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U2 => Tours => Topic started by: U2-obsessed and proud on March 29, 2011, 01:28:26 PM

Title: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: U2-obsessed and proud on March 29, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
I know this question has been debated (UC and TD *cough*  :D ) around the forum a bunch since the summer, so I was just wondering what everyone thinks.

I say yes, it clearly is
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: ABloodRedSky on March 29, 2011, 01:32:41 PM
...Yes. I would have thought that was obvious? It's short, yes, but other U2 songs are short too!
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: ryanm on March 29, 2011, 01:35:59 PM
Yes, it's a phenomenal intro song that would be a great first track to a new album.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 29, 2011, 01:41:20 PM
Well, it's not a 'song' because in music, a song is a composition for voice or voices, performed by *singing*.

 

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 29, 2011, 04:10:12 PM
I was standing six feet from the Edge when he played it for the first ever time; it's a song, and there's really no reason whatsoever to believe that it isn't which doesn't also rule out lots of other U2 songs like MLK or 4th of July etc. Plus of course, it's been dubbed a song by U2.com, u2gigs, Rolling Stone, Q... among others. And as I've noted on multiple times, it's quite significant to me that almost everyone who claims that it isn't a song... is someone who hasn't actually seen it live.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 29, 2011, 04:17:52 PM
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I was standing six feet from the Edge when he played it for the first ever time; it's a song, and there's really no reason whatsoever to believe that it isn't which doesn't also rule out lots of other U2 songs like MLK or 4th of July etc. Plus of course, it's been dubbed a song by U2.com, u2gigs, Rolling Stone, Q... among others. And as I've noted on multiple times, it's quite significant to me that almost everyone who claims that it isn't a song... is someone who hasn't actually seen it live.

It doesn't really matter how many times you bang your fists down on the table and say "it's a song", it isn't going to make it so.

Neither does the fact that you were standing only 6 feet away from The Edge when he played it.

It is technically not a song.  It's a short instrumental piece, just like 4th of July.

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 29, 2011, 04:22:18 PM
It is a recording of a piece of music by U2 which is as much a track as any other. True, it is not a 'song' in the classical sense of something with lyrics, however that definition has evolved in popular culture so that instrumental pieces are now very widely considered to be songs. Hence not many people besides yourself are going to claim that 4th of July isn't a song, and likewise, that Stingray isn't. In very strict definitional sense- but it may as well be for all practical intents and purposes.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 29, 2011, 04:28:50 PM
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It is a recording of a piece of music by U2 which is as much a track as any other. True, it is not a 'song' in the classical sense of something with lyrics, however that definition has evolved in popular culture so that instrumental pieces are now very widely considered to be songs. Hence not many people besides yourself are going to claim that 4th of July isn't a song, and likewise, that Stingray isn't. In very strict definitional sense- but it may as well be for all practical intents and purposes.

4th of July isn't a song, either.  It's an instrumental track on The Unforgettable fire.

MLK, on the other hand, is a song.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Midnight is Where the Day Begins on March 29, 2011, 04:47:28 PM
I will call it a song, but an incomplete song.

It's basically a riff, with small parts that the playing changes.

Nonetheless, it's a song.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Starman on March 29, 2011, 05:44:50 PM
I say yes, although instrumental track probably is the more correct term (just because Bono yells annoying things into the microphone in it doesn't mean it has lyrics  ;)).
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Grave on March 29, 2011, 05:51:30 PM
Yes............and It is a good one  ;)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: SuperAcrobat on March 29, 2011, 05:53:01 PM
It is a song :) and only U2 could write it and play it as the opening song to their concerts. any other band writes it and it completely sucks :D
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Miami66 on March 29, 2011, 07:20:39 PM
Yeah....duh.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Bads316 on March 30, 2011, 07:47:08 AM
Of course it isn't, it's a bloody instrumental.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 30, 2011, 09:00:25 AM
It seems very much like a work in progress, almost like a live jam session, but something that needs work - mainly vocals - to be complete, so i'm not very inclined to define it as a 'song'.
I think 'live instrumental', 'tune' or 'track' works for me... i find it hard to define something as a song unless someone is, well, singing in it :D (i think dictionaries say that songs are tunes made for singing, so no voice = not a song)
 If they had released a studio version (which now seems unlikely) with even the most basic vocals, then i'd call it a song.

