@U2 Forum

U2 => General U2 Discussion => Topic started by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 12:29:39 PM

Title: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 12:29:39 PM
From what i've seen - not just on this forum, but over at interference and the official website's forum - there is a general feeling of discontent with u2.com.

The most recent grievance is the announcement of the 'u2:Duals' track list. It's not just the latest in a long line of unimpressive incentives to get people to subscribe, but u2.com has pushed the bar this time by including u2's singles, tracks straight from u2 albums, and many more songs readily available from stores such as itunes (of course, at a much lower price). This was supposedly a CD with "exclusive content, available nowhere else" - that was announced months ago to get people to resubscribe. It was a misleading claim to cheat people out of their money. This CD is being given to u2 fans so enthusiastic that they're shelling out $50 to be members - if anyone is going to already have these tracks (that are readily available to the public), it's them.

And this is just the latest of grievances - recently, many fans were upset to hear that the final show of the North American leg was no longer going to be the last performance. Many people made travel arrangements, plans to go to the Pittsburgh show specifically because u2.com said it was the last show, making it a very special occasion for many... only for u2.com to later announce a show in Moncton. It was dishonest, and cheated the fans.

Then, there are the complaints that u2.com simply isn't worth its steep price - the added benefits seem little to many, u2's personal involvement is virtually non-existent, and i've heard a few people complain about the fact that, since there are no discounts for concert tickets, u2.com subscribers are actually ending up paying more than casual fans for tickets.

I'm not even a u2.com subscriber, but i feel bad for those who have handed over so much cash for so little. The poor quality of u2.com is hardly a catastrophe, but it is nonetheless an insult to fans. I think they're being cheated, they don't deserve it, and it's unacceptable. The poor treatment of fans is also a bad reflection on u2 themselves, who are seeming increasingly out of touch.

However, i must stress that this is not an attack on u2 themselves - sure, we'd all prefer the band to be more involved, but the fact that they aren't demonstrates how the problems and scandals of u2.com are down to the runners of the site, not u2.

So, given that u2 fans as a whole seem not just unsatisfied with, but ripped off and lied to by u2.com, i and many others feel that something should be done about it. Over in the 'Duals' thread in the news and rumours section, we decided that the most effective thing to do would be a mass un-subscription to u2.com.
This would entail organising it with other forums like interference, and sending a message directly to u2.com, to make sure everyone is aware of it.

Therefore, if you support the idea of showing u2.com that we're not going to let them treat the fans like this, please do post in this thread.
The plan i laid out above was just one idea for organising something against the website, and other plans/ideas are appreciated.
The question of whether to make this public is also open - whilst it would seem unfair to put u2 themselves in a negative spotlight, is it perhaps what is needed to show them how unhappy their fans are?
If you support the idea of a mass un-subscription, what should be said to other fan sites and u2.com to make it happen? It is something that must be thought through, otherwise it will flop. Drafts of messages to be given to all these sites are appreciated.

So, to summarise, if you support a plan to demonstrate our discontent with u2.com, please leave ideas on what we should do, or if you agree with the boycott idea, suggest drafts of posts to be made on other forums to rally support, as well as messages to be sent to u2.com itself.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: The Exile on February 09, 2011, 01:32:47 PM
I think what Mars Girl said in another thread is spot on: This is the kind of activism that U2 would have supported in their younger days when they weren't afriad to speak truth to power. Though I am not a member of U2.com, I strongly support this idea.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 01:47:25 PM
Yeah, that's true enough. Hell, they might even support it now, if they actually paid attention to what u2.com was like  ::)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JasontheJedi on February 09, 2011, 01:48:07 PM
I think it's a great idea and I'll gladly participate...however, how many members of u2.com are there? I have a feeling that we might end up being just a blip on the radar.

As far as U2 getting bad publicity, I don't really care. I know they don't run u2.com themselves, but they're the ones that make pacts with the devil (Live Nation) and let a bunch of monkeys run their website.

I'll try to think of some ideas and get back to this post.

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: TheEdgeIn4D~Too much is NOT enough! {T-PEP} on February 09, 2011, 02:14:14 PM
I will help too somehow......I don't want the band to get bad rep because I don't feel they deserve to be humiliated or anything, I just want them to be made honest within the community.

I'm a bit swamped now, but I could try drafting up some letters or something.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 02:26:09 PM
JasontheJedi, TheEdgeIn4D, thanks so much.
 
I too think it's possible that we'll only be a blip on the radar - although, every single post on the 'Duals' thread in the u2.com forum was very angry about the cd. Many said they were considering un-subscribing. I think its possible we could actually convince a large number to leave u2.com.
However, i wouldn't be surprised if the mods over there lock topics discussing the boycotting of their website, and ban me within minutes of attempting to organise something.

If it really is that difficult, then maybe it would be worth getting into the headlines via all the fan forums advertising the boycott on their main pages. If that happens, then it would surely be visible when journalists are searching for u2 news online.
Sure, it would hurt u2's public image, and it's not exactly their fault that u2.com is so bad (i'm sure it's more down to live nation trying to squeeze as much profit as possible out of fans). But at the same time, this is the official website for the band, and they are, ultimately, in charge of it - they have the power to change u2.com. Maybe a highly publicised change of the website would actually be better publicity for the band, than a website that is highly exploitative. Forcing u2 into the spotlight with this could make them have to change how they run things through their website, and might possibly convince the band to stop their brand being such a faceless corporation, and actually connect with their fans on a more personal level.

...and, if we do publicly broadcast a protest, we could always establish that it's a protest against u2.com, not u2. That could save u2 from bad press, and the distinction between the two (u2 the band and u2.com the brand) could serve to highlight how little the band actually participates in reaching out to fans.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: TheEdgeIn4D~Too much is NOT enough! {T-PEP} on February 09, 2011, 02:41:14 PM
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the distinction between the two (u2 the band and u2.com the brand) could serve to highlight how little the band actually participates in reaching out to fans.

Excellent point! As long as the distinction was emphasized well enough, I would be up for that! And even if u2.com closed the threads, we're sneaky and subversive...we could post enough that everyone would know to come over to @tu2.com  ;D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 02:53:18 PM
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the distinction between the two (u2 the band and u2.com the brand) could serve to highlight how little the band actually participates in reaching out to fans.

Excellent point! As long as the distinction was emphasized well enough, I would be up for that! And even if u2.com closed the threads, we're sneaky and subversive...we could post enough that everyone would know to come over to @tu2.com  ;D

I'm glad you agree!  :) I certainly think it's vital to emphasise our discontent with the website, NOT with u2 themselves, although obviously they come into it. An army of sneaky undercover posters is also a great idea - perhaps instead of starting threads on or posting about the boycott, we could just post a link to this thread, attached to a comment like "if you're unsatisfied with u2.com, check this out".
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 09, 2011, 02:54:50 PM
Like in the signature?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 09, 2011, 03:10:47 PM
Other ideas voiced on the other DUALS post:

1) re-branding DUALS as MACPHISTO in all our communications about the record
2) making signs/shirts for the upcoming U2 shows calling out how bad U2.com is
3) tossing copies of DUALS on stage during the concerts
4) putting together a site to gather signatures to petition U2
5) contacting press outlets like Rolling Stone
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: horizon on February 09, 2011, 05:00:00 PM
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Other ideas voiced on the other DUALS post:

1) re-branding DUALS as MACPHISTO in all our communications about the record
2) making signs/shirts for the upcoming U2 shows calling out how bad U2.com is
3) tossing copies of DUALS on stage during the concerts
4) putting together a site to gather signatures to petition U2
5) contacting press outlets like Rolling Stone
I like Macphisto though, but i get what you're saying.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 09, 2011, 05:11:07 PM
i think jamie you should craft the official response to be attached to the petition or whatever get sent in. i would suggest getting exile and maybe a couple of others to proof read and agree on the content. that'll take a lot of the pressure off you mate. i wouldnt just put it out there for everyone tho, you'll never get agreement, just nominate a few people (or let others do that) and from that small group get something going.

just let us all know when to put our names on the list of what you come up with.

and yes i dont think its too much to ask to have the actual band members featured in some bonus content. a bit off track but when was the last time you actually saw a band member speak in any of the bonus doco's on the concert dvd's
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Miami66 on February 09, 2011, 05:31:11 PM
Sign me up, I'm not a member, but the "fanclub exclusives" have been jokes and I'm sure U2 wouldn't approve of it. Sign me up Jamie.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Miami66 on February 09, 2011, 05:32:11 PM
I'm gonna put [Boycott Duals] in my name. Who's with me ?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 09, 2011, 05:41:04 PM
I totally agree. But the way i see it U2.com and U2 are, in some sense, one in the same.

These days, your web presence is your primary point of contact with fans. If the website is alienating fans, then you MUST do something about it. Your management must do something about it.

Otherwise a fair accusation is that you are doing nothing and don't care about the rip off taking place.

Duals is a joke. I have made the playlist on my ipod already.

The Australian pre-sales were a joke.  Terrible communication and conflicting reports.

And whilst they don't sit there and type stuff, U2 the band are responsible for their web presence. They are responsible for addressing problems.

And they could start with the godawful design.

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: happyme on February 09, 2011, 06:18:40 PM
Im a member over there & also think that the price is steep,but will remain a member as when they decided  to come to oz it  can be hard to get tix to the first show so at least we have pre sale.That said i have orded mercich through there  american store site (witch was just  akey ring) back  in december & still havent recived it,i sent off an e-mail saying so, & recived one saying that it may take a month & thay have no way of tracking it.my biggest problem is that i fell that it has been sent to the wrong address as the wrong one  comes up when i check my account (& i am unable to change it) I dont blame u2 at all i blame the powers that be (yea i know thay employ them) but i feel that they have more to do  then the site,but it would be nice to think that they at least cared.But i dont think that it should be expossed to the public as it will be blown up to more than what it is & just embarse them,& make larry angry
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 06:20:36 PM
Thanks for the support guys!   :)

Miami66 - the 'boycott duals' idea is great, i've already followed suit  ;) I recommend everyone do it!

soapit - you might be right, a massive group discussion might not yield any final conclusions. If people want to make a small, efficient group to get things done, please nominate yourself in this thread, i wouldn't feel comfortable choosing members myself. I also don't want to think of myself as the 'boss' of this operation, i'm sure other members would be a lot better at this than me, but of course i'm willing to do everything i can - not shirking responsibility, i just don't think the direction of this boycott should be in the control of one person, i think it should be slightly democratic, if just for the sake of the quality of this protest.

briscoetheque - i was feeling kind of bad about including u2 themselves in this, but it is their website, so in an indirect way, they're responsible for this shoddy treatment of their fans. They ought to know about it. Perhaps the public does too!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 09, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
or maybe nominate others otherwise people will be to modest i reckon. i've already chucked yourself (jamie) and exile up there for nom as people who are respected, motivated and able to express things clearly.

so how exactly did you boycott the cd?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: The Exile on February 09, 2011, 06:47:57 PM
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Thanks for the support guys!   :)

Miami66 - the 'boycott duals' idea is great, i've already followed suit  ;) I recommend everyone do it!

soapit - you might be right, a massive group discussion might not yield any final conclusions. If people want to make a small, efficient group to get things done, please nominate yourself in this thread, i wouldn't feel comfortable choosing members myself. I also don't want to think of myself as the 'boss' of this operation, i'm sure other members would be a lot better at this than me, but of course i'm willing to do everything i can - not shirking responsibility, i just don't think the direction of this boycott should be in the control of one person, i think it should be slightly democratic, if just for the sake of the quality of this protest.

briscoetheque - i was feeling kind of bad about including u2 themselves in this, but it is their website, so in an indirect way, they're responsible for this shoddy treatment of their fans. They ought to know about it. Perhaps the public does too!

I'm happy to help however I can.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 07:21:34 PM
Cheers Exile!
Right, so Exile and myself so far, how about you, soapit? You in?
Miami66, TheEdgeIn4D, JasontheJedi, would you be up for it?
Everyone else is still welcome to nominate themselves!
When we decide on the members, we can move on to proposing and choosing drafts of what to say...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 09, 2011, 07:22:49 PM
I'm not sure what I can do.... But I'm posting on this thread to see what's going on.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 09, 2011, 07:25:53 PM
Everything is still very much in the planning stage.
I made this thread first and foremost to just gather in everyone that feels the same way. Once we've formed a collective willing to organise a protest, we can discuss what we think is best...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: funkndub on February 09, 2011, 07:55:10 PM
This topic motivated me to register on this site. Although,  have been a dedicated reader for a few years. 

I have been a member of all the various versions of U2's fanclub since 1983 and u2.com is an absolute sham. I have had a real bad taste in my mouth for it since the Vertigo tour ticket fiasco and they have done nothing to prove that they give a sh** about the fans.  I could go for days regarding how much of a disaster and disservice the fanclub is to u2 and what they used to stand for.

I would like to participate if only to warn others not to waste their money and instead read more informative and fan friendly sites such as atu2.com.

Lu

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 09, 2011, 08:00:16 PM
I dont think I will be signing up next year. This year, I only used one presale code. Of the three concerts I'm going to, one was from when they were postponed (before I was a member) and the other was a date I decided to add way after they presale was over so I never used my code. So I guess I was kind of thinking that the CD would at least be a nice benefit.... even though I didnt get my money's worth out of the membership. So now I'm disappointed royally. Since I buy GA tickets, and these are generally still available when the show goes to public sales, I think I'm just going to take my chances with having the benefit of the presale since everyone seems to indicate it's not really needed.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: EdgeFest [Zenmaster360] on February 09, 2011, 08:06:01 PM
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3) tossing copies of DUALS on stage during the concerts


Absolutely no way.

The rest, rock on.  I agree.  I appreciate my presale code, but I've long believed that we should have access to downloads of soundboard bootlegs for shows that we've attended (for free or even a minimal price of a few dollars) as part of our subscription benefits.  Easy enough for them to do and a really big perk.  Sure, a lot of us know how to get torrents of bootlegs, but why can't they just make it official as a lot of other bands have done?  I'd treasure that, and I would love to have it conveniently available than having to pray for a decent bootleg after every show and hope that it sounds good........

As well - the mistakes and incompetence of late has been laughable.  I still haven't forgotten about my lithograph from Chicago that wasn't from Chicago, and you know, I still have it.  I never heard back from anyone regarding that, and I try not to think about it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Miami66 on February 09, 2011, 08:10:18 PM
I ordered a IGCIIDGCT Remix shirt before xmas and I got through the whole thing and then they told me it was backordered and would be here by Jan 12, guess what on Jan 20 they said it was sold out (and they used my discount 30% off coupon)  >:( >:(
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 09, 2011, 08:53:48 PM
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I appreciate my presale code, but I've long believed that we should have access to downloads of soundboard bootlegs for shows that we've attended (for free or even a minimal price of a few dollars) as part of our subscription benefits.  Easy enough for them to do and a really big perk.  Sure, a lot of us know how to get torrents of bootlegs, but why can't they just make it official as a lot of other bands have done?  I'd treasure that, and I would love to have it conveniently available than having to pray for a decent bootleg after every show and hope that it sounds good........


what annoys me about that is i remember years ago before anyone had thought of doing it that bono was talking about how exciting the possibilities were with all the new tech and said something about this. it was something about being able to download a copy of the show you'd just been to. then with all their cash and resources they never got around to making it happen whereas other bands have done it.

they used to be on the cutting edge.

jamie i'm also happy to help out. i dont really have a strong opinion about what to do (tho i too am not keen to start throwing things at the band). plus i'm only a new member so not as annoyed as most people but i'll keep piping in with occasional suggestions until someone tells me to stop.

i do think the simplest way is getting a petition with people signing to say they've either cancelled, thought about cancelling or never signed up in the first place because of the poor experience delivered, nice and inclusive and doesnt.

i'd also be in favour of keeping this between us and the band, no need to drag others into it ie rollingstone.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JasontheJedi on February 09, 2011, 08:54:59 PM
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Cheers Exile!
Right, so Exile and myself so far, how about you, soapit? You in?
Miami66, TheEdgeIn4D, JasontheJedi, would you be up for it?
Everyone else is still welcome to nominate themselves!
When we decide on the members, we can move on to proposing and choosing drafts of what to say...

I'm in.

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And they could start with the godawful design.

Yes, please. Especially for a website that isn't required to place ads anywhere.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 09, 2011, 09:14:59 PM
Oh, and yes. I support.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Georgia on February 09, 2011, 09:27:36 PM
Does anyone know how to actually cancel your U2.com membership?  I know that no one ever responds to the email form on the help page.  I tried to get help earlier this year because I never get any of the fan club emails (which is why I missed out on the 'exclusive' download earlier, but no worries, apparently it's going to be on Duals  ???).  Yeah, no answer. 

I read through the site's terms and conditions (http://www.u2.com/terms/) and that's no help either, but it was good for a laugh....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: jenniferh aka jen on February 09, 2011, 10:28:12 PM
^Adam's brother owns the company that technically takes care of the website but LiveNation is supposedly the one in charge of the forum and store.

What I have been reading on this forum and other forums is that the complaints are really coming from the LiveNation era which started in 2008. Does anyone feel like there has been a disconnect going on prior to 2008 on U2.com? I mean the end of the Propaganda era was hard on a lot of fans because it really was cool and I think they tried to transfer that to a website but have totally lost touch over the years with what Propaganda meant to the fans.

I would really like to read the contract that U2 has with LiveNation, just concerning U2.com and see what LiveNation promised them they would do and how much the band would be involved. It makes me wonder if the band was really heavily involved in the beginning but has backed away from it because they are relying on others to take care of everything.

I have a project management type of thinking when it comes to work and would love to get my hands on this project and analyze it!!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 09, 2011, 10:53:18 PM
The reason I say that the Band and the website are intertwined is because U2.com IS U2 on the web. Sure, they've handed 'control' if you like, but if a band the stature of U2 says 'our website is crap, fix it' it will happen.

