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U2 => Tours => Topic started by: calebu2 on January 16, 2017, 11:41:53 AM

Title: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: calebu2 on January 16, 2017, 11:41:53 AM
It seems you don't get far into the onsales for a U2 tour without coming across hundreds of tickets being resold by scalpers on various venues. Are scalpers an inevitable part of the concert ticket scene? or is there something that the band or LiveNation could do to slow the scalpers down?

Would love to get thoughts and ideas on this thorny topic.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Waffles on January 16, 2017, 11:46:23 AM
Well they're never going to go away
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on January 16, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
I'm afraid there's only so much they can do.  As long as people are willing to pay more than the price the band charges through Ticketmaster, "enterprising" folks will find a way to buy and resell them for a profit.  Maybe one day there will be some kind of thumbprint identification or something to go with each ticket, but let's face it, it's nice to at least be able to legitimately sell tickets you wind up being unable to use yourself.  And frankly, Ticketmaster themselves have figured out how to get their piece of the pie from scalers: Stubhub.  I remember the days when scalping was viewed as a serious offense.  Now it's welcomed, as long as you do it through THEIR interface where they can get their cut of the profits.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Waffles on January 16, 2017, 11:50:30 AM
I've always wondered, how does the band distinguish between scalpers and attendees when they announce 'sold out'
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: flowtheman on January 16, 2017, 11:51:16 AM
I think the only thing to do is personalize the tickets.
During a tour of a German musician (Grönemeyer, probably known to some of you) you only could enter the venue by showing both, tour ticket and ID/drivers license/passport which you had to register during the process of purchase.

But it was a special tour in small venues. Usually playing big stadiums Grönemeyer went small for a couple of shows with about 2.000 to 5.000 per venue. The effort to go this way in big stadiums is probably a lot higher.

If you couldn't attend the show you bought tickets for, you and the person you were selling/giving the ticket had to get in touch with Ticketmaster and they would take care of the transaction or at least monitor it.

I think that's the only way to go. And doing this at 60k stadiums would probably raise the amount of work in a way that ticketprices would rise, too.

Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: riffraff on January 16, 2017, 11:52:04 AM
I bought resale tickets for SOI from the Ticketmaster site...$168 each vs $292 for the venue price. And, they were really good seats, too. Now I'm afraid to do this...due to the credit card entry deal. It's scary...especially if you have to travel to get to the shows. Can't afford to throw money away on a resale ticket if it's not going to be valid. Any advice on this?
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: threechords on January 16, 2017, 12:06:02 PM
I posted this on U2.com

This is SO crappy for fans.  Period.

 

The pros still get their secondary market, there will never be no scalpers.  I mean look at TM itself trying to "grow their secondary market revenue".  That is from their press release in the horse race with stubhub.  The 2 big corporates battling it out woohoo.  And then us fans are left to drivel at each other with the quote from above "but only if you can be at the venue yourself to go to that show (and they meet you, go in with you, etc.)."  It is laughable that people can sing people have the power and not laugh at the silliness of it.  That is a joke.

 

Anyway, sure I could cancel my CC right now.  I could get a new CC#.  I could tell TM hey CC gone, put these NY GA's on another CC (a gift card).  I could sell them for $400 a pair on stub hub.  I mean it's doable, it's a pain but it's there.  So the pros figure this process is a cost of doing business, and they just buy them on the pre-paid cards at the start anyway and ship off that card with the stub hub sale.  us fans are screwed and U2 or other bands didn't prevent anything.  How many posts did we read last tour, wow couldn't make it 2 GA's not used etc.  Amazing it is allowed.  People have the power remember.  The secondary market is growing "low single digits" year over year, per their big companies, so this isn't stopping it.  But oh yeah, the fans get screwed.  I am trying to put a few shows together with my wife.  I met her on WIRE back in 1997.  I have traded GA's with a fan, without incident, every tour since 1997 until last tour.  Sad we can't carry each other.  (does this post have enough sentence fragments lol, sorry)

 

So what is this system?

 

1) screw fans while the big money laughs

2) big money still makes money (and laughs while doing it).