It's funny, Stingray debuted out of nowhere when u2 made their triumphant return to the stage after Bono's back injury. It re-defined the opening of the 360 show, and accompanied the gigs in which they debuted new songs, and started working on albums. The band seemed to really embrace being a band again, throwing caution to the wind, giving the fans treats, bringing out new material without caring what the repurcussions would be - as bono said during one of these gigs: "It's saturday night! What are you gonna do? Experiment on yerselves!"  8)

Then, when they stopped using it, the shows became more 'greatest hits'-esque, and they dropped plans for a new, impulsive album. By 2011, they had lost that fire.

It's almost like stingray is the soundtrack to that small period in 2010 when U2 became badass again.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: LoveSupreme on March 30, 2011, 09:14:08 AM
I agree with TD & Bad. 

It just got really really cold in here. 











Satan just skied by in a parka.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Droo on March 30, 2011, 09:15:09 AM
Of course it's a song. Were Beethoven and Mozart writing songs? Yes. Lyrics and vocals aren't required to make a "song". Stingray is a song, as are all their other instrumentals such as the majestic Bass Trap, Endless Deep, 4th of July, Yoshino Blossom, and Sixty Seconds In Kingdom Come.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Bads316 on March 30, 2011, 09:26:32 AM
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Of course it's a song. Were Beethoven and Mozart writing songs? Yes. Lyrics and vocals aren't required to make a "song". Stingray is a song, as are all their other instrumentals such as the majestic Bass Trap, Endless Deep, 4th of July, Yoshino Blossom, and Sixty Seconds In Kingdom Come.

No they weren't they were writing works, pieces of music, movements and symphonies.

Lyrics and vocals are required to make a song, that is what a song is - you don't whistle a song, you don't hum a song.

None of those are songs.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 09:32:29 AM
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I agree with TD & Bad. 

It just got really really cold in here. 











Satan just skied by in a parka.

What the hell are you suggesting?

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Bads316 on March 30, 2011, 09:34:00 AM
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I agree with TD & Bad. 

It just got really really cold in here. 











Satan just skied by in a parka.

What the hell are you suggesting?



:D
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Droo on March 30, 2011, 09:37:20 AM
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Of course it's a song. Were Beethoven and Mozart writing songs? Yes. Lyrics and vocals aren't required to make a "song". Stingray is a song, as are all their other instrumentals such as the majestic Bass Trap, Endless Deep, 4th of July, Yoshino Blossom, and Sixty Seconds In Kingdom Come.

No they weren't they were writing works, pieces of music, movements and symphonies.

Lyrics and vocals are required to make a song, that is what a song is - you don't whistle a song, you don't hum a song.

None of those are songs.

My mistake. I looked it up and apparently the actual definition of a "song" is indeed lyrics. Colour me surprised!
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Miami66 on March 30, 2011, 11:18:21 AM
Well I classify a song as any piece of music. So imo Return of the Stingray is indeed a song.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 11:47:23 AM
Again, I think the actual strict definition of a 'song' is an obsolete one which has long since been replaced by the popular concept of a song as a piece of music, including instrumentals.