There is too much at stake to have a terrible website.

So, it's reasonable to assume one of a few things...

1) U2 don't care. They don't understand this whole hintraweb/new media thing are are just happy to have something (remember u2popmart.msn.com anyone?)
2) U2 think the site is actually good. That is more disturbing.
3) U2.com is a commercial beast alone. So long as the website pulls in $50 a membership the band and management are happy.

In each of these situations, U2 - the band - can do something about it.

By letting a sub par, poorly organised website represent them, and by handing their loyal card carrying cash giving members a CD of stuff they already have as a major benefit, they are themselves guilty of the con as much as livenation.

We are too quick to excuse the band in my opinion. I love them, hell I've just shelled out thousands to see them in the US and Australia in the past 2 years. But they are responsible for their website. They can fix it.

It's your world, you can change it, I believe the saying went...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 09, 2011, 11:40:20 PM
I don't excuse U2 when it comes to the music.  They managed to find a way to sell us the same music through the Best of 1980 - 1990, Best of 1990 - 2000, U218 and The Complete U2 digital box set ($150!).   Then the fan club releases: CD rips of two concerts already out on VHS/DVD, 2 remix discs that had mostly released tracks on them and 2 collections we mostly already own.  This is U2.   

It reminds me of cheesy overpriced diner in Times Square.  The service is horrible, the food's bad and over priced and they rush you out.  Because they know that another sucker from Kentucky is waiting for seat.  U2 has never suffered for giving out stuff we already had.   They have no reason to change.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: u2vox on February 10, 2011, 01:30:02 AM
Idea: When Duals arrives, send it back. Better yet, send it back to Principle Management, as opposed to U2.com, along with a note saying why it's being sent back. Perhaps everyone uses the same or a similar note, and the point gets across...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 02:00:09 AM
I paid for U2.com in December the first time. I liked the past releases seen thru the web (I don't know what's wrong with MR&R....I like it) and yes, I also did rely on the Duals promise to be something exclusive. Well, 3 songs we didn't have so far, of which one was already sent out as download. If they don't play Europe again this year so I can use my presale code (it's btw a shame, that the code is good for EU concerts for 4 tickets for one show, not like US dates where you can use them for 2x2 tickets), I'm really getting angry, that was the second main reason I subscribed. The discount code is nice, as GA runners don't have time to buy stuff at the show itself, but the shipping costs are a betrayel and the European Store is as well.

Yes, the band could fix it.

I ran websites for some of my fave musicians some years back. As being a fan, I tried to bring something special to the fans. This ended up in kneeling to get them posting some answers in the forums or send a pack of signed photos....but if another fan told them: hey, they're crappy over there, I immediately received an email...and they really are NOT as big as a band like U2. But it's also always been "no time, lotta work, sorry I'm in the studio...at rehearsals..." or "yes I will do this later" - and forgot it.

I understand, that U2 are a big band, really busy, we want a lot from them (do an album, do a great rerelease of R&H and AB....) but I think, the fact U2.com sucks is - they just don't know about it. If they ask, all will tell them: oh yeah, everything is fine. They need at least one fan in the website team, cause fans know, what fans want.

If Bono knew, he would try to fix it. The really best would be to try to meet the band and hand Bono out a print of this topic, a letter with explanations or something the like. I'm sure he get angry. I don't think the band sees their fans as money spenders.  If we explain, what needs to be changed, they would do something about it. It's not only the betrayel with the CD, but also the sucking stores from Live Nation and the lack of support. Being the biggest band in the world means you have to built up a BIG team for support and fanclub. Running a big company like this is surely different than being a little band with a few hundred fans and just 50 of them in the fanclub, that's okay. I don't expect U2 spending their spare time on the forums or stuff. But what's that stupid video thing? Edge wearing a flipcam and all you see is 30-40secs of footage with ....well, nothing. Or you see 20secs of a song from a concert and you have to guess what song it was (well, not really, but you know what I mean) - and for this crappy "exclusive video" they put signs out "attention: this concert is filmed....." ::)

Writing  to the management or even sending back the Duals CD won't change much I think. Well, why shell I send back the CD or throw it on stage (I don't throw things on stage) - I PAID for it, so I won't trash it. Although it's not good, it was expensive and I don't trash money like this.

Well I paid this year and will make the best of it. But if they don't change, I won't do it again. At least, if they don't change, they really need to lower the price. $50 is a heck of money for some of us.

Again, I think the best would be to try to address this directly to the band. If someone meets them, they need to tell them. I'm sure they will listen.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Aqua on February 10, 2011, 02:22:43 AM
oh count me in. it's shocking :D.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Kit on February 10, 2011, 03:46:31 AM
Spiderman is not U2, but that didn't stop the press from linking the two together to get a headline, no matter how much we attempt to keep this as an attack on U2.com and not U2 themselves, it will be spun poorly........without doubt.

The only way to really solve this is to get word directly to the members of U2, if anyone has an 'in', or through concerts (I think somebody mentioned signs that could be held up at gigs etc)..........otherwise, their PR people and agents will intercept all our efforts and keep the band as far away from this as possible, as they know that it doesn't make financial or emotional sense to involve the band members directly in these matters.

However.........

I feel that our best option is send U2.com suggestions for exclusive content, send them ideas (some of you may have done this).

I have found in my experience that suggesting ways to solve things is far more effective than just simply complaining.

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 05:13:07 AM
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The only way to really solve this is to get word directly to the members of U2, if anyone has an 'in', or through concerts (I think somebody mentioned signs that could be held up at gigs etc)..........



Good point. But this would go out to those who will finally see the band in the US this year and have waited for it so long. I can imagine it may bother some of them to take care of something thru the show, paint a sign or banner and make sure, they see it instead of just enjoying the show they have waited for so long. But yes, they will play a lot of gigs in the US, maybe we'll find some fans here who will bring a sign to the show so the band sees something goes wrong.

I don't think suggestions to U2.com will change anything. Because I'm sure a lot of fans already suggested ideas in mails etc. since many of the subscribers are unhappy for some years now. And if the final result of those suggestions is Duals? You see how interested U2.com is in suggestions.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 05:14:45 AM
Oh and maybe we should at least make clear in those signs, we don't see the band being responsible for this like "U2 rules! U2.com sucks!!" or the like.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: mattyk on February 10, 2011, 05:59:36 AM
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Idea: When Duals arrives, send it back. Better yet, send it back to Principle Management, as opposed to U2.com, along with a note saying why it's being sent back. Perhaps everyone uses the same or a similar note, and the point gets across...

I think this is a great idea! Not a member - been to four of the last five Sydney concerts without a presale code and never saw any other value in it. Fully support y'all in this though and it's confirmed very strongly that I made the right decision in not joining.

There's absolutely no excuse for one of the biggest, wealthiest bands in the world to have a shithouse online presence, especially when they're always banging on about technology. Poor form.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Kit on February 10, 2011, 06:22:02 AM
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The only way to really solve this is to get word directly to the members of U2, if anyone has an 'in', or through concerts (I think somebody mentioned signs that could be held up at gigs etc)..........



Good point. But this would go out to those who will finally see the band in the US this year and have waited for it so long. I can imagine it may bother some of them to take care of something thru the show, paint a sign or banner and make sure, they see it instead of just enjoying the show they have waited for so long. But yes, they will play a lot of gigs in the US, maybe we'll find some fans here who will bring a sign to the show so the band sees something goes wrong.

I don't think suggestions to U2.com will change anything. Because I'm sure a lot of fans already suggested ideas in mails etc. since many of the subscribers are unhappy for some years now. And if the final result of those suggestions is Duals? You see how interested U2.com is in suggestions.
[/color]

Good point.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: bwm231163 on February 10, 2011, 07:00:24 AM
I am a little confused by this whole thing. If you don't like U2.com, don't subscribe to U2.com. Suddenly your problem is solved.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 07:07:26 AM
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I am a little confused by this whole thing. If you don't like U2.com, don't subscribe to U2.com. Suddenly your problem is solved.

I think the point is, though, that a band this big should really be making better use of social media/website to promote themselves... and to give paying fans a little extra... when lesser bands ask for less money on their websites but give you so much more. U2.com feels very corporate. Which confuses me. From a band who used to be about rebellion and pushing barriers.

'Course. We all get conservative as we grow older....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: XXXU2XXX on February 10, 2011, 07:20:14 AM
looks like over at u2.com they are saying the same thing,and Baja the a forum mod. is sending posts to management.                   

http://community.u2.com/topic/21326/t/DUALS-Official-comment-thread-Merged.html
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: lorijane on February 10, 2011, 07:38:50 AM
I've thought this before, baja must have one of the most frustrating jobs.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 07:44:12 AM
I may have to log into my account and comment on that thread.... I am not even sure I've posted ONCE on that site. After signing up there, and then finding this site, this one kind of took over for me....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 07:54:34 AM
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I am a little confused by this whole thing. If you don't like U2.com, don't subscribe to U2.com. Suddenly your problem is solved.

Many have been members for years/decades (!) and suddenly you pay more and get less. And DUALS is the final drop to flow the can over - for them it's jsut enough. Being a fan means, you're interested in supporting the band, of course. And many fans like to support by just being part of the official fanclub. But obviously U2.com switched into a faceless, moneyseeking business only - I understand they're a commercial company, they of course want to earn money. But currently they're biting the hand that feeds them. Look at the examples of R.E.M. or Pearl Jam subscriptions. Cheaper and you get much more in trade.  If you want something from your fans, you have to give them something. They want our money? Fine. So they need to give us something that it's worth the money.

Like I said, the past U2.com releases were mostly really okay, adding the presale code and it's okay for me - $50 may be too much for this, though. But THAT cd is a bad joke. Really. I expected some unknown, unreleased tunes, not new ones, old live recordings would have been really okay. But that is ridiculous. The more I read about past problems with U2.com I'm getting more and more sad that U2 let such a crappy institution do their official representation. And I bet they don't know.

And: Just to sign off and go away won't change anything. They will fill the lack of members by raising the fee and new fans will pay it. No. We need to change something and we will do this the way, Bono taught us: Raising our voices, as many of us as we can get together. Letters, mails, petitions. signs in the shows - we have to use our voice.




Of course we should suggest things. But not to U2.com but to the band and Principal. I would happily pay a 30-40$ a year for real exclusive things which can be:
- The band writing own blog posts (hell, Bono knows how to use a Computer, he writes a column for the Times and Le Monde, he can write one for us!)
- packages with real fan stuff for free, for ALL members (ie. the wallets back then were nice, but only for UK!! members) with shirts, buttons, posters (you can not buy at the store)
- a working European store with ALL available items (the nicest things you only find on US store and the shipping IS to high) plus fanclub only merch
- random prizes or prizes for  competitions like meet & greets, exclusive signed stuff - even Larrys used drum heads would be great for that!
- REAL videos with complete songs from concerts, interviews, sessions - LONG, HIGH QUALITY and of course also for download
- ask the band - feature, with answers every now and then of course (did this with a drummer I was a webmaster for, collected questions in the forum, when 20 or so were there, he wrote answers, took him about 15mins)
- discount on tickets
- more exclusive mp3-downloads
- a REAL EXCLUSIVE cd

...you name it. We all have ideas that can easily be realized by the band and a real good team behind U2.com.

My first and most important suggestion: replace the entire team running U2.com
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 10, 2011, 08:56:29 AM
Over on the U2.com this caught my eye: "This limited edition release, curated by the band, is pressed up in a custom-designed sleeve and made available only to U2.com subscribers. ('U2 Duals' will not be available for sale in shops or online)."

I think it's pretty clear they knew what we were getting.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: bwm231163 on February 10, 2011, 08:59:23 AM
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And: Just to sign off and go away won't change anything. They will fill the lack of members by raising the fee and new fans will pay it. No. We need to change something and we will do this the way, Bono taught us: Raising our voices, as many of us as we can get together. Letters, mails, petitions. signs in the shows - we have to use our voice.

But why do you need to change things? It is a band fanclub and is really not very important. When Bono speaks about activism, he is describing standing up against political persecution, third world exploitation and the denial of human rights. You are talking about activism because you don't like the tracklist of a fan club CD. I think people really need to get a bit of perspective. If you feel the site is not worth the money, just don't subscribe.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 09:00:31 AM
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looks like over at u2.com they are saying the same thing,and Baja the a forum mod. is sending posts to management.                   

http://community.u2.com/topic/21326/t/DUALS-Official-comment-thread-Merged.html

I'll post a link on that thread to come over here. Fingers crossed i don't get banned  ;D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 09:03:53 AM
Sure, they took part in the CD. They maybe had not much time for it since they're currently doing a lot of other things. But the DUALS itself is not the main problem here. It was just the last step, that was too much. Still it's kinda ridiculous.

Maybe U2.com told them whatever - like we would get other stuff this year "oh yeah, we give out some shirts, don't worry guys *dark laugh*"

Or maybe - they just put the sentence there to impress fans "oh yes U2 really care bout you".
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: LittleDany on February 10, 2011, 09:08:37 AM
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And: Just to sign off and go away won't change anything. They will fill the lack of members by raising the fee and new fans will pay it. No. We need to change something and we will do this the way, Bono taught us: Raising our voices, as many of us as we can get together. Letters, mails, petitions. signs in the shows - we have to use our voice.

But why do you need to change things? It is a band fanclub and is really not very important. When Bono speaks about activism, he is describing standing up against political persecution, third world exploitation and the denial of human rights. You are talking about activism because you don't like the tracklist of a fan club CD. I think people really need to get a bit of perspective. If you feel the site is not worth the money, just don't subscribe.

That CD is not what I care about in the main case! If we don't start to change something in small amounts, how can we be able to change anything at all? Well for me it's that I stand up for things I love, things I wanna support and if this includes bettering a fanclub, last but not least for those who come after us, what's wrong with it? We love U2 - why not helping them improve such things to get new fans, to please more long time fans? What's wrong about that, really?

Oh, and isn't he talkng about debts and big companies making to much money? Trying to get their profit with (RED)? So what's wrong with showing him, his internet "face" is exactly such a faceless, moneyseeking company??
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 09:15:36 AM
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And: Just to sign off and go away won't change anything. They will fill the lack of members by raising the fee and new fans will pay it. No. We need to change something and we will do this the way, Bono taught us: Raising our voices, as many of us as we can get together. Letters, mails, petitions. signs in the shows - we have to use our voice.

But why do you need to change things? It is a band fanclub and is really not very important. When Bono speaks about activism, he is describing standing up against political persecution, third world exploitation and the denial of human rights. You are talking about activism because you don't like the tracklist of a fan club CD. I think people really need to get a bit of perspective. If you feel the site is not worth the money, just don't subscribe.

Look, we all acknowledge that u2.com's treatment of fans isn't exactly a catastrophe. But it is nonetheless an insult to hardcore fans. Furthermore, a lot of us aren't actually subscribed to u2.com on this thread - that's not what we're discussing. We're discussing how the people who are subscribed, and have been have been cheated out of their money (e.g. promised an exclusive CD to get them to resubscribe, only for it to be full of what they already own), or given false promises (Pittsburgh being the last show).
Our aim here is to get better treatment for the fans who were enthusiastic enough to shell out $50 for membership, and to get u2 themselves aware of the poor quality of their site.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 10, 2011, 09:30:52 AM
So here's the new tracks that U2 has released for the fan club over the years:

Melon:Remixes for Propaganda
Numb (Gimme Some More Dignity Mix)
Stay (Underdog Mix)
Numb (The Soul Assassins Mix)
Mysterious Ways (Remixed by Massive Attack)

Medium, Rare and Remastered
0

Artificial Horizon
Get on Your Boots (Fish Out of Water mix)
I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight (Live U2360 mix)
Staring at the Sun (Brothers in Rhythm Ambient mix) (only released as promo before)
Unknown Caller (Snow Patrol remix)

DUALS
Stranded (Haiti Mon Amour) (Hybrid Mix) (non-U2 track)
(Amazing Grace/Where the Streets Have No Name previously released on U2.com)

That's it.  That's what U2's fan club has been worth when it comes to music over the years.  (I'm not counting all the live material previously released).  Nine remixes, half of them crap in my opinion.  Compare that to any other major rock band.  Regardless of what you think of U2, the fan club has sucked for some time.     



Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 09:33:15 AM
So, then, you're saying we should just leave it the way it is because they never gave us anything...? So we should continue to expect nothing...? When the fan clubs of OTHER BANDS are far superior for less? This is the information technology age... You have to use new mediums to reach your fans and keep them interested. It's disappointing that U2 is using 1995 antiquated internet marketing to market themselves.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 10, 2011, 09:39:04 AM
My point was, this isn't just U2.com.  This is the band and their ID of how to best use a fan-club.  We have to get their attention to change this.   
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Inishfree on February 10, 2011, 09:58:06 AM
I'm not a member of U2.com and had no problem getting tickets for their 360 tour during the public sale.  But, 50 dollars is too much for membership.  I wouldn't pay it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 09:58:53 AM
It's really ironic. I just listened to a bootleg of PopMart from Rotterdam... And Bono actually expresses a fear of "getting eaten by the corporate machine." Hmm. And he still kind of let it happen anyway.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on February 10, 2011, 10:11:13 AM
I've been reading these posts with interest.  I'm one of those fans that subscribed to Propaganda from the 80's and thought it was great.  But since U2.com arrived the fan club has speadily gone downhill.  It's purely a way to make easy money nowadays, and no consideration is shown towards fans.  I'm no longer a member.  What finished it for me was when they asked people to re-subscribe months early (7 months in my case) so you could get a pre-sale code to buy tickets  for gigs the following year (which were actually around a year after the tickets went on sale).  My view is if you are a member when tickets go on sale you should be entitled to a pre-sale code.  I didn't re-sub and let my membership finish when it was due to.  I felt sad at doing that after being a fan club member for around 25 years, but it wasn't for me anymore.  And, yes, I got the gig tickets easily without a pre-sale code.

