rebuilding or reorienting to do after POP?

Edge: I think after POP we sort of abstracted the sound of the band to such a degree that it felt timely to go back to the fundamentals of what rock'n'roll is all about and what it does.  It's really the chemistry of playing.  You only get that when people are in a room, in real time, performing together.  And that's really what we were experiencing on those two records. And on the new album I think it was time to move on - and, while holding on to that quality, to really take the sound to other areas. And some of the new ideas are slight throwbacks and some of them are really looking to the future.  That's OK: as long as when you use ideas from the past you make them of the moment. That you're not just slavishly doing something that you've done 10 or 20 years ago.

-------

Perhaps this interview can be read together with the other interview to get a fuller picture of POP for the newbies in this forum.

Cheers,

J


Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 11, 2009, 10:02:22 AM
More education for the new fans, especially the younger ones such as students who cannot shell out for the incredible book U2 by U2.

From U2 by U2, the band on POP in their own words:

BONO

"We just couldn't get the fun onto the album. The songs weren't good enough.  The themes were there.  Some of the melodies were there.  But it couldn't seem to get airborne."

"Pop is the sound of U2 trying to make an ode to club culture without using the tool sof dance music, which were loops and drum machines and pro-tools."

"Pop never had the chance to be properly finished. It is really the most expensive demo session in the history of music."

"This was really the theme of Pop: big subjects for the basement. But it is not enough to have a good lyric or a great idea.  If the tune or the musical location aren't right then you might as well be standing on a soap box at Speakers' Corner."

"So many songs on Pop were almost but not quite there."

"We wanted to make a party record but we came out at the end of the party.  The dancing was over and there were a load of broken bottles and young people sleeping under tables and the odd row in the garden between lovers who've imbibed too much."

"We should give this album to a re-mixer, go back to what was originally intended, so that 'Mofo' is on top of the stickiest groove with a proper plastic attack, 'Do You Feel Love" is done as a liquid bass line hook that carries the intimacies whispered on top of it, 'If God Will Send His Angels' should be diamonds and pearls."

On Last Night On Earth: "We were supposed to be making an uplifting expression of what happens when rock'n'roll meets club culture.  Instead, it felt like a load of men on an oil rig in the middle of the North Sea.  My voice was completely shot, which is why we put so much echo on it and Edge sand along with me to cover it up."

On Playboy Mansion: "It was supposed to be a Pop Art anthem but its contemporary references work against it.  Jokes about Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson just aren't funny any more. The original lyric was much more emotional. I am not sure the best version ended up on the album."

On If You Wear That Velvet Dress: "It wanted to be a lounge classic.  It ended up in an airport lounge as background noise."

On Please: "The recording is a little unfocused, a little unclear, and didn't resolve.  I'm not sure we've ever really done the song justice."

THE EDGE

"The great synthesis between songwriting and dance didn't happen.  It was like mixing oil and water.  The two approaches were actually pulling us in opposing directions."

"When the songs started to emerge from the mist, we missed the personality of the band.  The songs were resting on drum machine beats and sequenced bass and had a little bit of a sterile quality."

On Do You Feel Loved: "A great thought that never really became a great song."

On If God Will Send His Angels: "It is a nice tune but the chorus doesn't quite connect."

On Staring At The Sun: "Another great tune that never became a great record."

On Last Night On Earth: "It was a good tune but is it up there with 'New Year's Day' or 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? Obviously not, or we would still be playing it live."

On Gone: "I had high hopes for it but it always sounded better on acoustic guitar."

------------------------

That was still excerpts from Bono and Edge.  I will be adding more from Clayton, Mullen, and McGuiness when I gather everything up.

I will not post any comments or opinions here.  After all, these are the band's words so you readers be the one to decide.

Cheers,

J



Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 11, 2009, 10:06:33 AM
More education for newer U2 fans who may not know:

U2 fans like yourselves prefer Pop over HTDAAB and ATYCLB.

So, unless you're IN U2, your Peer group (the U2 fan who is interested enough in the band to log onto forums such as this) prefers Pop.



Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2009, 10:21:47 AM
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More education for the new fans, especially the younger ones such as students who cannot shell out for the incredible book U2 by U2.

From U2 by U2, the band on POP in their own words:

BONO

"We just couldn't get the fun onto the album. The songs weren't good enough.  The themes were there.  Some of the melodies were there.  But it couldn't seem to get airborne."

"Pop is the sound of U2 trying to make an ode to club culture without using the tool sof dance music, which were loops and drum machines and pro-tools."

"Pop never had the chance to be properly finished. It is really the most expensive demo session in the history of music."

"This was really the theme of Pop: big subjects for the basement. But it is not enough to have a good lyric or a great idea.  If the tune or the musical location aren't right then you might as well be standing on a soap box at Speakers' Corner."

"So many songs on Pop were almost but not quite there."

"We wanted to make a party record but we came out at the end of the party.  The dancing was over and there were a load of broken bottles and young people sleeping under tables and the odd row in the garden between lovers who've imbibed too much."

"We should give this album to a re-mixer, go back to what was originally intended, so that 'Mofo' is on top of the stickiest groove with a proper plastic attack, 'Do You Feel Love" is done as a liquid bass line hook that carries the intimacies whispered on top of it, 'If God Will Send His Angels' should be diamonds and pearls."

On Last Night On Earth: "We were supposed to be making an uplifting expression of what happens when rock'n'roll meets club culture.  Instead, it felt like a load of men on an oil rig in the middle of the North Sea.  My voice was completely shot, which is why we put so much echo on it and Edge sand along with me to cover it up."

On Playboy Mansion: "It was supposed to be a Pop Art anthem but its contemporary references work against it.  Jokes about Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson just aren't funny any more. The original lyric was much more emotional. I am not sure the best version ended up on the album."

On If You Wear That Velvet Dress: "It wanted to be a lounge classic.  It ended up in an airport lounge as background noise."

On Please: "The recording is a little unfocused, a little unclear, and didn't resolve.  I'm not sure we've ever really done the song justice."

THE EDGE

"The great synthesis between songwriting and dance didn't happen.  It was like mixing oil and water.  The two approaches were actually pulling us in opposing directions."

"When the songs started to emerge from the mist, we missed the personality of the band.  The songs were resting on drum machine beats and sequenced bass and had a little bit of a sterile quality."

On Do You Feel Loved: "A great thought that never really became a great song."

On If God Will Send His Angels: "It is a nice tune but the chorus doesn't quite connect."

On Staring At The Sun: "Another great tune that never became a great record."

On Last Night On Earth: "It was a good tune but is it up there with 'New Year's Day' or 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? Obviously not, or we would still be playing it live."

On Gone: "I had high hopes for it but it always sounded better on acoustic guitar."

------------------------

That was still excerpts from Bono and Edge.  I will be adding more from Clayton, Mullen, and McGuiness when I gather everything up.

I will not post any comments or opinions here.  After all, these are the band's words so you readers be the one to decide.

Cheers,

J





Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 11, 2009, 10:24:48 AM
There's a reason he was kicked off of Wire and Interference y'know..........

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2009, 10:29:07 AM
Man I'm losing it.  :-[

Junior, Im off to listen to WAR, LOUD
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Boom Cha! on February 11, 2009, 10:30:44 AM
Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 11, 2009, 10:32:29 AM
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2009, 10:39:30 AM
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Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Thanks Boom Cha!

You see, people do not need to be influenced, they can make up there own mind. All I am asking is please get out of this 'educating' mode you seem to be in. Even the toughest reviewers of music do not go this route.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 11, 2009, 10:42:08 AM
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Jick, I'm so glad you're able to educate us "new" fans. I've been a fan since 2005. It's so great to know all this information about Pop.

I mean, the first time I listenend to Pop I immediately fell in love with it. It was the reason I became such a huge U2 fan.

But, wait! The band doesn't like the album?! Oh no! I need to go back and rethink my opinion of this album.