 

It's simple really.  And bad for the fans that pay in to make the whole system go.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Bentleyspop on January 16, 2017, 12:11:53 PM
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I've always wondered, how does the band distinguish between scalpers and attendees when they announce 'sold out'

They don't.
Once ALL of the tickets have ALL been sold and or accounted for, the show is considered  sold out.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Gavin82 on January 16, 2017, 12:19:39 PM
I paid £40 under FV for The Hydro Arena in Glasgow cant complain there
But as already said it us the fans who make the prices when U2 did 3Arena prices werest silly money BUT they were still selling very well.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: robgalloway on January 16, 2017, 12:42:49 PM
On the I+E tour for Berlin 2 I bought a €180 for €90 outside the venue. Touts outside venues are pretty handy at times.

The problem lies SOLELY with the people who are willing to pay more than face value for a ticket.


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Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: m2 on January 16, 2017, 12:47:48 PM
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I've always wondered, how does the band distinguish between scalpers and attendees when they announce 'sold out'

They don't. And the full show isn't really sold out, either. Today's "sold out" announcement doesn't mean every ticket in the stadium has been sold, it means "all of the tickets we decided to release today have been sold." Quite a difference. There are always multiple ticket releases as the shows approach. Always.

And to answer the original question, yes, scalpers are inevitable.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: 1967mca on January 16, 2017, 12:49:10 PM
Prince was meant to play a mini tour in small venues a few years back. When he found out what was happening to the tickets he cancelled the whole tour. Gonna take something like that from more bands before something gets done.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: trevgreg on January 16, 2017, 01:17:04 PM
I agree that there's probably only so much artists, venues and ticket sellers can do about it in the end. Even if things like ID+CC entry did gain a foothold, it'll probably only be 90%+ foolproof in the smaller venues. I can't imagine anything ever becoming commonplace for, say, stadium gigs or maybe even arenas. It's just too many people and the venues themselves might not want to go through the trouble.

In terms of secondary sites and StubHub, there is always a flip side to it if you go to shows regularly. It is nice to have an option to sell your tickets if you're unable to use them, and I've used those sites plenty to see shows I wasn't able to get tickets for... some times even at less the price than what a regular ticket would have cost. Two years ago, I bought a 4th row floor ticket for the Rolling Stones that was half the regular price. Still $200+, but like I said, that's the flip side argument for you!
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: shesarainbow on January 16, 2017, 01:17:28 PM
No, they don't have to be. Surely U2 have the power to ban the sale of their tickets for inflated prices on secondary sites. They could do the right thing by leading the way with this.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: soloyan on January 17, 2017, 05:36:26 AM
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Prince was meant to play a mini tour in small venues a few years back. When he found out what was happening to the tickets he cancelled the whole tour. Gonna take something like that from more bands before something gets done.

...and what good did it do ? To anyone ?

Prince was a great artist but a lame businessman. It's easy to pull out or scream "outrage" but sitting down and finding a solution requires more skills. The first victims of such "protest" acts are the fans. Always.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: il_capo on January 17, 2017, 06:50:36 AM
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I've always wondered, how does the band distinguish between scalpers and attendees when they announce 'sold out'

They don't. And the full show isn't really sold out, either. Today's "sold out" announcement doesn't mean every ticket in the stadium has been sold, it means "all of the tickets we decided to release today have been sold." Quite a difference. There are always multiple ticket releases as the shows approach. Always.

And to answer the original question, yes, scalpers are inevitable.

I think that multiple releases may be a good thing because it can mean a sizeable amount of tickets are released in the week leading up to the show, and this undercuts the ability of scalpers to extort fans.  On the other hand, if a fan can't get a ticket and is not aware a ticket drop is taking place, then they can lose out. 
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Saint1322 on January 17, 2017, 07:33:34 AM
As long as people who get shut out panic and pay over face on ticketing sites, scalpers are here to stay.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: coldrain85 on January 17, 2017, 04:40:21 PM
U2 actually does a better job than most by using paperless ticketing. They have enough industry clout to demand 50% of the tickets for their fan club presale. Not only that, but they make those tickets available to the fans vs. raking all of the good locations for their VIP's and getting rid of the scraps in the fan club presale. Scalpers hate GA, so U2 demands GA at every show. Scalpers hate paperless tickets and it worked for a little while, but unfortunately scalpers have figured out a way around it.