I thought the idea of sending Duals (what an insult that is!) back to Principle Management was a great idea, if enough go back the band might just hear about it.  Also a petition would be good, I'd sign it for sure!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 10, 2011, 10:21:08 AM
DUALS is already up on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2_Duals

It would be nice if we could get something into the normal "Reception" area about the controversy it caused.  Remember that they teased us with a free track that turned out to be one of the only new things on the disc!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 10:45:26 AM
Ok, so right now the main ideas are:
1) Mass un-subscription from u2.com
2) Sending copies of Duals to principle management
3) Signing a petition to send to u2.com to make changes

(btw does anyone know how number 3 would be carried out?)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Utwoed on February 10, 2011, 10:56:29 AM
http://www.fanmail.biz/25157.html

Principle Management
(Music Artists Management Company)
250 West 57th Street
Suite 2120
New York, NY 10107
USA
Phone: (212) 765-2330
Fax: (212) 765-2372

Principle Management
(Music Artists Management Company)
30/32 Sir John Rogerson's Quay
Dublin 2
Ireland
Phone: +353 (0)1 6777 330
Fax: +353 (0)1 6777 276

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on February 10, 2011, 11:42:52 AM
I became a fan later in U2's existence (2002) but was a member of U2.com from its inception, up until late 2009.  I let my membership lapse because it just was too much money for too little.  The last CD I got was Medium, Rare, & Remastered.

I got fed up with the lack of information and difficult useability of U2.com (it seems like they never post news on that site; I don't even visit U2.com anymore).  What really stung me, as Northern Star brought up, was realizing that if I used my presale code early in the year, then U2 added shows for my part of the world I had to renew early to have access to presales for the additional shows.  Really?  What a rip-off!

Even though I haven't been a member for over a year, I would be willing to sign a petition/letter that reflected my frustrations with the fan club and why I allowed my membership to lapse.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 10, 2011, 11:48:42 AM
I just sent in a fax expressing my displeasure.  I wasn't mean or disrespectful but surely annoyed.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on February 10, 2011, 11:53:33 AM
I know we've been waffling a bit about whether or not to go public with this, but if we do decide to approach Rolling Stone or another news outlet with a story I just thought of a catchy title:

"October:  The Fall of U2.com" 8)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: AltRockAddict on February 10, 2011, 12:28:24 PM
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Ok, so right now the main ideas are:
1) Mass un-subscription from u2.com
2) Sending copies of Duals to principle management
3) Signing a petition to send to u2.com to make changes

(btw does anyone know how number 3 would be carried out?)

If we did #1 properly (many all at once) we may not need the other two - but they are great ideas!  I'm certainly willing to pull the plug on my membership.  I get more out of @u2 anyway.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 12:59:53 PM
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I know we've been waffling a bit about whether or not to go public with this, but if we do decide to approach Rolling Stone or another news outlet with a story I just thought of a catchy title:

"October:  The Fall of U2.com" 8)

Hey! Is this a rip on my favorite U2 album. *stomps foot*  >:( >:( >:(

Let's not go slamming other U2-related things in our anger over U2.com.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on February 10, 2011, 01:27:35 PM
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I know we've been waffling a bit about whether or not to go public with this, but if we do decide to approach Rolling Stone or another news outlet with a story I just thought of a catchy title:

"October:  The Fall of U2.com" 8)

Hey! Is this a rip on my favorite U2 album. *stomps foot*  >:( >:( >:(

Let's not go slamming other U2-related things in our anger over U2.com.


Hey!  Not a rip on the album.  Actually, "October" is my favorite U2 album as well!

I just thought it was a clever title because October is in the middle of autumn/fall.  And part of the lyrics to the song are: 
"October
And kingdoms rise
And kingdoms fall
But you go on and on"

So I thought it kind of represented our view that U2.com may have fallen, but U2 goes on and we still love them! :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: u2wanderer on February 10, 2011, 02:25:39 PM
As the moderators at Zootopia on u2.com are forwarding all complaints made in ZooTopia to management, it may be important for people to comment there as well and express the displeasure they feel towards this release.  So maybe you could suggest everyone to take a moment to go over there as well and add their views to the two topics that have been set up?

http://community.u2.com/topic/21326 (Free Account Users)
http://community.u2.com/reply/618068 (Paid Subscribers)

If you are a paid subscriber, I suggest that you post in the paid topic.  Nothing will go further than knowing a bunch of paying customers are upset I would expect.  You may have to be logged in to see these links.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Chrisedge on February 10, 2011, 02:30:57 PM
Glad I just re-subscribed this morning. Boycott away.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 10, 2011, 02:31:20 PM
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I know we've been waffling a bit about whether or not to go public with this, but if we do decide to approach Rolling Stone or another news outlet with a story I just thought of a catchy title:

"October:  The Fall of U2.com" 8)

Hey! Is this a rip on my favorite U2 album. *stomps foot*  >:( >:( >:(

Let's not go slamming other U2-related things in our anger over U2.com.


Hey!  Not a rip on the album.  Actually, "October" is my favorite U2 album as well!

I just thought it was a clever title because October is in the middle of autumn/fall.  And part of the lyrics to the song are: 
"October
And kingdoms rise
And kingdoms fall
But you go on and on"

So I thought it kind of represented our view that U2.com may have fallen, but U2 goes on and we still love them! :)

Oh, okay. I'll forgive you. I'm a bit oversensitive about October. ;)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 10, 2011, 02:32:20 PM
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Ok, so right now the main ideas are:
1) Mass un-subscription from u2.com
2) Sending copies of Duals to principle management
3) Signing a petition to send to u2.com to make changes

(btw does anyone know how number 3 would be carried out?)

i think all three. just thinking perhaps we should try and attach some common message (or just a simple slogan) to the cd's so its clear there is a group of people doing it and less likely to be disregarded. then individuals could still chuck on whatever they want in addition.

theres a free petition online site http://www.petitiononline.com/ among many others. just needs us to agree on the text for the petition statement

i'd have a burl but i'm off sick today so no energy sorry.
 

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As the moderators at Zootopia on u2.com are forwarding all complaints made in ZooTopia to management, it may be important for people to comment there as well and express the displeasure they feel towards this release.  So maybe you could suggest everyone to take a moment to go over there as well and add their views to the two topics that have been set up?

http://community.u2.com/topic/21326 (Free Account Users)
http://community.u2.com/reply/618068 (Paid Subscribers)

If you are a paid subscriber, I suggest that you post in the paid topic.  Nothing will go further than knowing a bunch of paying customers are upset I would expect.  You may have to be logged in to see these links.

good idea. dont think this should be our only course tho. should still do the other three above
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Starman on February 10, 2011, 03:30:19 PM
I'm not a member of U2.com, but I will join. I hate that website! It makes the band look so bad. And Duals is a joke. I knew it would be this bad before the track listing was released.

My dad actually subscribed to U2.com to get presale tickets for the Philly concert (in Fall 2009) and we never got our Artificial Horizon CD!!!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Parkhead080893 on February 10, 2011, 04:01:04 PM
I can't justify re subscribing after this joke of a cd. It got me looking into other artists websites, to see what they offered fans. I really struggled to find artists that actually charged their fans never mind charging $50. REM only wanted $10. I think regardless of the cd $50 is just far too much to ask fans to pay. What I really want to use the official website for is breaking news, but again they are always second best on U2 related news. For example take the Paul Mcguiness quote on the new album, now if he has actually said it then why has it not been reported from U2.com. I understand that they are not going to comment on rumours but this has come from the bands manager !!

Does anyone know if Principle Management have an email address to complain ?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 10, 2011, 04:15:07 PM
Duals is the Mubarak of U2.com
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 10, 2011, 05:43:16 PM
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Does anyone know if Principle Management have an email address to complain ?

No, Principle Management don't feel that this new-fangled 'email' technology will ever take off. They find the creation of a 'website' something that they probably should do, but really, it's not going to catch on.

your best bet is use carrier pigeon.

Ok they probably do have one. i just don't know it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: TheEdgeIn4D~Too much is NOT enough! {T-PEP} on February 10, 2011, 05:45:39 PM
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Does anyone know if Principle Management have an email address to complain ?

your best bet is use carrier pigeon.


 :D :D :D :D

Awesome.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 06:06:19 PM
We've got some great plans here guys, but we also need to consider the demands, otherwise the conversation will go like this:

u2.com: Ok, you have our attention, what do you guys want?
us: Derp

So what exactly do we want changed? Let's (try to) keep it realistic.
To get the ball rolling:

CDs made up entirely of exclusive content, songs that the hardest of hardcore fans wouldn't have.

Official bootlegs of some, if not all shows - we know they can do this: every so often they have video clips of recent shows on the home page, and the visual and audio quality is great. If the higher ups can do that, if Pearl Jams website can do it, so can u2. Especially if they're charging $50

More involvement from the band, or from someone who regularly talks to the band, like Coldplay.coms 'oracle', who talks to the band and answers fans questions about what the band is up to. If the band could directly (or through an 'oracle') answer fan questions, or make more videos of what they're up to (like adam's studio clips, or Bono's 'a day in the life of the Edge'), it would be great.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Miami66 on February 10, 2011, 06:18:55 PM
Hey put [Boycott Duals] in your name if your in.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: dubzoo on February 10, 2011, 06:32:06 PM
I feel disheartened by all of this. I was a Propaganda subscriber for many years and I feel we have been cheated. Yes, I would like to give up my subscription but then I would have to be at the back of the line to get tickets. Sadly, I am on board but wave the flag of discontent.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 10, 2011, 07:23:34 PM
jamie, can't add anything to those, would provide a pretty good fan experience.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JasontheJedi on February 10, 2011, 07:35:23 PM
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We've got some great plans here guys, but we also need to consider the demands, otherwise the conversation will go like this:

u2.com: Ok, you have our attention, what do you guys want?
us: Derp

So what exactly do we want changed? Let's (try to) keep it realistic.
To get the ball rolling:

CDs made up entirely of exclusive content, songs that the hardest of hardcore fans wouldn't have.

Official bootlegs of some, if not all shows - we know they can do this: every so often they have video clips of recent shows on the home page, and the visual and audio quality is great. If the higher ups can do that, if Pearl Jams website can do it, so can u2. Especially if they're charging $50

More involvement from the band, or from someone who regularly talks to the band, like Coldplay.coms 'oracle', who talks to the band and answers fans questions about what the band is up to. If the band could directly (or through an 'oracle') answer fan questions, or make more videos of what they're up to (like adam's studio clips, or Bono's 'a day in the life of the Edge'), it would be great.

I love all those ideas.

Really the only thing I want is exclusive to mean exclusive. There is literally nothing members get of value from u2.com. I guess that's not really descriptive....earlier when I said I'll think of some ideas, what I really meant is I'll wait around to agree with you.  :D


***As a side note...to those saying they join only for the presale, I urge you to stop doing that for several reasons:
1. You can get the tickets you want through other various fan presales (further evidencing that u2.com membership is worthless)
2. You can get the tickets you want if you get online immediately when tickets go on sale.
3. Ticketmaster will always release more tickets. Keep checking. Especially closer to the concert date
4. 2 GAs at face value plus the membership cost are going to be almost the same amount you'd pay for scalped tickets on Stubhub/other ticket broker websites. More when you factor in several years worth of membership
5. You do not have first pick at tickets anymore. Your choice for seats will be just as good during the public sale as it is for the u2.com presale. Don't believe me? Try it next time tickets go on sale. Try for the $250 immediately when tickets go on sale during the presale and try it again during the public sale. You will find no difference. If you're trying to get seats, the best ones will always be gone anyway. Sorry if I'm being cynical, but local promoters, corporations, sponsors, friends of sponsors, etc. will always have first pick. It's sad, but it's reality. Okay I'm off my soapbox now.  ;D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 08:05:09 PM
 :D That's ok, as long as you guys think they're good ideas. Maybe at the end of of the demands/suggestions, we could put "Really, we just want exclusive to mean exclusive". let them know we want to be getting our moneys worth.
As for the petition, what exactly should it say? It has to be pretty concise. Something about better treatment of fans, too much money, no good exclusive offerings etc... but summed up.
Sorry i haven't posted more ideas/drafts, but i've been writing essays, and it's very tiring  :(  ;D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: u2ireland on February 10, 2011, 09:08:53 PM
I think some of these ideas are way over their head. You're asking too much!!!! I think before they do anything "extra" they need to start at the beginning.  They need to have a fully functioning website, store, and competent customer service. Currently they don't have any of those! They should take a few lessons from Bon Jovi. I've only seen a small bit of how they run Bon Jovi and from the little I've seen, it is 1000x better.

I only became a member in 2009, placed an order from the shop and they royally screwed that up for months and months. Then when I renewed I could no longer access my membership, home page, the paid sections etc. I was totally erased. I sent email after email for months and months no response! I posted on the boards to only get a rude reply from the mods. All this time they had my membership money! I finally was able to access my page by changing my login info.-(no help from them), only to find out that all my stuff was gone! I still haven't received any help from anyone! And my page says I've been a member for only 2 weeks. The "customer service" over there is non-existent. I will not be renewing my membership and wish I hadn't this last time. That place totally SUCKS! It totally amazes me that U2 would be affiliated with such a mess.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 10, 2011, 09:15:42 PM
no worries man take ur time. no complaints from those who are less motivated. if anyone gets antsy they can draft something themselves.

i honestly think its all just a result of too much outsourcing and the band not willing or able to keep track of things at this stage of their career (bonus guitar picks etc) but if they wanna be current they got put the work in. or they can go into semi retirement like most old bands. they cant have it both ways tho.


and its not over their heads. they just need to get motivated and fix it. it's seriously not that hard, they've got a year before the next fan club release and no more presales for a while so they can concentrate on the basics for a while.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: u2ireland on February 10, 2011, 09:21:52 PM

and its not over their heads. they just need to get motivated and fix it. it's seriously not that hard, they've got a year before the next fan club release and no more presales for a while so they can concentrate on the basics for a while.
[/quote]

I was being sarcastic! But they do need to fix the basics first. I don't think it's difficult. But look what/who we are dealing with!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 10, 2011, 10:25:49 PM
u2ireland, i think you make a good point - the very basics need to get sorted first. Perhaps the 'demands' can focus on having competent customer service, honest tour announcements etc, and then we can move on to suggestions like bootlegs and genuinely exclusive material etc.

So, to map this out, i'd guess the message to u2.com would involve:

1)Starting off with a basic statement about fan dissatisfaction, how we think fans are being treated poorly, and that we want things to change.
2)Informing them that a boycott and petition have been organised, and that the website will be viewed with disdain by fans until changes are made.
3)Listing the general problems everyone has with the site.
4)Listing specifically what we want changed (customer service, shipping issues, tour announcements, genuine exclusives etc)
5)Stating the exclusives offered by the site aren't good enough, and suggesting things that would make the site worth $50, e.g. official bootlegs.

Does that sound good?
Parts 1 and 2 just need an eloquent writer, but we're gonna need everyone to think of the key issues to put into sections 3, 4 and 5. I'm not sure on my own what to add.
What are (3) the general problems, (4) what specifically has to be changed, and (5) what extras/exclusive content should be available?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 10, 2011, 10:29:01 PM
in 5) i would give a few examples of other band sites and what they provide for less.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 10, 2011, 11:42:06 PM
Attempting to craft a message...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: rantard on February 11, 2011, 12:28:38 AM
If U2 want to maintain relevance, create hits, and expand their fan base while retaining longtime listeners, it's time to take some steps backwards. It's time for them to manage things themselves. They are powerful enough to ax their relationships with jumbo mega-corporations and reconnect with their fans in places other than concert venues. This seems to be the only time they REALLY connect with us.

I'm a member, but have had buyer's remorse every year for the past three year's that I've paid my $40 or $50 bucks.

Duals sucks. Member exclusives like access to ALL their music videos and ALL their songs is cool, but if you're a real fan you're listening to your own collection all the time anyway.

Pre-Sale codes are a real joke nowadays. I should know, I've worked for Live Nation and the House of Blues.

My Idea of an Exclusive Fan Club Release:

1. An Album featuring unreleased or unheard Acoustic versions of various tracks
2. Free Live MP3 Album from a show of our choice.
3. An Album of Cover Songs by people they admire that we haven't heard before
4. A copy of Wide Awake In Europe. Why couldn't they make this a Fan Club Only release?

I'd like to see more direct interaction from the band members. It also might be time for them to part ways with Paul McGuinness. He's the one streamlining their organization and he seems to be running out of good ideas after 30 years.

Boycott Options:

1. I like the idea of sending Duals to Principle
2. Post your concerns on U2.com forum
3. Fax your letter of disconnect (written intelligently but from the heart) directly to Principle
4. Share the ATU2 poll results on U2.com
5. Send comments and concerns via email to Live Nation President and CEO, Michael Rapino and CEO of Global Touring, Arthur Fogel. If they have the same email format as most Live Nation staff, it's their first name (period) last name @ livenation.com

Whatever they're thinking of calling their next album they should change it to "We're Sorry" or "For The Fans" or "Oops"
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: sonialastrega on February 11, 2011, 12:30:46 AM
Hello, U2...

Look at this fanclub (http://remhq.com/index.php)

Now back at yours (http://www.u2.com)

Now look at this fanclub (http://pearljam.com/)

Now back at yours (http://www.u2.com/community/index/)

Sadly, they aren't your fanclubs. But if you stopped letting venal assmonkies have control of your fanclub, it could look just like it. Look down, now back up. Where are you? You're on a fan forum, trudging through a million pixels of unhappiness. What did you give us? Some repackaged crap. Look up! What did you do? You sacked the assmonkies. Look again, the member exclusive is now diamonds.