To repeat what I said before, for all practical intents and purposes rather than as a matter of precise distinction, Return of the Stingray Guitar is a song, as are other instrumentals. Or, if you prefer, it is a 'track' which when played live should be listed as the first track they play live with Beautiful Day second.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Bads316 on March 30, 2011, 01:21:21 PM
Defying the dictionary! What a bunch of rebels :D
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: JamietheEdgefan on March 30, 2011, 01:56:34 PM
I think what we can all agree on is that ROtSG kicks a whole lot of ass, and will be sorely missed if they don't bring it back
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Droo on March 30, 2011, 01:58:13 PM
I still sount Stingray as a "song" for the purposes of u2Gigs and official setlists, though. It's a discrete, separate musical performance.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Bads316 on March 30, 2011, 02:18:23 PM
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I think what we can all agree on is that ROtSG kicks a whole lot of ass, and will be sorely missed if they don't bring it back

actually we cant  :D
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 02:31:44 PM
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I think what we can all agree on is that ROtSG kicks a whole lot of ass, and will be sorely missed if they don't bring it back

actually we cant  :D

Yup, 9/25 people on this forum want to see the back of it.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 03:05:35 PM
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I still sount Stingray as a "song" for the purposes of u2Gigs and official setlists, though. It's a discrete, separate musical performance.

Agreed.

Quote
Yup, 9/25 people on this forum want to see the back of it.

 ??? This thread is just about if people consider it a song. You made the thread on whether people back and only 5 don't want it back so far!  :D
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 03:11:16 PM
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Quote
Yup, 9/25 people on this forum want to see the back of it.

 ??? This thread is just about if people consider it a song. You made the thread on whether people back and only 5 don't want it back so far!  :D

You're absolutely correct.  My mistake.

I wish I was as infallible as you.  ;)


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 03:21:53 PM
And I wish I had the same powers of condescension as yourself, but sadly, in the words of a band we both like other than this one (Though where your knowledge vastly outstrips my own!), you can't always get what you want. ;)

At any rate, I don't think Stingray will be appearing on any album or EP in the future- which is a pity, as I think it should. I'm still surprised it didn't get a release on 'Wide Awake in Europe' - I think it'll always be synonymous with that leg of 360, and since its unlikely to get another release, that would have seemed perfect for it.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
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And I wish I had the same powers of condescension as yourself

If only you had the same capacity for self-awareness as me.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 03:38:49 PM
I dont want to sound antagonistic here, but isn't a song 'sung'. You need words to sing a song.  :-\
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Midnight is Where the Day Begins on March 30, 2011, 03:44:06 PM
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I dont want to sound antagonistic here, but isn't a song 'sung'. You need words to sing a song.  :-\

Actions speak louder than words.  ;)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 03:44:40 PM
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I dont want to sound antagonistic here, but isn't a song 'sung'. You need words to sing a song.  :-\

Indeed it is so.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 03:46:42 PM
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I dont want to sound antagonistic here, but isn't a song 'sung'. You need words to sing a song.  :-\

Actions speak louder than words.  ;)

We've learnt that the hard way from U2

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: ciaz on March 30, 2011, 04:17:39 PM
Definition of 'song':

–noun
1.
a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing,  especially one in rhymed stanzas; a lyric; a ballad.
2.
a musical piece adapted for singing  or simulating a piece to be sung: Mendelssohn's “Songs without Words.”
3.
poetical composition; poetry.
4.
the art or act of singing;  vocal music.
5.
something that is sung.
6.
an elaborate vocal signal produced by an animal, as the distinctive sounds produced by certain birds, frogs, etc., in a courtship or territorial display.


I'm sorry, TUC, I usually agree with a lot of what you say. But here, by definition, you are incorrect.

It is not a song. It is an instrumental track. Just like 4th of July.

... although I did accidentally vote 'song' by accident. Clicked the wrong button didn't I. D'oh.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 04:24:12 PM
But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense but more if you can consider it a 'track' - as in, you can say that U2 open their shows with 'Return of the Stingray Guitar' rather than Beautiful Day. That's what this debate really seems to be around.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: ciaz on March 30, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah I reckon it is a totally independent track. Not just an introduction.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 04:32:02 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

I agree.  It's been shown on this thread that 'Stingray' is not a 'song' in any technical sense of the word.