Look, U2 has a big fan base. If you want tickets, look around and you might find some here.... at cost. I might have some extra Red Zone tickets for Levi's Stadium. I'm not sure yet, but I'd say it's more than a coin flip. My dilemma is finding someone who is on the level and really wants to make it happen. I don't know anyone here and it would require some trust on both sides.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: briscoetheque on January 17, 2017, 04:55:27 PM
Photos/ID on tickets and a face value resale facility (where you can't allocate the ticket to a specific person) fixes this immediately.

It works for one of the big music festivals here.

Name and DOB on the tickets upon purchase. If you want to sell the tickets because you can't go, fine. It will cost you $20 but they can be sold via the same online sales method.

I can't sell my ticket to you, but I sell it back to the ticket office and they sell it again to someone else on my behalf, then I get my money.

Foolproof and can't be exploited by scalpers unless they sell the ticket upfront (ie before it's purchased).

Ticketmaster/Live Nation don't care. They get more money being scalpers themselves via their resale facility, they double dip because they get the fees on the initial sale and then again on the subsequent sale. They love scalping, so long as they are the ones doing it.

Bands make none of this double dipped money, so they only make the money based on first round legitimate ticket sales. They don't like scalping in theory but they make no more nor less if they stamp it out. Commercially, their lawyers and accountants don't care.

Follow the money.

For scalping to stop, the market has to stop.

The ability to resell needs to be removed.
The demand for tickets from secondary markets needs to be removed

Nothing else will stop scalping.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: Cindy on January 18, 2017, 06:03:53 PM
Yep, Ticketmaster and Live Nation are one company called "Live Nation Entertainment"...Greedy!!
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: riffraff on January 19, 2017, 04:30:07 AM
all I know is that to get two "decent" seats somewhere, like the Rose Bowl, would cost you almost $600. It would be worth it, if it was at all affordable. But...
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: ADDinChicago on January 19, 2017, 04:55:40 AM
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Prince was meant to play a mini tour in small venues a few years back. When he found out what was happening to the tickets he cancelled the whole tour. Gonna take something like that from more bands before something gets done.

Exactly. Or everything is going to have to go total CC with an actual ID screening, much like going on a plane. But I don't see that ever happening, at least not for a large stadium/arena tour. Too much time and too much money involved.

And the scalpers are indeed inevitable. If you're a licensed broker, or not, if you sell a ticket for a profit, you're now a scalper. There's always going to be demand and someone is always going to be willing to sell. Look at something like Stub Hub. This stuff is never going away because now anyone can be a scalper. If you (and I'm not directing this at you. I'm saying in general) think it's "too high" or "unfair", I'm sorry, don't go then. Someone else will. I agree it sucks. However, I also see it as a business. Not everyone buying a ticket is a fan. Concerts are like sports.
Title: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: robgalloway on January 19, 2017, 05:12:07 AM
It's SOOOOO easy to stop scalpers. Simply don't pay more than face value for a ticket. Job done. If you pay more than the price of the ticket then you are the problem.

I personally like the touts outside of venues buying and selling off the crowd. Got some ace deals over the years.

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER

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Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: ADDinChicago on January 19, 2017, 05:16:43 AM
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It's SOOOOO easy to stop scalpers. Simply don't pay more than face value for a ticket. Job done. If you pay more than the price of the ticket then you are the problem.

I personally like the touts outside of venues buying and selling off the crowd. Got some ace deals over the years.

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, however, this is like the "I don't like beer prices at shows or games, so I won't buy it and the prices will lower". Someone else is always going to be willing to pay above and beyond for what they want when it's not readily available and/or you're stuck. You'll feel good and win your own personal fight, but the war will never end. Clearly not enough people seem to feel that they're "part of the problem". If you want to attend something, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: riffraff on January 19, 2017, 05:46:48 AM
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It's SOOOOO easy to stop scalpers. Simply don't pay more than face value for a ticket. Job done. If you pay more than the price of the ticket then you are the problem.

I personally like the touts outside of venues buying and selling off the crowd. Got some ace deals over the years.