Thank you so much, Jick! You are so insightful!

How dare I think for myself!

*sarcasm overload*  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Thanks Boom Cha!

You see, people do not need to be influenced, they can make up there own mind. All I am asking is please get out of this 'educating' mode you seem to be in. Even the toughest reviewers of music do not go this route.

It'snot like the book is that expensive either, it's about the price of a CD.

Pretty pictures and some nice insight occasionally from Willie, but the rest is pretty much bland and/or revisionist.

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: CiscoJP on February 11, 2009, 10:43:58 AM
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J


Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2009, 10:47:52 AM
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Jick, Im really begining to dislike you. I have asked you this before to which you did not answer. Why are trying to 'educate' young fans in the first place? Are they not entitled to form their own opinions on U2's music? Lets face it, very new fans to U2 have 11 brilliant albums to chose from as there staring point, whether its, Boy, HTDAAB or anything in between. Let them just listen to the songs, and then they can decide for themselves. Yes, reviews and grammy's and album sales are all important in their own silly little way, but what is most important is personal TASTE!
And Ive said to you before, why the hell does anybody have to take the bands opinion on anyhting. Not everybody likes Bono's campaigning, or 'preaching' whatever you want to call it, but they still love THE MUSIC and THE BAND, and BONO!
This is a forum, for lively discussion and debate between U2 fans from any age group, not a bleedin' classroom for people like you to try and force your opinions (which you are allowed to have) on people, especially new fans.
Your posts are aimed at winding people up (which you have finally done with me now) and causing conflict. Please stop it, can't you just write posts like everyone else, some are heated yes, but when they are they are in good humor. And another thing, do you have a sense of humor, because it hasn't come accross yet in any of your posts. Have FUN man, enjoy.
Phew!!!!!!!!!  8)
Oh, and I still LOVE Pop - whatever you say, or the Band says, in whatever book, or magazine or anything else says.

Please do not condemn me, those are not my words by the bands own words.

I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.

These young fans today love U2 but not all can afford the U2 by U2 book.  So I just thought of posting excerpts of the book.

Again, I have stated my opinions on POP in other threads.  This one is purely educational where I post what the band says.  In the end, its up to the younger fans to read what the band says, listen to the album, and decide for themselves.

Listening to the album won't be a problem in this world of free downloads, they can be resourceful enough.  Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.

Cheers,

J


Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?

Cisco thanks, I also wanted to try and say this, but went off on one. Thank you for being more constructive.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 11, 2009, 10:54:49 AM
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I am trying to "educate" the young U2 fans because there are a lot of teenagers and those in their early 20's, who were still maybe 10 years old when POP came out, so they were too young to even know what happened.


When did these "young U2 fans" enrol onto your class Jick?

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Deciding for themselves is also easy since the youth of today are very opinionated.  But do they all have access to the band's words?  This is where I am trying to help.  In the end, they will still decide.


You keep telling us you're the messager Jick. Fair enough. But what purpose does your message serve? Please tell me what the point of your message is? ANYONE (whether they're an aspiring young U2 fan or otherwise) will form an opinion of an album by simply listening to it. Any other factors are surely irrelevant to anyone that cares about music! Why should the opinions of U2 band members bear any relevance to the enjoyment of their music?

P.S. Please tell us a joke Jick...I know that you have it in you.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: joegtheog on February 11, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
POP rocks!!! (slight pun)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 11, 2009, 10:59:06 AM
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P.S. Please tell us a joke Jick...I know that you have it in you.


My joke was in another thread when I said the Rolling Stones covered U2's "Fortunate Son" but I'm not sure if the people following that thread got the joke.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 11, 2009, 11:04:42 AM
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Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?

While you ask "who cares what the band says"?  I really don't know who among those here care.  But I do care and that is the reason I read band interviews and bought U2 By U2.  I don't follow U2 just because of their music and don't form my opinions just on what's in the album and then decide.  I also am a big fan of Bono's charity work, and am a fan beyond the four corners of the music.