Quote
but more if you can consider it a 'track' - as in, you can say that U2 open their shows with 'Return of the Stingray Guitar' rather than Beautiful Day. That's what this debate really seems to be around.

I think one can say that U2 open (or perhaps I should say, opened) the 360 show with 'Stingray' insofar as one can say that U2 opened the PopMart show with a remix of PopMuzik. (with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: U2-obsessed and proud on March 30, 2011, 04:35:32 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 04:40:15 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 04:44:27 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.



Not a U2 song.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 04:48:39 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.



As the first 'track' they play, as their opening piece of music.

In other words, completely different from PopMuzik.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: U2-obsessed and proud on March 30, 2011, 04:49:34 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.



Not a U2 song.

It is an original composition of music made by U2, hence it is a U2 song/track whatever you wanna call it
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 04:51:56 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.



Not a U2 song.

It is an original composition of music made by U2, hence it is a U2 song/track whatever you wanna call it

It is an original composition of instrumental music made by U2, not a song, that they play live as they take the stage.  ;)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 04:54:13 PM
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But I think the debate though isn't really about whether it's a 'song' in the technical sense

(with the difference being that U2 are actually playing Stingray, live).

  

Which means U2 open their show with Stingray

Yes; as an introductory instrumental.



As the first 'track' they play, as their opening piece of music.

It's the first piece of music that U2 play, yes.

Track #1 on the official PopMart DVD - Live from Mexico City, is listed as Pop Muzik.

Quote
In other words, completely different from PopMuzik.

So not completely different.

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 04:57:23 PM
Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik and this poll pretty clearly indicates, however it may be phrased, that a majority of people would say that they do 'open' 360 with Stingray. :)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 05:00:53 PM
The thread title asks if you think Stingray is a U2 song, not whether they are playing a song, or instrumental, or anything.

My posts all answer the thread - Stingray is NOT a song, it has no words.

Yes it is a U2 instrumental composition, and yes they play it, but that is not what the thread asks.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 05:02:44 PM
But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 05:07:42 PM
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But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.

People are voting wrong then.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 05:10:48 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

Well, to answer that question we will have to hear from people who attended those shows.  And for completeness, the same people should have attended a 360 show where Stingray was played in order to make the comparison.

If certain people say in a rather condescending way that one had to be at a show when Stingray was played to really know whether it was the *opener* or not, then presumably one would have to have been at a PopMart show to really know whether they considered Pop Muzik to be the opener, or Mofo.
 
For all intents and purposes Pop Muzik served the same purpose as Stingray in that it allowed Bono to prance around the stage uttering words such as "Mowfoe".

Some people might say that after the Pop Muzik intro U2 got down to business with Mofo, in much the same way as some people might say that U2 got down to business with Beautiful Day after the Stingray intro.

Quote
and this poll pretty clearly indicates, however it may be phrased, that a majority of people would say that they do 'open' 360 with Stingray. :)

This poll doesn't ask that question.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 05:16:59 PM
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If certain people say in a rather condescending way that one had to be at a show when Stingray was played to really know whether it was the *opener* or not

Lemme stop you right there and point out that I've never done that.

I have now saved you the trouble of needing to have written the rest of that post.  ;)
 
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 05:23:57 PM
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If certain people say in a rather condescending way that one had to be at a show when Stingray was played to really know whether it was the *opener* or not

Lemme stop you right there and point out that I've never done that.
 

You've done that numerous times on this forum in what I feel is a rather condescending way.  It's just that you're not even aware that you're doing it.



Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 05:48:42 PM
No, what I have said is that I think it's notable that the majority of people saying it shouldn't count had not seen it live, and the majority of people who saw it live seemed to think it should count. That's really not the same thing. I apologise if you found this condescending at any stage- genuinely.

Of course, I was wrong and I retract that- it looks like a majority of *everyone* thinks it counts.  :)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: U2-obsessed and proud on March 30, 2011, 05:52:57 PM
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But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.