Anything is possible when you sack the venal assmonkies (http://www.livenation.com/).


Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 11, 2011, 01:58:36 AM
I have finished the letter. I think that I covered all of the bases. I intend to send it to Principle Management myself as well.

Quote
To whom it may concern,

I send you this message today on behalf of the paid subscribers of U2.com. Recently, many of us have become dissatisfied with the way that the website is run. When U2 partnered with Live Nation in 2008, Bono said "With regards to U2.com, we feel we've got a great website, but we want to make it a lot better. We want a closer, more direct relationship between the band and its audience and Live Nation has pledged to help us with that (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/u2-to-join-live-nation-artists-57319537.html)." However, since the commencement of that partnership many fans have begun to feel ostracized from the band. Not only has the cost of subscription increased, but many paid members now feel as if they are not getting value for the money that they are spending.

Some features of U2.com are universally admired by the fans. The amount of content in the free site’s Discography and Lyrics sections are second-to-none when compared with official websites for many other artists, and the ongoing Willie’s Diary is enjoyed by every paid member. But this is not enough to warrant the high cost of a subscription, even with the pre-sale access codes taken into account. Fans have many concerns over the way that U2.com is being run, and the feeling of connection with the band that we all love and admire has changed from one of closeness and intimacy to one where we are simply being used for our money.

Primary among our concerns is the customer service of the website and the U2.com shop. Though we understand that it is near impossible to make every single customer happy, too many people are having negative experiences. One of the problems is that the coupon discount is unable to be applied to new items in the U2.com shop, such as the Artificial Horizon vinyl and the Rose Bowl DVD and Blu-Ray releases. Perhaps the best – and certainly the most universal – example of problems with customer service is the fiasco surrounding Artificial Horizon. Many people were upset that a release which was supposed to be exclusive to paying subscribers was made available for commercial release on vinyl through the U2.com shop. When the orders for the vinyl release closed further problems ensued. The demand for the product far exceeded expectations, and so orders were backlogged for weeks; sometimes for months. When the product finally did arrive, customers found that the vinyl discs were warped and unplayable. It was an unpleasant experience for all who were involved.

Unfortunately it is not the only example where customer service has been lacking. Orders from the U2.com shop have not been shipped out for weeks, or even cancelled altogether. When people call to see what has happened with their orders the responses that are given are both generic and uninformative. New members are unable to access the areas they paid to see, and sometimes the accounts are even reset. The number of complaints in Zootopia is proof enough of this. Further complaints have come from the manner in which the dates for upcoming concerts on the tour have been released. While we understand that it is an attempt to thwart scalpers, the result is that many fans are not informed of the presale in time to use their codes for the dates that they wish to see. It also leads to fans not using their codes in case a concert closer to home is announced at a later date; the prime example of this is Britain and Ireland last year, where many residents did not buy tickets for concerts in Spain, France, or Germany as they were certain that dates in the UK and Ireland would be announced. They were not, and many fans were left disappointed with unused presale access codes, something which could have been avoided entirely if they had been made aware that if they wished to see U2 play it would have to be on the continent. Another example is the closing concert on the forthcoming leg in North America. No less than four cities have held the title of being the last night of the leg, which has always been considered to be a special occasion by band and fan alike. As a result, many fans have bought tickets to concerts that are labeled as the last of the leg (sometimes on multiple occasions), only to find that it changes later. While it may help to stop some scalpers, the practice of announcing dates intermittently simply doesn’t work; not when it is at the expense of the fans who helped U2 to become what it is today.

Another major concern is the content of the free gift each year, which for many people is an encouragement to join U2.com. In years where no tour is being held, it is often the reason why subscriptions are renewed. Prior to the partnership with Live Nation, the gifts were well received. U2.COMmunication was a unique memento of the Vertigo Tour, which allowed fans to have some tracks from both concert films on the tour, as well as video that was unavailable in any other way. Zoo2 and U2 Go Home allowed fans to have a legitimate CD copy of what are generally thought to be two of U2’s best video releases; the latter, considered the best free gift to date, also gave fans a free T-shirt, with a choice from several designs. And of course, further back in time there were the Hasta la Vista, Baby and Melon CDs. But since the joining with Live Nation, the quality of these gifts has been reduced drastically.

The primary problem is that, by joining U2.com, paying members are promised exclusive content; this includes Willie’s Diary, some video, and interviews. Many fans associate the exclusive content with the material on the free gift as well; and since the partnership with Live Nation, this has not happened. No track on Medium, Rare & Remastered was unreleased; fans already had them from The Complete U2, the remastered albums, and various singles. Only three tracks on Artificial Horizon (four if you include the “Unknown Caller” download after purchasing the vinyl) had not been heard before, and one track, “Fast Cars”, had been included on the previous free gift. They were not universally enjoyed but they were tolerated as interesting collections, even if most of the content was already owned by the people receiving them.

U2 Duals has crossed the line of tolerance. With the previous releases, the consolation was that the material was at least somewhat exclusive by virtue of having been released as B-sides. Four of the songs on U2 Duals (“The Wanderer”, “When Love Comes to Town”, “Miss Sarajevo”, and “The Saints Are Coming”) were released – sometimes multiple times – on widely available studio albums and compilations. Most of the others are available on iTunes for a dollar. As a result the fan outcry and outrage over this year’s gift has been considerable, spawning numerous lengthy discussions on Zooropa and various U2 fansites. Many longtime fans have reached the point where they no longer wish to renew their subscription to U2.com, and many are prepared to boycott the website entirely. The article on U2 Duals states that the release was curated by the band; but we have a hard time believing that they could sanction a release which has left so many people disillusioned. They are tired of feeling like they are being used for their money and getting nothing of value in return; the exclusive content being offered simply isn’t enough for what they have to pay to get it.

The REM subscription costs $12 a year and members receive several exclusive tracks. The Coldplay.com subscription is free, and the newsletters they send out often contain contests where members can win items used by the band, and they frequently give away unreleased songs and remixes. Pearl Jam’s fanclub, described by many U2 fans as one of the best that there is, gives streaming radio access, a magazine in PDF and hardcopy formats, free tracks for both download and vinyl, limited edition t-shirts, and a coupon that allows a user to download a free ‘bootleg’ Pearl Jam concert of their choice, in addition to all of the other perks that U2.com offers (full website access, some exclusive video and interviews, and pre-sale codes), for $40.

$50 is a lot of money for many people. They pay it year after year because they love the band and they hope to get the exclusive content that they are promised. The content that is currently offered is the bare minimum, and it is not enough to entice people to continue to renew their subscription. There is a lot that could be done to improve the U2.com experience and justify the expensive $50 price of membership.
•   Prompt responses from customer service regarding delayed or cancelled orders;
•   Allow the U2.com shop coupon to be used on newly available products;
•   Return to announcing all of the concert dates on a leg at once. It may not thwart the scalpers but neither does the current practice, and keeping the fans happy is more important;
•   Occasional posts or interviews by the band with members, as they used to do on the old Popmart website on MSN; or an option where users can submit questions that will then be answered by the band members;
•   Competitions for signed albums or singles – perhaps even exclusive packages to concerts that include airfare, hotel rooms, and backstage passes;
•   Full-length videos instead of the abbreviated clips that are currently shown on the website;
•   A free gift that is comprised only of material that is actually exclusive: songs that have never before been released, and never will be released in the future, whether they be live, remixes, demos, or discarded album tracks;
•   More exclusive downloads; the holiday MP3 of “Amazing Grace” / “Where the Streets Have No Name” was a joy, and other downloads would be most welcome;
•   Allow fans to download a ‘bootleg’ concert of their choice. We know that U2 record every single thing that they do, whether it be a concert, a soundcheck, or even a jam in Bono’s basement. They’ve said for years that they would like to make that content available to fans, and it was one thing that was heavily teased during the initial link-up with iTunes. Pearl Jam has proven that it can be done, so surely U2 can do the same.


We know how much Bono, The Edge, Adam, and Larry care about their fans; Larry taking the time to personally sort out the ticket debacle at the beginning of the Vertigo Tour is proof of that. U2 became a success largely because of their live set, in which each member strived on a nightly basis to connect with the audience. It worked. The relationship between band and fan was one of the closest and most intimate connections that could be imagined. In recent years this connection has faded, and many people who have been fans for years, even decades, now feel ostracized and closed off from the band that they have followed and loved for so long. In the end, as U2.com is their website, the responsibility for these faults lie with the members of the band, and if any changes are to be made the onus is on them to do so. We cannot believe that they will allow the treatment of their fans to continue in such a manner. Bono once thanked us all for supporting the band through the early years, and for “giving us £500 each day”. We will all be more than happy to continue doing so; we’d just like to get some value from that money, so that we can say that we continue to have a special and intimate relationship with U2.


Sincerely,

The Fans
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 11, 2011, 02:58:57 AM
looks good, i would add only "studio updates through a video diary or early mixes of tracks in progress" to the wishlist. may as well ask and some other reasonably big bands do it

just let us know where to sign.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Aqua on February 11, 2011, 03:14:39 AM
 8) awesome.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 11, 2011, 03:18:26 AM
I'd also add...

PS: You suck
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MissSarajevo on February 11, 2011, 04:23:39 AM
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I'd also add...

PS: You suck


 ;D





Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 04:54:36 AM
Where do I get to sign this?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: achtungjoshua on February 11, 2011, 05:09:12 AM
The e-mail address I have used in the past when I want to write to U2 is info@numb.ie. If you look in the CD inserts you'll see it is the e-m address they quote there.

I sent them an e-mail after Bono's injury last year (I won't tell you what I said in it!!) but they replied within 24 hours, thanking me for my e-mail and assuring me they would pass it on to Bono (of course they probably didn't).

Certainly this may be a good way to complain about U2.Com - as well as e-mailing Live Nation etc...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: achtungjoshua on February 11, 2011, 05:09:12 AM
The e-mail address I have used in the past when I want to write to U2 is info@numb.ie. If you look in the CD inserts you'll see it is the e-m address they quote there.

I sent them an e-mail after Bono's injury last year (I won't tell you what I said in it!!) but they replied within 24 hours, thanking me for my e-mail and assuring me they would pass it on to Bono (of course they probably didn't).

Certainly this may be a good way to complain about U2.Com - as well as e-mailing Live Nation etc...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: StrongGirl on February 11, 2011, 06:38:03 AM
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I'd also add...

PS: You suck


 :D :D :D :D :D

You should be a writer, Briscoe. You do have a way with words!

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Droo on February 11, 2011, 06:48:50 AM
Halfway through the email you refer to "Zooropa" where I assume you meant to say "Zootopia".

I agree about the website. I have 18 posts on Zootopia. Compare that with my post count here.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Dali on February 11, 2011, 06:49:23 AM
I don't get the point because I'm neither a member nor do I use the official site. I prefer the fan sites maintained by those who are fans themselves. I haven't registered back then, even though I would have liked and still would like to get the "Medium And Rare" CD. But $50 just did not seem a good deal.

The remix album and the duets album have met me with a lack of interest. A live CD of a whole show would be interesting, though.

A possible boycott of the site is an interesting move, though, especially given the band's past. So kudos to you.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Inishfree on February 11, 2011, 08:09:04 AM
I never use the offical website either.  I like this one much better.   
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 08:19:31 AM
Well, this site does rock. If only we can get the boys to show up here and answer questions! :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on February 11, 2011, 08:41:09 AM
The letter looks good.  Just change "Zooropa" to "Zootopia" halfway through the letter.  I will add my name to the signature line as well.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 11, 2011, 08:56:05 AM
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I have finished the letter. I think that I covered all of the bases. I intend to send it to Principle Management myself as well.

Quote
To whom it may concern,

I send you this message today on behalf of the paid subscribers of U2.com. Recently, many of us have become dissatisfied with the way that the website is run. When U2 partnered with Live Nation in 2008, Bono said "With regards to U2.com, we feel we've got a great website, but we want to make it a lot better. We want a closer, more direct relationship between the band and its audience and Live Nation has pledged to help us with that (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/u2-to-join-live-nation-artists-57319537.html)." However, since the commencement of that partnership many fans have begun to feel ostracized from the band. Not only has the cost of subscription increased, but many paid members now feel as if they are not getting value for the money that they are spending.

Some features of U2.com are universally admired by the fans. The amount of content in the free site’s Discography and Lyrics sections are second-to-none when compared with official websites for many other artists, and the ongoing Willie’s Diary is enjoyed by every paid member. But this is not enough to warrant the high cost of a subscription, even with the pre-sale access codes taken into account. Fans have many concerns over the way that U2.com is being run, and the feeling of connection with the band that we all love and admire has changed from one of closeness and intimacy to one where we are simply being used for our money.

Primary among our concerns is the customer service of the website and the U2.com shop. Though we understand that it is near impossible to make every single customer happy, too many people are having negative experiences. One of the problems is that the coupon discount is unable to be applied to new items in the U2.com shop, such as the Artificial Horizon vinyl and the Rose Bowl DVD and Blu-Ray releases. Perhaps the best – and certainly the most universal – example of problems with customer service is the fiasco surrounding Artificial Horizon. Many people were upset that a release which was supposed to be exclusive to paying subscribers was made available for commercial release on vinyl through the U2.com shop. When the orders for the vinyl release closed further problems ensued. The demand for the product far exceeded expectations, and so orders were backlogged for weeks; sometimes for months. When the product finally did arrive, customers found that the vinyl discs were warped and unplayable. It was an unpleasant experience for all who were involved.

Unfortunately it is not the only example where customer service has been lacking. Orders from the U2.com shop have not been shipped out for weeks, or even cancelled altogether. When people call to see what has happened with their orders the responses that are given are both generic and uninformative. New members are unable to access the areas they paid to see, and sometimes the accounts are even reset. The number of complaints in Zootopia is proof enough of this. Further complaints have come from the manner in which the dates for upcoming concerts on the tour have been released. While we understand that it is an attempt to thwart scalpers, the result is that many fans are not informed of the presale in time to use their codes for the dates that they wish to see. It also leads to fans not using their codes in case a concert closer to home is announced at a later date; the prime example of this is Britain and Ireland last year, where many residents did not buy tickets for concerts in Spain, France, or Germany as they were certain that dates in the UK and Ireland would be announced. They were not, and many fans were left disappointed with unused presale access codes, something which could have been avoided entirely if they had been made aware that if they wished to see U2 play it would have to be on the continent. Another example is the closing concert on the forthcoming leg in North America. No less than four cities have held the title of being the last night of the leg, which has always been considered to be a special occasion by band and fan alike. As a result, many fans have bought tickets to concerts that are labeled as the last of the leg (sometimes on multiple occasions), only to find that it changes later. While it may help to stop some scalpers, the practice of announcing dates intermittently simply doesn’t work; not when it is at the expense of the fans who helped U2 to become what it is today.

Another major concern is the content of the free gift each year, which for many people is an encouragement to join U2.com. In years where no tour is being held, it is often the reason why subscriptions are renewed. Prior to the partnership with Live Nation, the gifts were well received. U2.COMmunication was a unique memento of the Vertigo Tour, which allowed fans to have some tracks from both concert films on the tour, as well as video that was unavailable in any other way. Zoo2 and U2 Go Home allowed fans to have a legitimate CD copy of what are generally thought to be two of U2’s best video releases; the latter, considered the best free gift to date, also gave fans a free T-shirt, with a choice from several designs. And of course, further back in time there were the Hasta la Vista, Baby and Melon CDs. But since the joining with Live Nation, the quality of these gifts has been reduced drastically.

The primary problem is that, by joining U2.com, paying members are promised exclusive content; this includes Willie’s Diary, some video, and interviews. Many fans associate the exclusive content with the material on the free gift as well; and since the partnership with Live Nation, this has not happened. No track on Medium, Rare & Remastered was unreleased; fans already had them from The Complete U2, the remastered albums, and various singles. Only three tracks on Artificial Horizon (four if you include the “Unknown Caller” download after purchasing the vinyl) had not been heard before, and one track, “Fast Cars”, had been included on the previous free gift. They were not universally enjoyed but they were tolerated as interesting collections, even if most of the content was already owned by the people receiving them.

U2 Duals has crossed the line of tolerance. With the previous releases, the consolation was that the material was at least somewhat exclusive by virtue of having been released as B-sides. Four of the songs on U2 Duals (“The Wanderer”, “When Love Comes to Town”, “Miss Sarajevo”, and “The Saints Are Coming”) were released – sometimes multiple times – on widely available studio albums and compilations. Most of the others are available on iTunes for a dollar. As a result the fan outcry and outrage over this year’s gift has been considerable, spawning numerous lengthy discussions on Zooropa and various U2 fansites. Many longtime fans have reached the point where they no longer wish to renew their subscription to U2.com, and many are prepared to boycott the website entirely. The article on U2 Duals states that the release was curated by the band; but we have a hard time believing that they could sanction a release which has left so many people disillusioned. They are tired of feeling like they are being used for their money and getting nothing of value in return; the exclusive content being offered simply isn’t enough for what they have to pay to get it.

The REM subscription costs $12 a year and members receive several exclusive tracks. The Coldplay.com subscription is free, and the newsletters they send out often contain contests where members can win items used by the band, and they frequently give away unreleased songs and remixes. Pearl Jam’s fanclub, described by many U2 fans as one of the best that there is, gives streaming radio access, a magazine in PDF and hardcopy formats, free tracks for both download and vinyl, limited edition t-shirts, and a coupon that allows a user to download a free ‘bootleg’ Pearl Jam concert of their choice, in addition to all of the other perks that U2.com offers (full website access, some exclusive video and interviews, and pre-sale codes), for $40.