I am not sure if the stuff I posted here  - U2 By U2 and Q Magazine issues circa 97, 00 , and 02 - are accessible online.  Perhaps you can show me a link? 

That is why I did this service for the U2 newbies here - or at least to those who want to see what goes on in U2's mind.  To those who don't care about tangential aspects of the band, then disregard this topic.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: CiscoJP on February 11, 2009, 11:14:25 AM
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Who cares what the band says? They will usually be their own harshest critics. The point is, most true fans love Pop. Just accept it. ATYCLB and HTDAAB were decent albums, but not as deep, dark, or as innovative as Pop. It seems like it was just a bad experience for the band, rushed schedules, things they didn't get to do that they wanted to. I'm a musician myself, and I've found that sometimes songs that I've done that I hate are sometimes the ones everyone else loves, sometimes better than the ones I think are awesome. So you don't need to "educate" the new fans, and that's not what you're doing. If a fan listens to Pop and says "wow, this is good!" then so be it. Knowing that the band wasn't 100% happy with it won't change their opinion. And if they wanted to research it, I hear that teens and people in their early 20's are pretty good with the internet and looking things up. Like, if they wanted to know what Fez was...

You don't like Pop. We get it. Do we need tons and tons of threads and posts by you continually beating the dead horse?

While you ask "who cares what the band says"?  I really don't know who among those here care.  But I do care and that is the reason I read band interviews and bought U2 By U2.  I don't follow U2 just because of their music and don't form my opinions just on what's in the album and then decide.  I also am a big fan of Bono's charity work, and am a fan beyond the four corners of the music.

I am not sure if the stuff I posted here  - U2 By U2 and Q Magazine issues circa 97, 00 , and 02 - are accessible online.  Perhaps you can show me a link? 

That is why I did this service for the U2 newbies here - or at least to those who want to see what goes on in U2's mind.  To those who don't care about tangential aspects of the band, then disregard this topic.

Cheers,

J


You're misunderstanding. We all care about the band, and what they think, beyond the music. But who cares if the band didn't like Pop if you are one of those fans who likes the album? Ask any artist, and I'm sure there's a song or an album or a performance in their career that they are not happy with. Does that mean the fans should also stop enjoying it? You're here pushing your own agenda, and using the band's words to do so. It has nothing to do with "education." You need links? How about Wikipedia? The entry on Pop mentions how the band was dissatisfied with the abum, and how they re
mixed or re-recorded certain songs for the Best Of... album. Do we need enless quotes from you rehashing this, day in and day out?

You've apparently been banned from Wire and Interference. You're annoying most fans in these forums, and even the moderators, who are quite fair here, are growing tired of you. Maybe it's time to move on to something else?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Mr. BonorFLYd on February 11, 2009, 11:30:43 AM
I was listening to POP this morning. I think it is still very very good. I think it was a bit ahead of it's time! I think a lot of people weren't ready for those sounds & a lot of people weren't ready for U2 to make that sort of music, especially in the U.S. Much of what U2 were delving into were more European Dance Music forms. Trip-Hop, Techno, Jungle etc. I remember not many people listening to those genres, except the kids perhaps.

I think if POP were released now, it would get a much more positive reaction. It is a bit "Electro but Hand-played" as Daniel Lanois like to say now. And I think "Get On Your Boots" could almost fit on POP. Matter of fact at the Grammy's Edge's guitar sound was that of Discoteque until the distortion kicked in. *The band should not apologize for this album. It just didn't fully connect at the time it was released, that's all. Certainly it was a very ambitious sound!
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Zoonationalist on February 11, 2009, 11:32:40 AM
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I was listening to POP this morning. I think it is still very very good. I think it was a bit ahead of it's time! I think a lot of people weren't ready for those sounds & a lot of people weren't ready for U2 to make that sort of music, especially in the U.S. Much of what U2 were delving into were more European Dance Music forms. Trip-Hop, Techno, Jungle etc. I remember not many people listening to those genres, except the kids perhaps.