The poll was aimed at whether Stingray is a song or not.  It is an undeniable fact that it is the opening track on the 360 Tour, so that wasnt what I was asking. 

I'm with you TUC, I agree that, while the strict definition of "song" includes vocals, Stingray is a song.  I think the word "song" has been used more loosely today to incorporate instrumentals and the old definition is obsolete
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 06:03:35 PM
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But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.

The poll was aimed at whether Stingray is a song or not.  It is an undeniable fact that it is the opening track on the 360 Tour, so that wasnt what I was asking. 

I'm with you TUC, I agree that, while the strict definition of "song" includes vocals, Stingray is a song.  I think the word "song" has been used more loosely today to incorporate instrumentals and the old definition is obsolete


 ::)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 06:07:09 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

And you would KNOW this how?


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 06:09:22 PM
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But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.

The poll was aimed at whether Stingray is a song or not.  It is an undeniable fact that it is the opening track on the 360 Tour, so that wasnt what I was asking. 

I'm with you TUC, I agree that, while the strict definition of "song" includes vocals, Stingray is a song.  I think the word "song" has been used more loosely today to incorporate instrumentals and the old definition is obsolete

It's like arguing black is white.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 06:14:49 PM
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But again, I think we're getting caught up in technical distinctions when what Soapy means- and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, OAP- is a question about whether it's just an 'intro' before Beautiful Day or an actual fully fledged track which opens the 360 Tour. That, I assume based on what's been said, is how most people are voting.

The poll was aimed at whether Stingray is a song or not.  It is an undeniable fact that it is the opening track on the 360 Tour, so that wasnt what I was asking. 

I'm with you TUC, I agree that, while the strict definition of "song" includes vocals, Stingray is a song.  I think the word "song" has been used more loosely today to incorporate instrumentals and the old definition is obsolete

It's like arguing black is white.




And its pointless trying to argue with them. We have even been told that even though by definition it is not a song, Stingray is a song.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 06:26:26 PM
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I think it's notable that the majority of people saying it shouldn't count had not seen it live, and the majority of people who saw it live seemed to think it should count.

Of course, I was wrong and I retract that- it looks like a majority of *everyone* thinks it counts.  

A majority of EVERYONE.

Now that's what I call a bold unsubstantiated claim.

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Aqua on March 30, 2011, 06:43:21 PM
Yes it's a bloody song :D.
of course it is.

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 06:47:28 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

And you would KNOW this how?




http://www.u2gigs.com/tour232.html

Quote
Opening songs

· Return Of The Stingray Guitar (22)

http://www.u2gigs.com/PopMart_Tour.html
Quote
Opening songs

· Mofo (93)

Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: An Cat Dubh on March 30, 2011, 06:50:38 PM
Dictionary.com...............

Song–noun

1.
a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing,  especially one in rhymed stanzas; a lyric; a ballad.
2.
a musical piece adapted for singing  or simulating a piece to be sung: Mendelssohn's “Songs without Words.”
3.
poetical composition; poetry.
4.
the art or act of singing;  vocal music.
5.
something that is sung.
6.
an elaborate vocal signal produced by an animal, as the distinctive sounds produced by certain birds, frogs, etc., in a courtship or territorial display.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 06:51:48 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

And you would KNOW this how?




http://www.u2gigs.com/tour232.html

Quote
Opening songs

· Return Of The Stingray Guitar (22)

http://www.u2gigs.com/PopMart_Tour.html
Quote
Opening songs

· Mofo (93)



Of course they are going to credit a U2 composition.

What does that prove. ???

 
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 06:53:57 PM
That the premier u2 fansites- as well as u2.com - certainly don't seem to share your views in the slightest.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Exile on March 30, 2011, 06:54:55 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik and this poll pretty clearly indicates, however it may be phrased, that a majority of people would say that they do 'open' 360 with Stingray. :)

Isn't this all moot since they're not even playing it anymore (whatever "it" is)?
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Exile on March 30, 2011, 06:57:55 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

Well, to answer that question we will have to hear from people who attended those shows.  And for completeness, the same people should have attended a 360 show where Stingray was played in order to make the comparison.