$50 is a lot of money for many people. They pay it year after year because they love the band and they hope to get the exclusive content that they are promised. The content that is currently offered is the bare minimum, and it is not enough to entice people to continue to renew their subscription. There is a lot that could be done to improve the U2.com experience and justify the expensive $50 price of membership.
•   Prompt responses from customer service regarding delayed or cancelled orders;
•   Allow the U2.com shop coupon to be used on newly available products;
•   Return to announcing all of the concert dates on a leg at once. It may not thwart the scalpers but neither does the current practice, and keeping the fans happy is more important;
•   Occasional posts or interviews by the band with members, as they used to do on the old Popmart website on MSN; or an option where users can submit questions that will then be answered by the band members;
•   Competitions for signed albums or singles – perhaps even exclusive packages to concerts that include airfare, hotel rooms, and backstage passes;
•   Full-length videos instead of the abbreviated clips that are currently shown on the website;
•   A free gift that is comprised only of material that is actually exclusive: songs that have never before been released, and never will be released in the future, whether they be live, remixes, demos, or discarded album tracks;
•   More exclusive downloads; the holiday MP3 of “Amazing Grace” / “Where the Streets Have No Name” was a joy, and other downloads would be most welcome;
•   Allow fans to download a ‘bootleg’ concert of their choice. We know that U2 record every single thing that they do, whether it be a concert, a soundcheck, or even a jam in Bono’s basement. They’ve said for years that they would like to make that content available to fans, and it was one thing that was heavily teased during the initial link-up with iTunes. Pearl Jam has proven that it can be done, so surely U2 can do the same.


We know how much Bono, The Edge, Adam, and Larry care about their fans; Larry taking the time to personally sort out the ticket debacle at the beginning of the Vertigo Tour is proof of that. U2 became a success largely because of their live set, in which each member strived on a nightly basis to connect with the audience. It worked. The relationship between band and fan was one of the closest and most intimate connections that could be imagined. In recent years this connection has faded, and many people who have been fans for years, even decades, now feel ostracized and closed off from the band that they have followed and loved for so long. In the end, as U2.com is their website, the responsibility for these faults lie with the members of the band, and if any changes are to be made the onus is on them to do so. We cannot believe that they will allow the treatment of their fans to continue in such a manner. Bono once thanked us all for supporting the band through the early years, and for “giving us £500 each day”. We will all be more than happy to continue doing so; we’d just like to get some value from that money, so that we can say that we continue to have a special and intimate relationship with U2.


Sincerely,

The Fans

This is excellent, i couldn't imagine a more well written message on the subject.
Now, perhaps we should all send this in, or send it to various people (e.g. live nation, u2.com, principle management etc)?
Because as impressive as it is, perhaps the higher ups also need to be swayed by numbers. If we use it as a sort of chain mail, perhaps it would be more effective?
Also, i'd recommend adding in detail the protests that we have planned, something along the lines of "we have organised a mass boycott of u2.com, whereby many users will be unsubscribing. We are also sending copies of Duals to principle management, and organising a mass petition to be signed for change. Hopefully this will show you how widespread this protest is, and how many fans you will lose if things continue as they are."
I just think it will show them we 'mean business', if we're doing more than simply voicing our concerns, but acting on them!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: hj on February 11, 2011, 10:34:44 AM
First off, great letter and I think you sum up how I feel about the whole thing.
But I should tell you I only paid $40 bucks this year for some reason, but I waited until the last moment to subscribe because I really didn't want to, but I feel like I might miss out on opportunities if I don't.  It's a terrible feeling knowing I really have no choice.  If we could actually motivate fans to boycott I would be impressed.

Can I just be the anal retentive grammar captain and point out, if you haven't sent it yet,  there is a slighltly confusing THEY, the use of the third person pronoun seems to refer to the band in the second to last sentence but then the very next they refers to the fans in the last sentence.  I've just added notes down there as an edit.

Thanks for bringing up excellent examples of the kind of site we'd appreciate and that there is room for improvement.  I sure hope we get action.
The Audio section is incomplete at U2.com and I have sent numerous emails with the missing items to no avail. *rolls eyes*  See the track listing for Joshua Tree and does anybody have access to AB over there?


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I have finished the letter. I think that I covered all of the bases. I intend to send it to Principle Management myself as well.

Quote
To whom it may concern,

I send you this message today on behalf of the paid subscribers of U2.com. Recently, many of us have become dissatisfied with the way that the website is run. When U2 partnered with Live Nation in 2008, Bono said "With regards to U2.com, we feel we've got a great website, but we want to make it a lot better. We want a closer, more direct relationship between the band and its audience and Live Nation has pledged to help us with that (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/u2-to-join-live-nation-artists-57319537.html)." However, since the commencement of that partnership many fans have begun to feel ostracized from the band. Not only has the cost of subscription increased, but many paid members now feel as if they are not getting value for the money that they are spending.

Some features of U2.com are universally admired by the fans. The amount of content in the free site’s Discography and Lyrics sections are second-to-none when compared with official websites for many other artists, and the ongoing Willie’s Diary is enjoyed by every paid member. But this is not enough to warrant the high cost of a subscription, even with the pre-sale access codes taken into account. Fans have many concerns over the way that U2.com is being run, and the feeling of connection with the band that we all love and admire has changed from one of closeness and intimacy to one where we are simply being used for our money.

Primary among our concerns is the customer service of the website and the U2.com shop. Though we understand that it is near impossible to make every single customer happy, too many people are having negative experiences. One of the problems is that the coupon discount is unable to be applied to new items in the U2.com shop, such as the Artificial Horizon vinyl and the Rose Bowl DVD and Blu-Ray releases. Perhaps the best – and certainly the most universal – example of problems with customer service is the fiasco surrounding Artificial Horizon. Many people were upset that a release which was supposed to be exclusive to paying subscribers was made available for commercial release on vinyl through the U2.com shop. When the orders for the vinyl release closed further problems ensued. The demand for the product far exceeded expectations, and so orders were backlogged for weeks; sometimes for months. When the product finally did arrive, customers found that the vinyl discs were warped and unplayable. It was an unpleasant experience for all who were involved.

Unfortunately it is not the only example where customer service has been lacking. Orders from the U2.com shop have not been shipped out for weeks, or even cancelled altogether. When people call to see what has happened with their orders the responses that are given are both generic and uninformative. New members are unable to access the areas they paid to see, and sometimes the accounts are even reset. The number of complaints in Zootopia is proof enough of this. Further complaints have come from the manner in which the dates for upcoming concerts on the tour have been released. While we understand that it is an attempt to thwart scalpers, the result is that many fans are not informed of the presale in time to use their codes for the dates that they wish to see. It also leads to fans not using their codes in case a concert closer to home is announced at a later date; the prime example of this is Britain and Ireland last year, where many residents did not buy tickets for concerts in Spain, France, or Germany as they were certain that dates in the UK and Ireland would be announced. They were not, and many fans were left disappointed with unused presale access codes, something which could have been avoided entirely if they had been made aware that if they wished to see U2 play it would have to be on the continent. Another example is the closing concert on the forthcoming leg in North America. No less than four cities have held the title of being the last night of the leg, which has always been considered to be a special occasion by band and fan alike. As a result, many fans have bought tickets to concerts that are labeled as the last of the leg (sometimes on multiple occasions), only to find that it changes later. While it may help to stop some scalpers, the practice of announcing dates intermittently simply doesn’t work; not when it is at the expense of the fans who helped U2 to become what it is today.

Another major concern is the content of the free gift each year, which for many people is an encouragement to join U2.com. In years where no tour is being held, it is often the reason why subscriptions are renewed. Prior to the partnership with Live Nation, the gifts were well received. U2.COMmunication was a unique memento of the Vertigo Tour, which allowed fans to have some tracks from both concert films on the tour, as well as video that was unavailable in any other way. Zoo2 and U2 Go Home allowed fans to have a legitimate CD copy of what are generally thought to be two of U2’s best video releases; the latter, considered the best free gift to date, also gave fans a free T-shirt, with a choice from several designs. And of course, further back in time there were the Hasta la Vista, Baby and Melon CDs. But since the joining with Live Nation, the quality of these gifts has been reduced drastically.

The primary problem is that, by joining U2.com, paying members are promised exclusive content; this includes Willie’s Diary, some video, and interviews. Many fans associate the exclusive content with the material on the free gift as well; and since the partnership with Live Nation, this has not happened. No track on Medium, Rare & Remastered was unreleased; fans already had them from The Complete U2, the remastered albums, and various singles. Only three tracks on Artificial Horizon (four if you include the “Unknown Caller” download after purchasing the vinyl) had not been heard before, and one track, “Fast Cars”, had been included on the previous free gift. They were not universally enjoyed but they were tolerated as interesting collections, even if most of the content was already owned by the people receiving them.

U2 Duals has crossed the line of tolerance. With the previous releases, the consolation was that the material was at least somewhat exclusive by virtue of having been released as B-sides. Four of the songs on U2 Duals (“The Wanderer”, “When Love Comes to Town”, “Miss Sarajevo”, and “The Saints Are Coming”) were released – sometimes multiple times – on widely available studio albums and compilations. Most of the others are available on iTunes for a dollar. As a result the fan outcry and outrage over this year’s gift has been considerable, spawning numerous lengthy discussions on Zooropa (should be Zootopia) and various U2 fansites. Many longtime fans have reached the point where they no longer wish to renew their subscription to U2.com, and many are prepared to boycott the website entirely. The article on U2 Duals states that the release was curated by the band; but we have a hard time believing that they (meaning U2) could sanction a release which has left so many people disillusioned. They (I would suggest the use of the royal WE here) are tired of feeling like they WE are being used for their our money and getting nothing of value in return; the exclusive content being offered simply isn’t enough for what they we have to pay to get it.

The REM subscription costs $12 a year and members receive several exclusive tracks. The Coldplay.com subscription is free, and the newsletters they send out often contain contests where members can win items used by the band, and they frequently give away unreleased songs and remixes. Pearl Jam’s fanclub, described by many U2 fans as one of the best that there is, gives streaming radio access, a magazine in PDF and hardcopy formats, free tracks for both download and vinyl, limited edition t-shirts, and a coupon that allows a user to download a free ‘bootleg’ Pearl Jam concert of their choice, in addition to all of the other perks that U2.com offers (full website access, some exclusive video and interviews, and pre-sale codes), for $40.

$50 is a lot of money for many people. They pay it year after year because they love the band and they hope to get the exclusive content that they are promised. The content that is currently offered is the bare minimum, and it is not enough to entice people to continue to renew their subscription. There is a lot that could be done to improve the U2.com experience and justify the expensive $50 price of membership.
•   Prompt responses from customer service regarding delayed or cancelled orders;
•   Allow the U2.com shop coupon to be used on newly available products;
•   Return to announcing all of the concert dates on a leg at once. It may not thwart the scalpers but neither does the current practice, and keeping the fans happy is more important;
•   Occasional posts or interviews by the band with members, as they used to do on the old Popmart website on MSN; or an option where users can submit questions that will then be answered by the band members;
•   Competitions for signed albums or singles – perhaps even exclusive packages to concerts that include airfare, hotel rooms, and backstage passes;
•   Full-length videos instead of the abbreviated clips that are currently shown on the website;
•   A free gift that is comprised only of material that is actually exclusive: songs that have never before been released, and never will be released in the future, whether they be live, remixes, demos, or discarded album tracks;
•   More exclusive downloads; the holiday MP3 of “Amazing Grace” / “Where the Streets Have No Name” was a joy, and other downloads would be most welcome;
•   Allow fans to download a ‘bootleg’ concert of their choice. We know that U2 record every single thing that they do, whether it be a concert, a soundcheck, or even a jam in Bono’s basement. They’ve said for years that they would like to make that content available to fans, and it was one thing that was heavily teased during the initial link-up with iTunes. Pearl Jam has proven that it can be done, so surely U2 can do the same.


We know how much Bono, The Edge, Adam, and Larry care about their fans; Larry taking the time to personally sort out the ticket debacle at the beginning of the Vertigo Tour is proof of that. U2 became a success largely because of their live set, in which each member strived on a nightly basis to connect with the audience. It worked. The relationship between band and fan was one of the closest and most intimate connections that could be imagined. In recent years this connection has faded, and many people who have been fans for years, even decades, now feel ostracized and closed off from the band that they have followed and loved for so long. In the end, as U2.com is their website, the responsibility for these faults lie with the members of the band, and if any changes are to be made the onus is on them to do so. We cannot believe that they will allow the treatment of their fans to continue in such a manner. Bono once thanked us all for supporting the band through the early years, and for “giving us £500 each day”. We will all be more than happy to continue doing so; we’d just like to get some value from that money, so that we can say that we continue to have a special and intimate relationship with U2.


Sincerely,

The Fans
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: u2ireland on February 11, 2011, 11:22:48 AM
good job!!!
I would just add that customer service in general, in addition to the sentence below. because I've seen a lot of people (myself included) have technical issues with the site and get no help. And the people I have spoken to are clueless. I'm amazed that they get paid for the crap they dispense. They need to be trained and educated. One can ask the same question to a few different people and get different answers- it's ridiculous! And the general unrelated form responses that they send out for any and all questions has to go.


 "Prompt responses from customer service regarding delayed or cancelled orders"
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 11, 2011, 11:40:10 AM
Well this is just my version. You guys can all edit it and such for your own :P
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2011, 11:40:44 AM
Great letter. Very well constructed, and it covers everything. It will be very interesting to see what sort of response it gets.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: EdgeFest [Zenmaster360] on February 11, 2011, 11:49:20 AM
Can you please add in the debaucle about the $100 lithograph that they sold for the Chicago show where it turned out was taken in Atlanta?

http://www.atu2blog.com/u2-coms-chicago-lithograph-isnt-from-chicago/2257/

And another suggestion is exclusive fan-club only merchandise would be a wonderful perk.  That's right.  Give us something even more amazing that we can actually pay MORE money for.  I'm completely serious about that.  Everything doesn't need to be free, but that is just another 'perk' that could be included.  Heck yeah I'd love to have a t-shirt that Joe Public CAN'T buy.  You can either choose to purchase or not choose to purchase, but I would want a membership to ALLOW me to!  THAT is smart marketing.  You can't promise just a pre-sale code and a coaster anymore.  And if you do, that's a "Tier 1" type membership and should be priced as such.  We should get a hell of a lot more for $50!

A wonderful letter indeed.  Great job, Matkin.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 11, 2011, 12:11:42 PM
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Can you please add in the debaucle about the $100 lithograph that they sold for the Chicago show where it turned out was taken in Atlanta?

http://www.atu2blog.com/u2-coms-chicago-lithograph-isnt-from-chicago/2257/

And another suggestion is exclusive fan-club only merchandise would be a wonderful perk.  That's right.  Give us something even more amazing that we can actually pay MORE money for.  I'm completely serious about that.  Everything doesn't need to be free, but that is just another 'perk' that could be included.  Heck yeah I'd love to have a t-shirt that Joe Public CAN'T buy.  You can either choose to purchase or not choose to purchase, but I would want a membership to ALLOW me to!  THAT is smart marketing.  You can't promise just a pre-sale code and a coaster anymore.  And if you do, that's a "Tier 1" type membership and should be priced as such.  We should get a hell of a lot more for $50!

A wonderful letter indeed.  Great job, Matkin.

The Force is strong in this one.  :D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: TheEdgeIn4D~Too much is NOT enough! {T-PEP} on February 11, 2011, 12:30:18 PM
Great, great letter. Well put and respectful.

I do agree with whoever said that we should still threaten the boycott and show that we are willing to carry through on something.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 12:35:18 PM
I'm willing to boycott the site and definitely not pay for next year... However, I'm not sure I'm willing to send back Duals... I kind of paid for it and it's the only thing I've gotten from that pointless membership besides one presale ticket for Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 11, 2011, 05:05:54 PM
Great letter! Thanks for taking the time to actually write this out.  It touches on pretty much everything very clearly, without sounding too demanding.

A few suggestions:

1. Definitely add in something about Propaganda.  A print magazine may no longer be cost effective, but why not a PDF ala Pearl Jam?

2. Let's be specific about the exclusivity of Duals.  Nine tracks are already available directly on iTunes.  While having a CD may be nice for those who don't do Mp3's chances are if you can subscribe to U2.com you can use iTunes.

3. Time to put this to the other fansites: @U2 front page, Interference, U2exit, U2start, ect.  Best way to do it would probably be to make an online petition for people to sign up.  Here, http://www.petitiononline.com/, or here http://www.petitionspot.com/ are both good places to do it.

It might also be a good idea to send it out to the media.  I can't stand it when U2 get bashed in the press, but it would force a response from management.  U2 the band love their fans, but corporate U2 is a different story. Just saw this in an article:

"The band has released the track list for their next U2 Duals album, which is a coveted collection of collaborations with the band that's only available to U2 fan club members... Would you join the U2 fan club just to get a whiff of Duals? I would."
http://www.artistdirect.com/entertainment-news/article/u2-s-new-duals-tracks-revealed/8692736

4. A couple of typo's

Zoo2 and U2 Go Home allowed fans to have a legitimate CD copy of what are generally thought to be two of U2’s best video releases
Zoo Tv not Zoo2

further back in time there were the Hasta la Vista, Baby and Melon CDs.
Hasta La Vista Baby and Melon CD's.

Other than that, looks great!  Can't wait to see their response.


Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 11, 2011, 05:22:23 PM
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Well this is just my version. You guys can all edit it and such for your own :P

if its alright with you melicans maybe hold off sending it until we have a definitive version with all the items people have raised addressed and we can send it all from all of us. we appreciate the effort you've put in so if you would be willing to donate your letter to "on behalf of u2 fans" that'd be grand.

it will just make us seem more organised if we send one letter with lots of sigs rather then all doing our own letter and i think yours sums up the issue as well as anyone could.

if your not up for the edits just say so and someone can jump in and do it. i suspect i'l be well again tomorrow so if noones jumped on it by then i'll incorporate the minor fixes noted and start an online petition unless someone else really wanted to do it (ie i'm not that fussed who does it but will do it if noone else wants to) 
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: rantard on February 11, 2011, 05:23:40 PM
Has anyone posted anything on their Facebook page? They have a wall post announcing Duals right on the main page.