I think if POP were released now, it would get a much more positive reaction. It is a bit "Electro but Hand-played" as Daniel Lanois like to say now. And I think "Get On Your Boots" could almost fit on POP. Matter of fact at the Grammy's Edge's guitar sound was that of Discoteque until the distortion kicked in. *The band should not apologize for this album. It just didn't fully connect at the time it was released, that's all. Certainly it was a very ambitious sound!

Everything except for the lyrics. Bono was still writing gems on Pop!
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Mr. BonorFLYd on February 11, 2009, 12:49:09 PM
Maybe that's because with Bono...we actually understand and listen to the lyrics. There are hardly any other Singers I can think of that I pay enough attention to the lyrics right now. Sometimes that's because I can't understand their sloppy speech, or they muffle their words out of embarrassment, or the mix emphasizes the instrumentation and not the voice, or the singer is just plain BORING. or ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Both fans and H8ters listen and critique every word Bono says. I think sometimes he says some questionable things just to pri*k your ears up & make sure you're listening. But, I'd argue that he is the most 'listened to' singer in terms of how many people tune in to what he's going off about.  ;)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: joegtheog on February 11, 2009, 01:40:58 PM
I still think when all is said and done POP will be regarded as a true classic.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 11, 2009, 01:49:48 PM
I just got me POMART TOUR BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 11, 2009, 01:50:38 PM
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I just got me POMART TOUR BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

There's only about 3 zillion people went to popmart, how can those be in short supply ??

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 11, 2009, 01:53:33 PM
I dunnno but it was the first one in... Six years since I began going to look for things on Ebay that it was in an acceptable state and an acceptable price... like 40-45$...
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Terrasidius on February 11, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
jick, I am 25; when I bought Pop it was my first U2 album, it introduced me to the band. I adore it for all the reasons most people who like it state. My generation like dirty, underground, progressive, dub, techno, trip-hop and all that. When I heard Discotheque (the album version) for the first time I knew I had found my fave band. I rest my rather simple case. :D
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 11, 2009, 02:01:38 PM
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jick, I am 25; when I bought Pop it was my first U2 album, it introduced me to the band. I adore it for all the reasons most people who like it state. My generation like dirty, underground, progressive, dub, techno, trip-hop and all that. When I heard Discotheque (the album version) for the first time I knew I had found my fave band. I rest my rather simple case. :D

*APPLAUSE*
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Zoonationalist on February 11, 2009, 03:37:33 PM
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jick, I am 25; when I bought Pop it was my first U2 album, it introduced me to the band. I adore it for all the reasons most people who like it state. My generation like dirty, underground, progressive, dub, techno, trip-hop and all that. When I heard Discotheque (the album version) for the first time I knew I had found my fave band. I rest my rather simple case. :D

*APPLAUSE*

+1.
I'm 23...Pop was AWESOME. Maybe the staple of U2's "street cred."
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Terrasidius on February 11, 2009, 03:39:41 PM
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jick, I am 25; when I bought Pop it was my first U2 album, it introduced me to the band. I adore it for all the reasons most people who like it state. My generation like dirty, underground, progressive, dub, techno, trip-hop and all that. When I heard Discotheque (the album version) for the first time I knew I had found my fave band. I rest my rather simple case. :D

*APPLAUSE*

+1.
I'm 23...Pop was AWESOME. Maybe the staple of U2's "street cred."

I think that U2 definately earned their "cool points" in the 90s (including the awesome Passengers album and single!) and connected with an entirely new audience...regardless of how unhappy J is about it.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bono in Bonolands on February 11, 2009, 03:41:06 PM
NLOTH will be a lot like POP.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 12, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
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NLOTH will be a lot like POP.

U2 promised never to repeat the POP mistake again - which is to book a tour without finishing the album.

For NLOTH, U2 actually extended their studio time to finish the songs.

So NLOTH will not be like POP at all.  Actually, POP is the only one of its kind unless you consider the Hansa Tapes.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 12, 2009, 03:09:58 AM
I think it's time you stopped hiding in the 'POP' closet Jick...you're so far in you've probably had the odd adventure or two in Narnia.