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, however, this is like the "I don't like beer prices at shows or games, so I won't buy it and the prices will lower". Someone else is always going to be willing to pay above and beyond for what they want when it's not readily available and/or you're stuck. You'll feel good and win your own personal fight, but the war will never end. Clearly not enough people seem to feel that they're "part of the problem". If you want to attend something, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Well, I did buy resale (via Ticketmaster site) for SOI. Good, seats. WAY cheaper than the venue price. And, do I feel bad? NO! It made it possible for me to see the show, AND go again to the second show...also on a resale ticket, via Ticketmaster site. I don't really approve of scalping, but if the sale is ON THE TICKETMASTER SITE, I think it's acceptable. Some of us simply cannot afford the venue prices...if I could, I would! That said, I would never pay MORE than venue prices for a resale seat...even if I could afford it.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: briscoetheque on January 19, 2017, 05:56:28 AM
Is it not hypocritical though to pay less than face value? We're upset at people selling tickets for over face value, yet only too pleased to pay half price on the day of the show from a guy whose wife may have simply been unable to go?

Aren't we having it a bit each way?

If we subscribe to 'the market'  and capitalism, supply and demand, we should accept both unders and overs.

I'm obviously having some devils advocate fun here.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: riffraff on January 19, 2017, 06:02:33 AM
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Is it not hypocritical though to pay less than face value? We're upset at people selling tickets for over face value, yet only too pleased to pay half price on the day of the show from a guy whose wife may have simply been unable to go?

Aren't we having it a bit each way?

If we subscribe to 'the market'  and capitalism, supply and demand, we should accept both unders and overs.

I'm obviously having some devils advocate fun here.
And, we DO love playing the devils advocate, don't we? And, you may be right about having it a bit each way...but I still don't feel bad. lol.
I got to go to the shows...and it meant the world to me...I'll NEVER forget.
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: briscoetheque on January 19, 2017, 06:23:42 AM
And if a guy lost $50 because his wife got ill, that's OK because hey, we got to see a show and saved some bucks?

(you're right. I DO love playing avocado diablo or whatever the Latin is. It's fun)
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: riffraff on January 19, 2017, 06:30:00 AM
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And if a guy lost $50 because his wife got ill, that's OK because hey, we got to see a show and saved some bucks?

(you're right. I DO love playing avocado diablo or whatever the Latin is. It's fun)
avocado diablo! I love it...
oh, and tell the guy whose wife got ill...so sorry...really! I got to see the show! And, saved more than a few bucks! YAY!
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: AchtungPop on January 19, 2017, 07:29:08 AM
OK here's what I don't get: I bought tickets in Concourse 1 for Metlife. Clicked the "SELL" button on my ticket page out of curiosity. Says "Sorry but due to ticket delivery restrictions, these tickets cannot be sold." Yet if you look on ticketmaster resale for the June 28th show, there are thousands of tickets for sale in all three concourses, only GA is where you can't find any.

Or are some tickets sellable depending on section?
Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: robgalloway on January 19, 2017, 08:53:42 AM
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And if a guy lost $50 because his wife got ill, that's OK because hey, we got to see a show and saved some bucks?

(you're right. I DO love playing avocado diablo or whatever the Latin is. It's fun)

Some venues sell insurance with the ticket?

I don't believe in a total ban on reselling tickets. The culture of people paying more than the advertised price needs to change. I actually like touts outside of venues. They might take your unused ticket off you for a lower price and try sell it to other people and make some money on it. Often the touts are forced to sell for less than value. At least they are prepared to stand there in the wind and rain.

These faceless resale sites are a con. If society stopped using them then there would be no business. The resale sites were set up in response to people selling tickets for inflated prices on EBay which you can no longer do. TicketMaster set up these pages because they saw extra money to be made from people who are prepared to pay more.

Society needs to also learn that it's ok to miss a show. I couldn't get a ticket this around but good luck to all those who got one. I'm not prepared to pay more than face value. I am prepared though to get to Twickenham and stand outside and try buy a standing GA ticket on the day with £50 in my wallet.


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Title: Re: Are scalpers inevitable?
Post by: stellina on January 19, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
I also will not pay above face value for a ticket.  If I haven't been able to get tickets, I have been very successful the day of the concert (and you really have to have patience for this) to wait and watch the prices drop on stubhub, especially if you really sweat it out and wait a few hours before the concert is taking place

I don't understand why someone would pay $300 for GA seats that cost $70.  Even if I had a ton of money, I just wouldn't pay that ridiculous price.