I just did.

Has anyone created a Twitter account or a Hash on atU2's Twitter page? Maybe some should create @U2.comBoycott which could spread like wildfire.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: rantard on February 11, 2011, 05:34:04 PM
Here's what I just posted on their Facebook Wall under the Duals announcement...

To paying U2.com members, this collection is a joke and doesn't contain any "exclusive" material so to speak. A $50 annual membership should include a lot more than what we're being given. Many of the songs on this collection have been released on studio albums, compilations, B-sides, soundtracks, and The Complete Digital Box Set on iTunes. This is a real disappointment for us. Live Nation and U2 owe us an apology and need to fix the situation immediately.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 11, 2011, 05:36:20 PM
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if its alright with you melicans maybe hold off sending it until we have a definitive version with all the items people have raised addressed and we can send it all from all of us. we appreciate the effort you've put in so if you would be willing to donate your letter to "on behalf of u2 fans" that'd be grand.

it will just make us seem more organised if we send one letter with lots of sigs rather then all doing our own letter and i think yours sums up the issue as well as anyone could.

if your not up for the edits just say so and someone can jump in and do it. i suspect i'l be well again tomorrow so if noones jumped on it by then i'll incorporate the minor fixes noted and start an online petition unless someone else really wanted to do it (ie i'm not that fussed who does it but will do it if noone else wants to)  

I've already sent my copy off; did so this morning via email. But I was told by one of the Zootopia mods that it would need to be condensed a lot if anyone were to read it. It seems they won't look at anything more than a page, and this is three, so to get it cut down that far it would probably need to be extensively rewritten anyways. But a condensed/rewritten version would probably work as the text of the petition, depending on which site people go for.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 11, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
I agree - my first reaction was 'too long, they won't read it' no matter how well written. (And it is).

Short, sharp bullet points I reckon is the go.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 11, 2011, 05:47:22 PM
Darn; and I was awake until 5 am to write it! Hopefully somebody else will be edit away 2/3 of it then. I don't think that I would be able to without losing either half of the problems with the website, or the politeness and respectfulness. If I omit the former it seems like we're blowing it out of proportion and there aren't as many problems as we make out. If I omit the latter it won't be read because it will seem rude/brusque/ungrateful; and I don't want to pi*s anyone off with it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 06:14:08 PM
No, it's great! Just list some of the paragraphs as bullet points. All this content is great and describes our problem with the site fully!!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 11, 2011, 06:46:13 PM
i think the length as it stand is ok for a petition. if theres a lot of signatures attached they will read more than page. was it really 3 pages? didnt seem that long. 3 may be too much (between 1 and 2 max i think). as a single letter i think maybe they could blow it off but a petition with good support they'll sit down and look at it more. maybe a slight condensing if anything, we do have some bullet points for them to zoom straight to if they get lost in the words.

no worries about sending it off already. would you mind if we still used it as the basis of the petition tho?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 06:55:02 PM
Are we going to be able to sign it?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 11, 2011, 07:18:55 PM
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was it really 3 pages?

Yes.

Quote
no worries about sending it off already. would you mind if we still used it as the basis of the petition tho?


Not at all.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 11, 2011, 07:36:24 PM
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Are we going to be able to sign it?

online
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 11, 2011, 07:39:48 PM
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Are we going to be able to sign it?

online

Where?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 11, 2011, 08:28:40 PM
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Are we going to be able to sign it?

online

Where?

There are two sites I posted last page, but we'll have to wait for a final text.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: StrongGirl on February 11, 2011, 08:33:59 PM
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I'd also add...

PS: You suck


 :D :D :D :D :D

You should be a writer, Briscoe. You do have a way with words!



Very well written Matkin!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: sw on February 11, 2011, 08:39:25 PM
I have been very busy this week and not really keeping up but I am interested in signing a petition if there is one being circulated and I'll read through this as soon as I can.

Generally I feel any communication from fans to the band could easily be picked up, and spun incorrectly, by the media. Maybe not the worst thing to have happen because then it might get the band's serious attention.  But given that this site and others can be viewed by guests it won't be hard for this to come up in search results.

I feel they left too much to Live Nation. The back office operations of the fan club/u2.com are poorly run--I remember trying to get my membership expiration dates sorted out and the e-mails that would come from Fan Fire were incomprehensible. (NOT the mods, who really tried to help and seem to have their hands tied and get the brunt of the complaints)

Also, as with many of us, as they've gotten older their lives are more complicated and they're generally busier than they were years ago with their non-U2 activities, and I don't mean Spider-Man only. All of them now have kids, and their parents of band members would be getting up there in years by now. And technology doesn't necessarily simplify things. Reliance upon e-mail can provide quick communication but it also allows people to procrastinate decision-making more than ever.  Bono is not the only one involved in non-profits, causes, etc. That's not an excuse for "Duals" or the lack of engagement with fans online, or the way concerts are announced (which I blame Live Nation totally, because LN has done this with other bands). But it explains a lot.

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Utwoed on February 12, 2011, 10:45:18 AM
I wouldn't bother mentioning anything in that letter about how they tour, that has nothing to do with U2.com as a website.  Also, there are many bands who add shows as the tour goes along, and not all at once, especially the huge acts.  I've seen that complaint about other bands.  Since Bono had to have emergency back surgery that threw a big wrench into planning the rest of the tour.  Negotiating with venues and their availabity takes time, sometimes things don't work out at the exact time a tour is announced.  I really see the touring issue a non-issue.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 12, 2011, 03:23:43 PM
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if your not up for the edits just say so and someone can jump in and do it. i suspect i'l be well again tomorrow so if noones jumped on it by then i'll incorporate the minor fixes noted and start an online petition unless someone else really wanted to do it (ie i'm not that fussed who does it but will do it if noone else wants to) 

sorry guys, i'm not up to doing this and will be back at work tomorrow. does anyone else have any time to incoporate all the comments?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 12, 2011, 03:58:50 PM
I'd want to, but i'm swamped with yet another essay... either it will take a few days, or someone else can make a draft of MelicansMatkin's letter with the additions. 
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 12, 2011, 04:41:40 PM
Alright I'm working on a shorter version right now.  Should be done in a few hours.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 12, 2011, 05:10:29 PM
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Alright I'm working on a shorter version right now.  Should be done in a few hours.

Thanks a lot! We all really appreciate it  :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 12, 2011, 08:59:15 PM
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Alright I'm working on a shorter version right now.  Should be done in a few hours.

thanks mate, sorry to pyke, was hoping to be a bit better by now and too much chores to do on a sunday.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 15, 2011, 08:59:50 PM
Out of curioisty, how is the modified letter coming along?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 16, 2011, 03:31:26 PM
i think gnmet was doing something on it but he seems to have been held up unexpectedly.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 16, 2011, 05:04:03 PM
My bad, I thought I already posted this.   :(
Sorry about that.

To whom it may concern,

We are writing to you today because recently, many of us have become dissatisfied with the way that U2.com is run. When U2 partnered with Live Nation in 2008, Bono said "With regards to U2.com, we feel we've got a great website, but we want to make it a lot better. We want a closer, more direct relationship between the band and its audience and Live Nation has pledged to help us with that." However, since then many fans have felt ostracized from the band. Not only has the cost of subscription increased, but also many paid members now feel as if they are not getting value for the money that they are spending.

Here are some of our problems with the current website.

1.   Customer Service – Purchasing almost anything from U2.com has become a nightmare.  Orders are frequently delayed, sometimes for months, or simply canceled. When people try to find what happened with their orders responses are both generic and uninformative.  Often emails sent to subscribers about the status of their accounts are completely incorrect.

2.   Presales – For years many years U2 fans have paid for U2.com membership to get the first crack at U2 tickets.  However that is no longer the case.  Presale entry is now also available from a variety of sources including from certain credit cards, sports teams and other

3.   “Exclusive” CD’s – Aside from the pre-sales one of the best parts of fan club membership were the exclusive CD’s.  Melon, Hasta La Vista Baby, U2.Communication, Zoo TV Live and U2 Go Home.  However recently the quality of these releases has taken a nosedive.  All of the songs on Medium Rare and Remastered were previously released with The Complete U2, Remastered Albums and various single releases. All were also available on iTunes.  Only three tracks on Artificial Horizon were not previously released and “Fast Cars” was featured on a previous free gift.  

The upcoming release of U2: Duals has crossed the line. Four of the songs were released on widely available studio albums sometimes multiple times and nine of the tracks are directly available on iTunes.  This has pushed us to the breaking point.  To put songs from studio albums on a fan club release is quite frankly ridiculous and almost insulting.

4.   Value – Aside from Willie’s Diary, widely beloved by U2 fans, there just isn’t anything available to justify spending $50. REM subscription is $12 and members receive actual unreleased tracks. Coldplay’s website is entirely free and has Pearl Jam’s fan club, described by many U2 fans as one of the best that there is, gives streaming radio access, a magazine in PDF and hardcopy formats, free tracks for both download and vinyl, limited edition t-shirts, and a coupon that allows a user to download a free ‘bootleg’ Pearl Jam concert of their choice, in addition to all of the other perks that U2.com offers (full website access, some exclusive video and interviews, and pre-sale codes), for $40.

5.   Incorrect Information – Often information posted on U2.com is dead wrong. The site has frequently post wrong set-lists, wrong tour dates, $100 lithographs of the wrong concert and many other ridiculous mistakes.

Whenever news is about to drop U2.com seems to be at best several hours and at worst several weeks behind fan sites such as U2gigs and @U2. In fact now many consider the fan-sites to be more accurate than U2.com.

6.   The Press – Instead of utilizing U2.com to speak to fans the band ends up sending information.  Many of us are baffled by the conflicting information that emerges.  Depending on what article you read the new album is either definitely coming out in a few months or may be coming out in a few months.  It is either a club album, the meditative Songs of Ascent or something with Danger Mouse.

So if we are going to spend $50 there really has to be more than Willie’s Diaries as exclusive content. What should be changed?

1.   Better customer service on U2.com.  
2.   Less blatant errors.  No one is perfect, but the amount of screw-ups that happen should be unacceptable for the biggest band in the world.
3.   More exclusive content.  Propaganda was beloved by the fan-base as a direct connection between the band and the fans. While a print version may no longer be cost effective a pdf or even some original stories on U2.com is a must.
4.   Actual “exclusive” CD’s.  We know that U2 records almost everything they do, be it concerts, jams in Bono’s basement or sound-checks. It’s time to bring some of that to the light.
5.   Full-length videos as opposed to short cell-phone camera recordings.
6.   More information directly from U2 as opposed to through the press.  Even something like the Oracle, on Coldplay.com would be fantastic.

We know how much Bono, The Edge, Adam, and Larry care about their fans. Larry taking the time to personally sort out the ticket debacle at the beginning of the Vertigo Tour is proof of that. We also understand that this is a crazy time for U2 with Bono’s injury, a tour, a new album and Spiderman. But the fact is that we just can’t justify continuing to spend $50 for a product that is embarrassingly sub par.

Bono once thanked us all for supporting the band through the early years, and for “giving us £500 each day”. We will all be more than happy to continue doing so; we’d just like to get some value from that money, so that we can say that we continue to have a special and intimate relationship with U2.

Sincerely,

The Fans
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 16, 2011, 05:39:56 PM
this is excellent. really really excellent work.

you gonna upload it to a petition site?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 16, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Yes, this is perfect. Fantastic work gnmmet, worth the wait!  :)

I think we need to consider now what the next step is. A few questions are:

Which people do we send this message to, and should it be sent by many of us (instead of one), like chain mail?
How do we get a petition signed online (i personally have no experience with this, but someone else might)?
How do we convince people on various fan sites to boycott (especially on u2.com itself, where i could see us being banned)?

Just as a heads up, when i linked to this thread over at interference, a lot of them scoffed at the idea of the boycott, saying we were over-reacting to 'Duals', and that non-subscribers urging members to quit was hypocritical. I explained in full our argument, but since then i've received no solid support... any ideas how we could salvage the situation on interference?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: whitewave on February 16, 2011, 06:12:26 PM
That is awesome and very accurate.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 16, 2011, 06:49:21 PM
Ok if we are good with this, then there are a few steps to take.

1. Upload it onto one of the petition sites.  Basically what happens is once someone creates the petition they can then post a link to it and send that around. 

2. Link to it on all the other fan sites.  With Interference I'd say, this has gone beyond Duals it's about U2.com in general. If they want to see U2.com become better then signing a petition is good way to express that.  No one has to cancel anything if they don't want to. 

3. Contact the media.  No idea what to do here, any suggestions?

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 16, 2011, 07:10:29 PM
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Ok if we are good with this, then there are a few steps to take.

1. Upload it onto one of the petition sites.  Basically what happens is once someone creates the petition they can then post a link to it and send that around. 

2. Link to it on all the other fan sites.  With Interference I'd say, this has gone beyond Duals it's about U2.com in general. If they want to see U2.com become better then signing a petition is good way to express that.  No one has to cancel anything if they don't want to. 

3. Contact the media.  No idea what to do here, any suggestions?



i think definitely leave 3 depending on the success of 1 & 2.

ie if noone signs it then leave it at that. if heaps of people sign it and they make some changes, cool. if heaps of people sign and nothing happens then we could consider 3. wouldnt know how to go about it though.

i agree that even if people think we're over reacting to duals that they would likely support the petition as its about much more than that. i am very surprised they like it tho i must say.

so yeah stick it up, send some links around and see what happens. i'll put it up if you like.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 16, 2011, 07:13:07 PM
ok so i'm on the website and they want a petition title and a url (eg www.petitionspot.com/petitions/xxxxxxxx)

any ideas. i've pencilled in u2 fan club needs to pimprove but that pretty banal.

also just thinking does anyone have any experience with these websites, are there better ones then others (that make signing it straightforward?). obviously important is that they dont sell you email on to advertiser or others. the one above states that they dont.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on February 17, 2011, 09:55:49 AM
That letter is brilliant!   I'll sign the petition and put a link to it on my blog.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 17, 2011, 04:31:52 PM
any ideas on a title anyone? i havent been able to think of anything snappy or punchy.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Johnny Feathers on February 17, 2011, 06:01:35 PM
My $.02:

I think I paid for a membership for U2's fan club once, back around the Vertigo tour, I believe.  I can't honestly imagine doing so again, for any band.  No band is going to reserve much if anything for fan club members--they want to sell to the masses, as much as possible.  Which means that their best work will NOT be exclusive to a fan club.  Remix compilations and audio from already-released live concert videos don't count as incentives.  Ditto concert tickets.  That was the reason, of course, that I had joined in the first place, and then had the "privilege" of buying 300-level tickets at full price.  Or, I could just have waited for the rest of the good seats to go on sale to the general public.  Or, just pay out the nose to a scalper, and get seats I wanted.  Because, again, the band was mostly interested in selling to EVERYONE, not just the loyal fan club members.

Fan clubs, in short, are in the business of taking your money and providing as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE back to you, to keep you ponying up next year.  If they can dangle some carrot like first dibs to concert tickets the following year, so much the better.  Maybe I'm jaded, but that's my take.

I'll pay for quality music, tickets, and merch from any band I like.  But I won't subscribe to them.  It's about as worthless as the "extended warranties" at Best Buy.  Although, all this said, I've heard good things about Pearl Jam's club--I'm just not a very big PJ fan.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: sw on February 17, 2011, 09:01:45 PM
As far as media awareness, all that has to happen is enough fans posting the petition link on their personal Twitter accounts. Use the "#u2" hashtag and eventually it'll get picked up. Perhaps something simple as "U2, we love you but please fix your fan club" and add the link.

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 18, 2011, 05:17:47 AM
I would definitely do that. I just need to know where the links are and stuff.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: mariamontreal on February 18, 2011, 06:34:17 AM
So where is this petition ? I' m with you on this one.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 18, 2011, 10:02:52 AM
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ok so i'm on the website and they want a petition title and a url (eg www.petitionspot.com/petitions/xxxxxxxx)


just waiting on a good suggestion for title and url and i'll upload. sorry to outsource this but the only ones i can think of are crap
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 18, 2011, 03:23:40 PM
Hmm, how about

'U2 fans against exploitation by u2.com'?

Or instead of exploitation, it could be ineptitude, poor service etc, or all of them?

I guess it just has to be a simple title, but one which gets the point across.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: The Exile on February 18, 2011, 03:32:44 PM
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ok so i'm on the website and they want a petition title and a url (eg www.petitionspot.com/petitions/xxxxxxxx)


just waiting on a good suggestion for title and url and i'll upload. sorry to outsource this but the only ones i can think of are crap

How about "How Long Must We Sing This Song?" If that won't work, then I'd go with "This Fanclub is a Cannibal, This Fanclub is a Thief."

I'm only partially serious.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 18, 2011, 03:44:29 PM
"There's been a lot of talk about this next petition. Maybe too much talk."

Oh wait, that's a bit point-defeating.
I actually kind of like your first one exile. But i think really, the title needs to refer to u2.com and fan dissatisfaction explicitly.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on February 18, 2011, 07:42:41 PM
A take on a previously mentioned suggestion; This Fanclub is a Cannibal, U2.com is a Thief.

Think I noticed a typo in the letter; it appears to say that the Coldplay website has the Pearl Jam fanclub.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 18, 2011, 09:22:29 PM
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A take on a previously mentioned suggestion; This Fanclub is a Cannibal, U2.com is a Thief.

Think I noticed a typo in the letter; it appears to say that the Coldplay website has the Pearl Jam fanclub.