Anyone up for Educating Jick on the greatness of Pop?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 12, 2009, 03:40:48 AM
I think you need to be eduacted............ POP was a joke
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 12, 2009, 03:43:39 AM
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I think you need to be eduacted............ POP was a joke

Are you hiding in the closet with Jick there? C'mon guys...it's alright - you can come out now  :P
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 12, 2009, 06:38:46 AM
Ok class, we shall resume session.

Here are Mullen and Clayton's words about POP from the book U2 By U2.

--------------------------

EDGE

"It took us about halfway through the tour to figure out how we were going to work the show.  But as it came together it was truly amazing.  We rearranged a lot of the songs.  We dropped 'Do You Feel Loved' quite early on. 'Discotheque' got heavily restructured. 'Staring At The Sun' was stripped right down to just an acoustic duet. 'Gone' had a new guitar part. 'Velvet Dress' was higher and more direct. 'Mofo' became almost a heavy rock song. 'Miami' got much darker."


ADAM CLAYTON

"We spent a  lot of that tour playing catch-up.  We rehearsed whenever we could.  We went into studios to remix and re-record songs for singles.  We worked very hard to turn that around."


PAUL MCGUINNES

"The rest of that campaign was spent trying to drag that elusive hit out of the album that would revive its fortunes.  We all loved 'Please' but that summer Edge, Howie and Bono spent weeks in a recording truck in a hotel car park in France between gigs tring to get a mix that would turn it into a hit single.  They never did."

On Staring At The Sun: "We thought we had an ace to play whenever we needed it, which was 'Staring At The Sun.' We thought it was a solid gold number one hit. It clearly wasn't the song we thought it was."


LARRY MULLEN JR.

On Please: "It it a great song but I don't feel it was finished. Like the rest of that album. A few extra weeks would have made all the difference to those songs."

"I had to replay sampled loops that Howie had used without permission.  I was scrambling to try and get fit and scrambling to get my parts completed for the songs."

"If we had two or three more months to work, we would have had a very different record.  I would like someday to rework those songs and give them the attention and time that they deserve.  It is sort of a U2ism, being unable to let go, and I am unable to let go of that record."

"We were crossing into unknown territory and it felt like skating on thin ice but I think the instinct was right.  I just don't think the execution was all it could have been."

"Had the album been finished, we could have got away with doing K-Mart, having a bad opening show, having a lemon on stage, all those things.  The difficulty was that the record wasn't able to support all these new, bright ideas."

"The Best Of albums give you an opportunity to look back at your work and appreciate it.  Well, most of it.  We had a chance to remix some of the Pop tracks which helped a bit but didn't quite lay the ghost of Pop to rest.  I still have this probably mad idea that we might finish those songs one day."

----------------

Cheers,

J



Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 06:41:54 AM
and I was having such a great day
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 12, 2009, 06:43:06 AM
Again Jick thank you for proving my point that POP was a disappointing album!
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 06:59:55 AM
aaaaw you should go on a road trip together, how sweet, so you actually think that he proved something?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 12, 2009, 07:04:53 AM
Jick and I have disagreed so many times on other topic's but on this one he is completely right !
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: singnomore on February 12, 2009, 07:05:47 AM
I do agree Pop doesnt ring my bell the way other albums do...
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 12, 2009, 07:28:50 AM
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Ok class, we shall resume session.

Here are Mullen and Clayton's words about POP from the book U2 By U2.



How long....to sing this song......how long.......to sing this song?

If we're talking about education here Jick...lets take it back to pre-school because this is very basic:

U2 band members’ opinions affect our opinions of them BUT not our enjoyment of their music. It…is…very….simple.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 12, 2009, 07:30:49 AM
Do not feed the trolls. "U2#1" started out despising Jick's trolling, now he's apparently obsessed about surpassing it.

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 12, 2009, 07:37:51 AM
I have been very verbal about how i cant stand Jick but i agree with him about POP/ and that's all. ATYCLB is not even close to a third masterpiece like he thinks
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 12, 2009, 07:43:32 AM
Again, if people want to agree about my views on POP, do it in the appropriate threads where I state my views.