If certain people say in a rather condescending way that one had to be at a show when Stingray was played to really know whether it was the *opener* or not, then presumably one would have to have been at a PopMart show to really know whether they considered Pop Muzik to be the opener, or Mofo.
 
For all intents and purposes Pop Muzik served the same purpose as Stingray in that it allowed Bono to prance around the stage uttering words such as "Mowfoe".

Some people might say that after the Pop Muzik intro U2 got down to business with Mofo, in much the same way as some people might say that U2 got down to business with Beautiful Day after the Stingray intro.

Quote
and this poll pretty clearly indicates, however it may be phrased, that a majority of people would say that they do 'open' 360 with Stingray. :)

This poll doesn't ask that question.




I saw Popmart and 360 w/Stingray, and neither intros were songs, they were opening pieces giving the band a chance to get the audience excited before the real show started.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 06:58:13 PM
Well, we have no idea how long it'll be gone for at this stage. :)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 07:02:54 PM
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Except that essentially no-one would say that U2 'opened' Popmart with Pop Muzik

Well, to answer that question we will have to hear from people who attended those shows.  And for completeness, the same people should have attended a 360 show where Stingray was played in order to make the comparison.

If certain people say in a rather condescending way that one had to be at a show when Stingray was played to really know whether it was the *opener* or not, then presumably one would have to have been at a PopMart show to really know whether they considered Pop Muzik to be the opener, or Mofo.
 
For all intents and purposes Pop Muzik served the same purpose as Stingray in that it allowed Bono to prance around the stage uttering words such as "Mowfoe".

Some people might say that after the Pop Muzik intro U2 got down to business with Mofo, in much the same way as some people might say that U2 got down to business with Beautiful Day after the Stingray intro.

Quote
and this poll pretty clearly indicates, however it may be phrased, that a majority of people would say that they do 'open' 360 with Stingray. :)

This poll doesn't ask that question.




I saw Popmart and 360 w/Stingray, and neither intros were songs, they were opening pieces giving the band a chance to get the audience excited before the real show started.

There!!!  Straight from the horses mouth.


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 07:04:32 PM
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Well, we have no idea how long it'll be gone for at this stage. :)

Infinity is a great place to start.   :)



Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 07:07:44 PM
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There!!!  Straight from the horses mouth.



[/quote]

...? O.o Yes indeed, the answer to a question only you considered to be important has arrived!  :D

For the record, that's cool to hear, Exile- you're honestly the first person who's actually seen Stingray live I've known to say that!   :)
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 07:14:34 PM
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...? O.o Yes indeed, the answer to a question only you considered to be important has arrived!  :D

For the record, that's cool to hear, Exile- you're honestly the first person who's actually seen Stingray live I've known to say that!   :)

Yes, and it's come in the form of somebody who attended both a Stingray/w360 show and PopMart show.  :)


Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 07:16:11 PM
But again, no-one but you was trying to make the Pop Muzik point OR the 'must have seen it live' point so it matters to no-one but you. Hell, if you want to use those criteria, BOTH my parents saw them both and both think Stingray is a song (To be precise, my mum looked at me as though I was slightly mad at the idea that it wasn't  :D ) but saw Popmart and realised that Pop Muzik was not. This doesn't seem to be hard for many other people except you.
Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: Tumbling Dice on March 30, 2011, 07:29:56 PM
What can I say, I enjoy talking about PopMart because I'm bored out of my mind talking about the 360 circus.

Is there any U2 show that your dad or your mum didn't see?



Title: Re: Do You Believe "Return of the Stingray Guitar" Is A Song?
Post by: The Unknown Caller on March 30, 2011, 07:41:46 PM
Well, my dad has been following them since 1978, so no for him. Although my mum missed Zoo TV to take care of me as a baby, for which I assure you she has not forgiven me. :P And I do not blame her!