I like that one! How does everyone else feel?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: The Exile on February 18, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
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A take on a previously mentioned suggestion; This Fanclub is a Cannibal, U2.com is a Thief.

Think I noticed a typo in the letter; it appears to say that the Coldplay website has the Pearl Jam fanclub.

I like that one! How does everyone else feel?

I should get a byline since it was mostly my idea. It's all about me, you know.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Aqua on February 19, 2011, 01:53:52 AM
maybe include a link to the duals poll on the homepage?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: donnavox on February 19, 2011, 03:07:43 AM
well done.  thanks for speaking out for all of the diehards.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on February 19, 2011, 03:39:18 AM
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A take on a previously mentioned suggestion; This Fanclub is a Cannibal, U2.com is a Thief.

Think I noticed a typo in the letter; it appears to say that the Coldplay website has the Pearl Jam fanclub.

I think this would be a good title for the petition.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on February 19, 2011, 09:03:32 AM
I can't tell the difference between ABC news, Hill Street Blues and U2.com stealing money from the fans, new and the old.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JTBaby on February 19, 2011, 09:22:58 AM
all those fan club memberships just to get pre-sales which don't guarantee you anything add up to more than the premium you'd pay a broker.

just sayin'

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 20, 2011, 05:20:59 PM
turns out you can only have 50 characters.

how about

'The Fanclub is a Cannibal - make u2.com better'?

or

'The Fanclub is a Cannibal - u2.com, fans need more'

or

'The Fanclub is a Cannibal - u2.com not good enough'

feel free to keep adding suggestions, i do like "the fanclub is a cannibal start tho. unfortunately with the 50 character limit we wont be able to fit in a thank you to exile for providing this line. i think we need to have something in there thats a bit more informative about what its about hence all the different second parts ive tried (none of which i think are particularly wonderful).

and then for the url maybe just http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/u2fanclubpetition

thoughts? comments?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on February 20, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
I like either of the first two suggestions for a title.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 20, 2011, 07:04:43 PM
I like the third one the most, but i'd be happy with any of them  :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 20, 2011, 09:57:06 PM
ok well the next vote will decide it.

again sorry for over delegating this minor issue.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 20, 2011, 10:22:12 PM
We should involve females as well.

Personcott U2.com dammit
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 20, 2011, 10:42:04 PM
or we could just spell it buoycott
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 20, 2011, 11:11:18 PM
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or we could just spell it buoycott

In america that'd be a Boo-ee-cott
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 21, 2011, 03:19:30 AM
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or we could just spell it buoycott

In america that'd be a Boo-ee-cott

is that all americans? i just assumed it was the stupid ones who pronounce it that way (like it is here).
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 21, 2011, 08:32:11 AM
I think so. I was told "buoy" was pronounced boo-ee. I'm from the Midwest in the US... And I live by a major lake where the word is applicable on quite a few occasions. ;)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: InThisHeartland on February 21, 2011, 07:56:25 PM
ummmm how else would buoy be pronounced???? i guess im a dumb american lol.....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 21, 2011, 08:23:09 PM
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ummmm how else would buoy be pronounced???? i guess im a dumb american lol.....

check the previous posts, theres some good hints in there as to the other (some would say more correct) way its pronounced.

btw not saying americans are stupid for saying that way, you guys have lots of quirks in pronunciation as most countries probably do. if a country has collectively decided to change the pronuciation of a word then it would be stupid NOT to follow if you're from that country. wasnt aware that that had occurred in this case but seems like it has.

just saying australians who pronounce it boo eee are docked a few intelligence points (by me at least) as thats not how its said in our version of the language (and the original version of the language for the record) and they should know how to speak their own language. same as a friend of mine who pronounces peugeot as pew-gee-oh. never got around to correcting him on it and always makes me think he's a bit dumber everytime he does it.

if i get no more votes on the petition title i'll just pick one at random from those three tonight
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 22, 2011, 05:25:20 PM
ok so its up. have a read and let me know if theres any changes and if its working all right (like if the website looks like it'll spam you or anything) and then i'll put it up in its own thread.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/u2fanclubpetition

btw, was wondering how do americans pronounce buoyant?

Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 22, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
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ok so its up. have a read and let me know if theres any changes and if its working all right (like if the website looks like it'll spam you or anything) and then i'll put it up in its own thread.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/u2fanclubpetition

btw, was wondering how do americans pronounce buoyant?



Looks bloody good to me soapit. Ill be signing.

As for the pronunciation - I am English but live in the US, and have these little 'conversations' about word pronunciations all the time. Its funny.

The word above is pronounced 'BoyANT' here So, I know whats coming, why pronounce buoy -  'booee'. LMAO!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: InThisHeartland on February 22, 2011, 05:44:24 PM
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ok so its up. have a read and let me know if theres any changes and if its working all right (like if the website looks like it'll spam you or anything) and then i'll put it up in its own thread.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/u2fanclubpetition

btw, was wondering how do americans pronounce buoyant?



Looks bloody good to me soapit. Ill be signing.

As for the pronunciation - I am English but live in the US, and have these little 'conversations' about word pronunciations all the time. Its funny.

The word above is pronounced 'BoyANT' here So, I know whats coming, why pronounce buoy -  'booee'. LMAO!

wow, i never thought of it that way. english is stupid
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: An Cat Dubh on February 22, 2011, 05:46:41 PM
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ok so its up. have a read and let me know if theres any changes and if its working all right (like if the website looks like it'll spam you or anything) and then i'll put it up in its own thread.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/u2fanclubpetition

btw, was wondering how do americans pronounce buoyant?



Looks bloody good to me soapit. Ill be signing.

As for the pronunciation - I am English but live in the US, and have these little 'conversations' about word pronunciations all the time. Its funny.

The word above is pronounced 'BoyANT' here So, I know whats coming, why pronounce buoy -  'booee'. LMAO!

wow, i never thought of it that way. english is stupid

In this case, its the American pronunciation thats stupid!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on February 22, 2011, 05:55:57 PM
Great wording, great petition. Well done.

On the digression - a really interesting book on English/American is Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson. Check it out. Humourous and interesting.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 22, 2011, 06:57:10 PM
cheers guys, please direct any praise to gnmet as he wrote the whole thing (with a couple of very minor tweaks)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 22, 2011, 07:18:15 PM
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Great wording, great petition. Well done.

On the digression - a really interesting book on English/American is Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson. Check it out. Humourous and interesting.

I love Bill Bryson. He's brilliant.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: jenniferh aka jen on February 22, 2011, 09:13:51 PM
Are you posting a link to the petition on U2.com also? I'm sure lots of people over there would sign it too.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 22, 2011, 09:37:38 PM
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Are you posting a link to the petition on U2.com also? I'm sure lots of people over there would sign it too.

i've never posted on that forum or on any other u2 forum so if anyone's a member anywhere else (u2.com, interference) then it'd be a help if you could post it on those ones for us.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 24, 2011, 09:58:43 AM
Someone linked to the petition over at interference, and there seemed to be some support there.
What should the next step be?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Terrasidius on February 24, 2011, 11:26:56 AM
I support this! I mean look at Radioheads website, they maintain it themselves pretty much.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 24, 2011, 04:14:52 PM
planning to wait a few weeks (or however long) until the petition stops getting signed then forward to principle management.

we can think about our options after that depending what happens then.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on February 24, 2011, 04:22:14 PM
Thanks guys.  :)

We should also give props to Melicans Maltkin who wrote the first draft and got this going. I've never done one of these before so does anyone know how many signatures we should be aiming for?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 24, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
ha ha yes well i wasnt sure of that either and the online had a default setting of 50,000 so i just left it at that. currently we are about 48,850 short of the 'target'

i think just do it until we feel we've squeezed the last signature out so was thinking just wait until we're only getting 1 new signature a week or a day or something.

i dont think there's a huge rush to get it to them so we can leave it to grow for a while (like a month or so perhaps).
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 24, 2011, 05:39:58 PM
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ha ha yes well i wasnt sure of that either and the online had a default setting of 50,000 so i just left it at that. currently we are about 48,850 short of the 'target'

i think just do it until we feel we've squeezed the last signature out so was thinking just wait until we're only getting 1 new signature a week or a day or something.

i dont think there's a huge rush to get it to them so we can leave it to grow for a while (like a month or so perhaps).

Sounds good. In the meantime, we need to spread the word around every u2 fansite. I'll start, if you guys don't mind, by starting a new thread here specifically for the petition, then i'll try my luck on interference... then, the big challenge will be the u2.com forums, where we have to avoid being banned.   :-\
Everyones help in spreading the petition is appreciated  :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 24, 2011, 09:14:01 PM
I've just thought of a good idea: When we've collected enough signatures for the petition, we should bombard u2.com with them. I'm saying, instead of one person sending an email to live nation, we get every member we can on here to send multiple copies to as many addresses as possible, as well as flood the u2.com forums with it.

I believe the 'delivery' of the petition could be just as effective as how many people sign it!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on February 24, 2011, 09:32:42 PM
its prbably a discussion to have a bit later but i'm not sure i'm up for everyone spamming it to them repeatedly, at least at first. would prefer to go down the respectful request route first and see how it goes...but yeah we can discuss all that in the weeks to come.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 24, 2011, 09:47:39 PM
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its prbably a discussion to have a bit later but i'm not sure i'm up for everyone spamming it to them repeatedly, at least at first. would prefer to go down the respectful request route first and see how it goes...but yeah we can discuss all that in the weeks to come.

Yeah fair enough man... we'll discuss it in due course.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: p8ru2 on February 27, 2011, 10:58:37 AM
Great letter!  I couldn't agree more!  Erm.... Not many sigs yet....  Come on people! 
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on February 27, 2011, 11:01:01 AM
I just signed it. Sorry, I forgot!!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on February 27, 2011, 11:28:53 AM
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Great letter!  I couldn't agree more!  Erm.... Not many sigs yet....  Come on people! 

The problem is, a lot of the other u2 fan sites are pretty unimpressed about the whole idea. Either they think it's pointless, or they're flat out against it, so it's hard to drum up support :(
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 02, 2011, 01:11:05 PM
so someone claiming to be an admin at u2.com has PM'd me saying if i'd like to discuss the issues with the website then please contact him on xxx email address.

personally i don't really think i can add anything in a discussion beyond what is in the petition text, i think its pretty solid actually (again excellent work gnmet).

my instinct is to just politely say 'all our issues are listed clearly in the petition as well as potential improvements, i can't imagine being able to add any information through discussions. if you have any specific any questions i will do my best to answer'.

what do you guys think. i'm certainly not up for getting into some kind of negotiation on behalf of everyone. none of the stuff we've suggested is that complicated and its really their job to get into the nuts and bolts of it.

maybe i should just craft a response to him a show it here and see what yous think.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on March 02, 2011, 01:21:21 PM
A crafted response sounds good.  Things are pretty well laid out in the petition.  If he has specific questions, sure.  You can try to answer them, or run them by us before answering them.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on March 02, 2011, 01:28:40 PM
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so someone claiming to be an admin at u2.com has PM'd me saying if i'd like to discuss the issues with the website then please contact him on xxx email address.

personally i don't really think i can add anything in a discussion beyond what is in the petition text, i think its pretty solid actually (again excellent work gnmet).

my instinct is to just politely say 'all our issues are listed clearly in the petition as well as potential improvements, i can't imagine being able to add any information through discussions. if you have any specific any questions i will do my best to answer'.

what do you guys think. i'm certainly not up for getting into some kind of negotiation on behalf of everyone. none of the stuff we've suggested is that complicated and its really their job to get into the nuts and bolts of it.

maybe i should just craft a response to him a show it here and see what yous think.


I'd be happy to "negotiate" if they want to contact me; I think I did a decent job with the letter I wrote :P
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: The Exile on March 02, 2011, 01:29:13 PM
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so someone claiming to be an admin at u2.com has PM'd me saying if i'd like to discuss the issues with the website then please contact him on xxx email address.

personally i don't really think i can add anything in a discussion beyond what is in the petition text, i think its pretty solid actually (again excellent work gnmet).

my instinct is to just politely say 'all our issues are listed clearly in the petition as well as potential improvements, i can't imagine being able to add any information through discussions. if you have any specific any questions i will do my best to answer'.

what do you guys think. i'm certainly not up for getting into some kind of negotiation on behalf of everyone. none of the stuff we've suggested is that complicated and its really their job to get into the nuts and bolts of it.

maybe i should just craft a response to him a show it here and see what yous think.

My guess is that the mods over there want to avoid at all costs our discontent getting back to the band, but they probably have no power to effect the changes we want. I would be wary of any kind of parley that fails to address the root problems.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 02, 2011, 01:55:17 PM
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so someone claiming to be an admin at u2.com has PM'd me saying if i'd like to discuss the issues with the website then please contact him on xxx email address.

personally i don't really think i can add anything in a discussion beyond what is in the petition text, i think its pretty solid actually (again excellent work gnmet).

my instinct is to just politely say 'all our issues are listed clearly in the petition as well as potential improvements, i can't imagine being able to add any information through discussions. if you have any specific any questions i will do my best to answer'.

what do you guys think. i'm certainly not up for getting into some kind of negotiation on behalf of everyone. none of the stuff we've suggested is that complicated and its really their job to get into the nuts and bolts of it.

maybe i should just craft a response to him a show it here and see what yous think.

My guess is that the mods over there want to avoid at all costs our discontent getting back to the band, but they probably have no power to effect the changes we want. I would be wary of any kind of parley that fails to address the root problems.

Yeah, well pointed out - we shouldn't settle for a compromise if they're not even willing to let the band know about this. Soapit, i recommend you give MelicansMatkin the admins email, but i think it would be a good idea if everything this admin says from now on is posted here, so that everyone involved with this petition knows what the circumstances are, what can/can't/should be done etc, so we can make informed decisions.

Oh, and about the discontent not getting back to the band.going public:
http://www.spinner.com/2011/03/02/u2-fan-club/
 :D
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on March 02, 2011, 02:44:25 PM
I'd be willing to help in anyway as well, but I'm a bit suspicious of some random guy PMing you claiming to be an admin.  This kind of thing happens all the time on Xbox Live and usually ends in some sort of scam.

 But if they are legit then we should definitely try to contact them.  Our problems are pretty well put out in the petition, but talking to an admin can't hurt. I agree with Jamie about posting everything on here.  We wrote the petition essentially as a group, so we should also handle this development as a group.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 02, 2011, 03:24:04 PM
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so someone claiming to be an admin at u2.com has PM'd me saying if i'd like to discuss the issues with the website then please contact him on xxx email address.

personally i don't really think i can add anything in a discussion beyond what is in the petition text, i think its pretty solid actually (again excellent work gnmet).

my instinct is to just politely say 'all our issues are listed clearly in the petition as well as potential improvements, i can't imagine being able to add any information through discussions. if you have any specific any questions i will do my best to answer'.

what do you guys think. i'm certainly not up for getting into some kind of negotiation on behalf of everyone. none of the stuff we've suggested is that complicated and its really their job to get into the nuts and bolts of it.

maybe i should just craft a response to him a show it here and see what yous think.

My guess is that the mods over there want to avoid at all costs our discontent getting back to the band, but they probably have no power to effect the changes we want. I would be wary of any kind of parley that fails to address the root problems.

Yeah, well pointed out - we shouldn't settle for a compromise if they're not even willing to let the band know about this. Soapit, i recommend you give MelicansMatkin the admins email, but i think it would be a good idea if everything this admin says from now on is posted here, so that everyone involved with this petition knows what the circumstances are, what can/can't/should be done etc, so we can make informed decisions.

Oh, and about the discontent not getting back to the band.going public:
http://www.spinner.com/2011/03/02/u2-fan-club/
 :D

WOW!! That's awesome!!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 02, 2011, 03:27:30 PM
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I'd be willing to help in anyway as well, but I'm a bit suspicious of some random guy PMing you claiming to be an admin.  This kind of thing happens all the time on Xbox Live and usually ends in some sort of scam.

 But if they are legit then we should definitely try to contact them.  Our problems are pretty well put out in the petition, but talking to an admin can't hurt. I agree with Jamie about posting everything on here.  We wrote the petition essentially as a group, so we should also handle this development as a group.

Glad you agree!  :) I think we'll make the best decisions if they're collective, and this is a good opportunity to practice that.
I agree it's good to be wary of anyone contacting you online, but as long as he/she doesn't ask for something odd (bank details?  :D ), and we keep everything they say public, in this thread, then it should be fine, and it should become clear pretty quickly whether they're genuine or not.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 02, 2011, 04:06:16 PM
ok so i think i will say.

"hi,

I believe that our issues with U2.com are pretty clearly detailed in the petition along with suggested features that would improve the U2.com experience (with examples of features provided on behalf of other bands) so i suspect further discussion from us would just be reiterating what is contained in the petition text.