In this thread/topic I am just posting the band's own words.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 12, 2009, 07:46:11 AM
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I have been very verbal about how i cant stand Jick but i agree with him about POP/ and that's all. ATYCLB is not even close to a third masterpiece like he thinks

Ah...sorry if I spoiled a rare moment of agreement between the 2 of you.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: U2#1-War on February 12, 2009, 07:48:59 AM
apology not needed.......
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 12, 2009, 09:57:12 AM
Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Lesmo on February 12, 2009, 10:01:16 AM
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Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J


yes I have that one. so? Bearing in mind they Got Brandon Flowers on the cover of the current issue, looking lika a sissy version of Morrissey (and remember, Mozza is everything but a macho), then their criteria is, at least, questionable...
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 12, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
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Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J


yes I have that one. so? Bearing in mind they Got Brandon Flowers on the cover of the current issue, looking lika a sissy version of Morrissey (and remember, Mozza is everything but a macho), then their criteria is, at least, questionable...

Think how low of a self-esteem you need to have that you need to get validation of what are supposed to be your own opinions, and lower yet when that validation has to come from people you've never met, book editors and music critics and nameless writers on periodicals.



Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 10:10:56 AM
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Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J


well since reading that Miami all of a sudden sounds rubbish, keep it up J I think its working  ;)
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: jick on February 12, 2009, 10:11:38 AM
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Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J


yes I have that one. so? Bearing in mind they Got Brandon Flowers on the cover of the current issue, looking lika a sissy version of Morrissey (and remember, Mozza is everything but a macho), then their criteria is, at least, questionable...

Think how low of a self-esteem you need to have that you need to get validation of what are supposed to be your own opinions, and lower yet when that validation has to come from people you've never met, book editors and music critics and nameless writers on periodicals.





Again, this is not validation for me, but information and education for the newbies to help strengthen or form their opinions.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 10:16:02 AM
cant they just listen, I did and apart from twitching now & then im fine, forming your own opinions isn't seal clubbing J
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: dislexoteche on February 12, 2009, 10:24:01 AM
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Just a tidbit I got from Wikipedia (since I don't have that particular issue of Q magazine):

"In 2005, Q magazine included the song "Miami" in a list of "Ten Terrible Records by Great Artists"."

Cheers,

J


yes I have that one. so? Bearing in mind they Got Brandon Flowers on the cover of the current issue, looking lika a sissy version of Morrissey (and remember, Mozza is everything but a macho), then their criteria is, at least, questionable...

Think how low of a self-esteem you need to have that you need to get validation of what are supposed to be your own opinions, and lower yet when that validation has to come from people you've never met, book editors and music critics and nameless writers on periodicals.





Again, this is not validation for me, but information and education for the newbies to help strengthen or form their opinions.

Cheers,

J


Jick...what is it about the opinions of others being irrelevant to the enjoyment of music, that you don't get?
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: JuniorEmblem on February 12, 2009, 10:43:04 AM
Hands up any "newbie" who feels educated by anything Jick has posted ?

Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 10:46:24 AM
I represent the tumbleweed rolling along the bottom of your screens while we wait for a reply
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Zoonationalist on February 12, 2009, 10:48:50 AM
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I represent the tumbleweed rolling along the bottom of your screens while we wait for a reply

I represent the sound of crickets.
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Bads316 on February 12, 2009, 10:51:44 AM
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I represent the tumbleweed rolling along the bottom of your screens while we wait for a reply

I represent the sound of crickets.

if you listen real close the crickets are humming Mofo
Title: Re: POP: The High Watermark Of U2's Frustration and Their Most Turbulent Period
Post by: Zoonationalist on February 12, 2009, 10:55:22 AM
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I represent the tumbleweed rolling along the bottom of your screens while we wait for a reply

I represent the sound of crickets.

if you listen real close the crickets are humming Mofo

HAHAHA! I just lost it. :D