However if you were able to pass the text up the food chain at U2.com then that would be great and if you or anyone else would like any further information please PM me as i am happy to try and answer any questions you may have (with input from the others who contributed to organising this petition).

regards

Al

ps: as the email you have provided does not seem to come from a domain affiliated with U2 can you please provide some evidence that you are in fact an admin for U2.com as you claim to be and not a spammer. i am a member of U2.com also with this same username so maybe you could PM me over there from your admin account"


whaddyas think?

i wouldn't get too excited as looking at his email it's from an @me address so seems a bit dodgy but we will see. i'm going to PM only i think. don't want someone dodgy getting my email. dont think there's anything that could go wrong with letting them know i'm also a memember over at u2.com with the same UN

i will definitely post anything i get back on here and wont respond to anything without input from you guys. i dont think we should get involved in negotiating really though. we've made our case clearly and its up to them to sort it out. i dont necessarily expect them to do everything but we shouldnt be the ones to pick and choose which is more important from the list. it's not a debate after all.

edit: so i checked this guys username over at u2.com and he does seem to be some kind of admin so maybe it is legit. we will see anyway
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 02, 2011, 04:37:42 PM
soapit, that draft is fine with me if it is with everyone else!
I look forward to hearing what this admin says next  :)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 02, 2011, 04:40:52 PM
yeah wouldnt mind taking it slow for now as well while the signatures are still coming through fairly strongly
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 02, 2011, 04:44:25 PM
Yeah, i'm really happy about the sudden surge in signatures. It's good to know that we're getting attention now, and we haven't even gotten to the 'final stage' yet (which was to send the petition to u2.com, livenation etc).
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on March 02, 2011, 04:49:26 PM
Well U2.com knows of it; no doubt they will be keeping a close eye on the number of signatures!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 02, 2011, 04:58:20 PM
yeah it was funny my hopes for the numbers kept going down, i at first thought who knows we may get 5000, then i thought oh well 1000's a pretty good number, then after a few days i thought oh well 500's alright, then i thought well 300's still a fair few people, just being all optimistic.

pretty glad its gotten over the thousand mark though (or will very shortly)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on March 02, 2011, 05:10:18 PM
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soapit, that draft is fine with me if it is with everyone else!
I look forward to hearing what this admin says next  :)

Yeah, that draft is fine with me as well.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on March 02, 2011, 05:26:57 PM
The draft is fine with me as too.  Great that the petition is getting commented by others now and that it is almost has 1000 signatures.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 02, 2011, 06:09:15 PM
I'm good with this too. And I think that it's a good sign that I started to see it get passed around in FB.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on March 02, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Just 3 signatures short of breaking 1000.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 02, 2011, 06:17:39 PM
I wonder what the total membership is for u2.com...
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on March 02, 2011, 07:44:04 PM
I'm good too and these numbers are pretty impressive, its now at 1010.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: briscoetheque on March 02, 2011, 07:46:36 PM
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I'm good too and these numbers are pretty impressive, its now at 1010.

Damn. That's only 10 binary people.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 02, 2011, 08:22:33 PM
so i sent the response. i'll let yous know as soon as i hear anything.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: bigwave on March 03, 2011, 10:48:40 AM
Hi all,

just a short note to say the issues you raise in your petition have been addressed in an update posted just now on the U2.com forums, by the U2comTeam :

http://community.u2.com/topic/21631

best wishes

Bigwave (U2.com Community Pages admin & moderator).
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 03, 2011, 11:05:14 AM
I think they made this a no reply thread. I tried to nicely reply that Cape Town was great except that it was already being broadcast by a South African station. If the site provided this kind of service more often when other places werent already doing it, that would definitely be a value added service that I think all of us would appreciate and feel worth our money. ALSO, I like the idea of having access to live recordings of shows I'd attended....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Droo on March 03, 2011, 11:09:33 AM
You don't need to follow U2 continuously to have access to the album tracks. I can walk to HMV and buy Zooropa with The Wanderer on it today. It is the inclusion of the album tracks that has us most infuriated.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on March 03, 2011, 11:22:00 AM
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You don't need to follow U2 continuously to have access to the album tracks. I can walk to HMV and buy Zooropa with The Wanderer on it today. It is the inclusion of the album tracks that has us most infuriated.

iTunes as well, if you can subscribe to U2.com you can probably use iTunes.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 11:35:21 AM
thanks for the news bigwave, i've posted a link on the main petition thread. i also responded personally ie not on behalf of everyone, there as follows

"thats good news mel. additionally they have posted a comment here. http://community.u2.com/topic/21631 which makes a couple of minor quibbles to the content of the petition (in contradiction to our unscientifically collected anecdotal evidence) but the tone is generally positive and sounds promising.

they are also make a slight attempt at defending duals based on 1. people putting alot of work into it, 2. in their words "And it's fair to say that if you've been following the band continually since the very early days, you might have collected these tracks, but for everyone else, there's some great music here"

my thoughts on this
1. its always hard receiving negative feedback to your work but it can help you in the long run and i think its fair to say they didnt have had to work as hard as they would have if they didnt stick all those already released tracks on there
2., do they really expect a u2.com subsrcriber to not own most of the albums, even ones released prior to them becoming a fan, and significant proportion of itunes released tracks?  this seems a little naive actually especially in this day and age of easy access to music?

but yes the tone was pretty good in the post so i am mildly hopeful to see what happens. however we must keep in mind that nothing has actually changed yet so we should continue on with the petition and forward to the top level management when we are ready, just as we were before"


just my personal thoughts
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on March 03, 2011, 11:49:23 AM
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thanks for the news bigwave, i've posted a link on the main petition thread. i also responded personally ie not on behalf of everyone, there as follows

"thats good news mel. additionally they have posted a comment here. http://community.u2.com/topic/21631 which makes a couple of minor quibbles to the content of the petition (in contradiction to our unscientifically collected anecdotal evidence) but the tone is generally positive and sounds promising.

they are also make a slight attempt at defending duals based on 1. people putting alot of work into it, 2. in their words "And it's fair to say that if you've been following the band continually since the very early days, you might have collected these tracks, but for everyone else, there's some great music here"

my thoughts on this
1. its always hard receiving negative feedback to your work but it can help you in the long run and i think its fair to say they didnt have had to work as hard as they would have if they didnt stick all those already released tracks on there
2., do they really expect a u2.com subsrcriber to not own most of the albums, even ones released prior to them becoming a fan, and significant proportion of itunes released tracks?  this seems a little naive actually especially in this day and age of easy access to music?

but yes the tone was pretty good in the post so i am mildly hopeful to see what happens. however we must keep in mind that nothing has actually changed yet so we should continue on with the petition and forward to the top level management when we are ready, just as we were before"


just my personal thoughts

I'm happy that they replied and I'm mildly hopeful as well.  However no has committed to doing anything and I too was a bit surprised about Duals.  It's almost as if they pretend iTunes doesn't exist.  I'm sure it took some effort to convince artists to let their duets go on the cd, but at the end of the day that's just an excuse for a bad product. 

Also, out of the six issues that were raised, only three were mentioned.  Our concerns about more exclusive content seem to have gone over their heads.  The South Africa broadcast was good, but the fact of the matter is you didn't need to be a subscriber to pick that up from the radio.  Our big issue was that there needs to be more value for our money.  I hope that they address this in the future.

Once everyone has had a chance to digest this, perhaps we send back a response on behalf of those who wrote it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 12:10:12 PM
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Once everyone has had a chance to digest this, perhaps we send back a response on behalf of those who wrote it.
maybe but i think we should avoid getting into a debate with them. the petition text is about as clear and as solid as it can be i reckon so going into it further with unstructured responses would only weaken it.

at this point i would suggst nothing more than 'we appreciate your positive tone in response to the petition and look forawrd to seeing what changes are in store. however until such time as something concrete actually happens we will continue with the petition' or something like that.

extra words always gives the other side more wiggle room and weakens ur point so keep it concise and on track for mine. like when ur buying a car always say little and wait for them to make the tough call.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Droo on March 03, 2011, 12:33:20 PM
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Once everyone has had a chance to digest this, perhaps we send back a response on behalf of those who wrote it.
maybe but i think we should avoid getting into a debate with them. the petition text is about as clear and as solid as it can be i reckon so going into it further with unstructured responses would only weaken it.

at this point i would suggst nothing more than 'we appreciate your positive tone in response to the petition and look forawrd to seeing what changes are in store. however until such time as something concrete actually happens we will continue with the petition' or something like that.

extra words always gives the other side more wiggle room and weakens ur point so keep it concise and on track for mine. like when ur buying a car always say little and wait for them to make the tough call.

This is a good strategy.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 03, 2011, 12:46:45 PM
This response from the admin on u2.com is good progress, but i think it's very important not to perceive their post acknowledging our grievances as any kind of 'success'. It's very courteous, and that is to be appreciated, but it does seem to side step the issue, the two most obvious problems being:

1) Excusing 'Duals' because "Hard work went into it" (which is, like it or not, irrelevant as it was promised to be an exclusive CD for hardcore fans who have everything, and that wasn't the case), and:
2) Side stepping the fact that other fan sites offer things like official bootlegs of shows, competitions/exclusive giveaways etc.... basically more bang for your buck.

Until they promise to make some changes (as in, give us more value for our money), we need it to be known to them that we are continuing with the petition.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Northern Star on March 03, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
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Once everyone has had a chance to digest this, perhaps we send back a response on behalf of those who wrote it.
maybe but i think we should avoid getting into a debate with them. the petition text is about as clear and as solid as it can be i reckon so going into it further with unstructured responses would only weaken it.

at this point i would suggst nothing more than 'we appreciate your positive tone in response to the petition and look forawrd to seeing what changes are in store. however until such time as something concrete actually happens we will continue with the petition' or something like that.

extra words always gives the other side more wiggle room and weakens ur point so keep it concise and on track for mine. like when ur buying a car always say little and wait for them to make the tough call.
Well said, and true, the petition said it all very eloquently.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 05:53:43 PM
guys are we happy to say

'we appreciate your respectful and generally positive tone in response to the petition and look forward to seeing any changes that are in store. however until such time as something concrete actually happens the petition will be continuing as before'.

theres just some threads up there already about their response and people are getting a bit shirty so it'd be good to send u2.com something a bit considered that we agree on.

also are we agreed that in the first instance we were going to send the petition to principle management and the band (if we can get it to them).

there's just a bit of talk about moving to phase 2 but i think thats a bit premature as phase 1 isnt really over yet. we didnt really expect u2.com to just flip over and sort it out themselves.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: streetmission on March 03, 2011, 05:56:19 PM
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guys are we happy to say

'we appreciate your respectful and generally positive tone in response to the petition and look forward to seeing any changes that are in store. however until such time as something concrete actually happens the petition will be continuing as before'.

theres just some threads up there already about their response and people are getting a bit shirty so it'd be good to send u2.com something a bit considered that we agree on.

That's a respectful, but firm, response.  I like it.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
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respectful, but firm

thats me all over ha ha
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 03, 2011, 06:03:50 PM
Soapit, that sounds like the perfect response - polite, but firm in our position to continue protesting until we get results. Maybe add a final line of "Acknowledgement is great. But what we want are results."
Oh, and I agree with what you said a few days ago, that we should wait for the petition to grow in signatures for a while before we move on to the next step.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 03, 2011, 06:34:35 PM
It occurs to me that we might actually need to work harder now that this statement has come out.
It pretty much only states that our complaints have been noted, without promising any changes, so it's not what we were aiming for. Worse, is that many people might be willing to stop here, to assume that u2.com is really going to change, or that there's simply no point in continuing further.
So we're gonna have to step up our game!

We need to make it very clear to whoever contacted us that we are not satisfied at just being acknowledged.
We need to, when the time is right, send the petition en masse to u2.com, to livenation, to u2's facebook etc - really get this thing known!
Furthermore, in the news and rumours section, Jono has brought up the idea of the boycott again, and as an actual paid member of u2.com, he's got some weight to that idea. I've asked him to post in this thread if he wants to pursue it seriously, fingers crossed he drops by!  :) (otherwise, it's no problem - obviously we aren't forcing people to protest with us.)
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Jono on March 03, 2011, 06:35:41 PM
After reading it again, it was rather insulting...

So, why don't we all just cancel?
I've been a member since day 1, but my March renewal has not been paid and it may not be...

It's easy to see there is plenty of information out here on the web about our beloved U2, especially with our fav's like @U2. So, even with an 'official word' web site we still would go searching EVERYWHERE. The only advantage is the presale for me...and perhaps if they streamed ALL live shows-
And as far as the presale, even that wasn't always easy as we all know-

I was so hoping for a better repsonse from them, this was pretty much an insult as mentioned-
Didn't Adam's bro Sebastian Clayton originally set up their web-site? Let's tweet the boy!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 03, 2011, 06:41:50 PM
Thanks Jono  8)

So, what does everyone think of the idea of a boycott?
Is it a good idea to start planning it now?
Or should it be 'the nuclear option'?
And how would it be organised?
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Starman on March 03, 2011, 06:44:04 PM
I actually emailed the Pittsburgh Post Gazette this story. I doubt they'll report it, but I gave it a shot.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 03, 2011, 06:46:55 PM
I do think they need to see numbers (ie, $$ to them) so that they know we're serious.... And really we need more signatures. I dont know what we're up to by now but I'm sure it's still piddly compared to how many people are paid members of U2.com.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 06:52:52 PM
yeah i'm keen for a boycott. keep me posted. just maybe be clear about what we're talking about when we post in this thread as we've got a couple of things going on in here now.

i think we need to chill a bit with the pace of it. it's not going to happen too quickly (and never was) considering all the people they'd have to get to sign off on a big overhaul. a few months (1-3) would be when i'd be expecting to start to see some actual change  (note we are a week in already now though). keep the pressure on tho by all means, just dont be to outraged when they havent fixed it all yet.

just be aware as well we should avoid giving conditions to them like "we'll be happy if you just do x and y etc" (that negotiation i was saying we should avoid earlier) as then they transfer the reponsibility for pleasing everyone onto us and we dont get paid for that responsibility.

btw actually i'm fairly pleased where the numbers are at. there are some pretty big petitions going around on national issues in the uk that i heard about this morning and they only had 50-100 thousand sigs. still the more the better obviously
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 03, 2011, 06:56:39 PM
Good call... all of you  :)
I agree soapit, it will take quite a while for results to be seen. That means we have to keep the pressure on, and perhaps step up the protest (e.g. with a boycott) if the admins start ignoring us.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on March 03, 2011, 08:47:29 PM
I'm cautiously optimistic. I think the posting by atu2 and Spinner subsequently picking up the story, leading to the massive burst in signatures, probably spurred this response. U2.com is almost certainly monitoring all of the discussions; both in Zootopia, and over here. They know that the fans are serious in their displeasure this time around, and so I think that they will really be working at it this time. I hope they will anyways. Spinner is relatively small; if Rolling Stone, or NME, or any other similarly sized music news organization picked it up, it would be disastrous for them. They'll be doing whatever it takes to avoid that, hencwe I think the reason for the sudden response after it appeared that none would be forthcoming.

Now to see if action actually happens, or if it is just empty promises. I have my hopes, but they have been dashed before. U2.com, please don't let us down.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: gnmmet on March 03, 2011, 08:53:34 PM
I agree with soapit's message.  We definitely should not be getting into a debate, yet they should know that a writing a nice message and then doing nothing simply doesn't cut it.

With a boycott I'm a little apprehensive.  I think the numbers on the petition are good enough to show we're serious; a boycott was something that didn't go down too well on the other sites. What worked here was that for the most part we had numbers backing up our words.  I don't know if a boycott gets us the numbers we need, more press coverage would probably be most effective.  U2.com didn't respond until that Spinner article showed up.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MelicansMatkin on March 03, 2011, 09:13:49 PM
I tried Alan Cross of ExploreMusic a few times via Twitter, but he never responded. Somebody else might have more luck with that than me.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 03, 2011, 09:22:37 PM
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With a boycott I'm a little apprehensive.  I think the numbers on the petition are good enough to show we're serious; a boycott was something that didn't go down too well on the other sites. What worked here was that for the most part we had numbers backing up our words.  I don't know if a boycott gets us the numbers we need, more press coverage would probably be most effective.  U2.com didn't respond until that Spinner article showed up.

i don't really mind. i'm not renewing regardless so whether its as an individual or i put my name to something to let them specifically know its a result of something specific. not keen to organise anything for it myself (as i think the petition is the best way to go ) but i'd sign a boycott i'd say.

i think you'd probably get lower numbers than for the petition as well (signing the petition was easier and didnt really require much of a decision/sacrifice).
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 04, 2011, 11:49:45 AM
Yeah, the easy thing about getting support for the petition is that it takes a few seconds to sign. Boycotting is a much bigger commitment, and gives the people against the protests ammunition (They think it's hypocritical).
So the real focus should be the petition, although i'm all for a boycott if it can be done.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 04, 2011, 11:50:53 AM
I am not planning to renew if things dont change, so boycotting would be no skin off my back either.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 04, 2011, 12:39:03 PM
Good to hear MarsGirl!  :)

By the way, over on interference, on page 4 of the petition thread, user Galeongirl has very kindly posted a very comprehensive and impressive list of 'u2.com fails'.
http://u2.interference.com/f189/petition-against-u2-com-209776-4.html#post7142609

It looks like it could be very helpful for the cause, and i'm delighted to see so many members at interference joining in with this protest!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: soapit on March 08, 2011, 03:45:02 PM
hi guys,

so u2.com has posted '50 videos from australia'

has anyone seen them? are they any good? i hope this isnt the only change that is coming like 'chuck a few videos up and that'll fix it'.

i think maybe at the start of next week we should forward to principle management, we're still geting signature but they are slowing a little and we can always leave it up after we've sent the letter. there seems to be some momentum and dont want it to slow too much.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: zooey on March 08, 2011, 04:01:01 PM
I just let my subscription lapse, but not out of malice or feeling robbed or anything.  I only pay for the membership when there's confirmed rumors of a new album/tour.
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Manos73 on March 09, 2011, 02:05:55 PM
I love this post up on U2.com:

Now Playing - U2 DUALS - Three Advanced Clips:

Where the Streets Have No Name - U2 and Soweto Gospel Choir
Slow Dancing U2 and Willie Nelson
I'm Not Your Baby - U2 and Sinead O'Connor

Are there members out there that don't own these tracks yet?  U2.com just released the first one for download a few months ago!
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: MarsGirl on March 09, 2011, 02:57:39 PM
I dont think I have the last one... :o But I havent gotten through these disks I got from another U2 fan that was supposed to cover all my non-album gaps....
Title: Re: Boycott of u2.com
Post by: Voxare on March 09, 2011, 03:32:49 PM
I don't have the last one either! Must do some searching tonight :)