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U2 => Tours => Topic started by: garyu2 on May 03, 2018, 07:42:22 AM

Title: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: garyu2 on May 03, 2018, 07:42:22 AM
£200/$200 a ticket to see lipsyncing??

Watched a couple of videos of the Tulsa shows and blatantly obvious on Love Is All We Have Left and Elevation. For the love of...

PS/ the Tulsa crowd was terrible. Could they appear more bored?

Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: McSwilly on May 03, 2018, 07:47:22 AM
And while he was lip syncing Dallas was playing the guitar under the stage to "supplement" Edge. I am sure they still do this way less than most bands.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 07:53:37 AM
I knew about LIAWHL and they were honest about it, but Elevation? Are you sure?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Mr. Sarajevo 20 on May 03, 2018, 07:55:50 AM
Get in the ball-game...
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Saint22 on May 03, 2018, 08:24:04 AM
You must not have been following rumors.

LIAWHL is an INTRO, not a setlisted song. It is part of the visual.

Dallas has been playing under the stage since at least 1992, maybe later.
Prerecorded background vocals and keyboards have been used since 1984. Did you think Edge was overdubbing himself?

Are y'all new?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 08:37:58 AM
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You must not have been following rumors.

LIAWHL is an INTRO, not a setlisted song. It is part of the visual.

Dallas has been playing under the stage since at least 1992, maybe later.
Prerecorded background vocals and keyboards have been used since 1984. Did you think Edge was overdubbing himself?

Are y'all new?

This is known and 100% fine with me.

But does anyone else think Elevation was lip synched? Because that would be a different matter to me.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Saint22 on May 03, 2018, 08:39:12 AM
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You must not have been following rumors.

LIAWHL is an INTRO, not a setlisted song. It is part of the visual.

Dallas has been playing under the stage since at least 1992, maybe later.
Prerecorded background vocals and keyboards have been used since 1984. Did you think Edge was overdubbing himself?

Are y'all new?

This is known and 100% fine with me.

But does anyone else think Elevation was lip synched? Because that would be a different matter to me.

It would matter to me too if none of the vocals were live. I seriously doubt that's the case.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 08:50:25 AM
Well, what if it were just a few lines?

I would not feel great about that. Bono reworked a few vocals to fit his current range, and that was the graceful thing to do.

Mariah Carey might have a few high notes she needs to sync but our guys are a rock band.

One thing I even like about them is - Bono had days where his voice was trash, even back in the early days. And when you think he'd just slink off after phoning in a show he couldn't get in tune with, he'd just work harder and harder. I think PopMart Rotterdam, the show started weak, but he pushed and pushed and suddenly (imho, during Found) his voice clicked and he went on to deliver an amazing performance for the latter half.

Maybe he can't just hard-work his way through it anymore, but I think this is a guy who would rework vocals or drop the song.

There's a reason we haven't been getting Drowning Man, and as disappointing as it may be, this is better.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 03, 2018, 09:30:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9KFsILqvQ

Judge for yourselves
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: roma70 on May 03, 2018, 12:34:49 PM
There is no excuse for lip syncing LIAWHL. It is not a difficult song for Bono to sing.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 03, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
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There is no excuse for lip syncing LIAWHL. It is not a difficult song for Bono to sing.
no one sings anymore so it is what it is
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: ian ryan on May 03, 2018, 12:41:36 PM
The show was 26 songs long without LIAWHL, which is about the longest setlist they've ever done. Who cares if the introduction is more stage act than actual performance? The setlist is phenomenal.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 01:24:20 PM
I don't care about LIAWHL because it is a stage entrance, it was billed as a recording. They've entered on recorded songs before, it's fine. And this particular one seems almost crafted for the purpose.

Elevation is totally different. When I get a chance I'll watch it.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 03, 2018, 02:04:34 PM
Yeah...

LIAWHL is meant for AR phone app with the screen. It's an entrance
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: dfndub on May 03, 2018, 02:25:22 PM
Didn't look or sound lip synched to me on Elevation. I mean if it was, I would surely expect a better use of vocals for it, as he sounds his usual off-key, more excitement than note hitting self.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Absonjourney on May 03, 2018, 02:32:40 PM
Anyone who thinks the Tulsa crowd was bored wasn't there. That's a crazy statement. Crowd was singing and screaming full throated through the entire performance.

Just goes to show you can't get a feel for a performance through Periscope.

As far as "lip syncing" Elevation goes...that's false.

Seriously some of you are just looking for things to complain about.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Ok, I just watched the video. Normally I would be careful and say it didn't seem lip synched to me, or imho it wasn't, or as far as I could tell it wasn't.

Screw that. It was not lip synched.

It doesn't sound lip synched. It doesn't look lip synched. It ain't lip synched.

Glad we were able to dispense with that.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: dfndub on May 03, 2018, 03:12:36 PM
Watch someone's YouTube video of "All Because of You". The crowd is pretty with it, there. Fist pumps and jumping, which isn't what I would expect for that particular song as it's not one of the more popular ones. Looked fun to me :)
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: garyu2 on May 03, 2018, 03:25:48 PM
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Ok, I just watched the video. Normally I would be careful and say it didn't seem lip synched to me, or imho it wasn't, or as far as I could tell it wasn't.

Screw that. It was not lip synched.

It doesn't sound lip synched. It doesn't look lip synched. It ain't lip synched.

Glad we were able to dispense with that.


I should have been more detailed - https://youtu.be/wL9KFsILqvQ - at around 1:34 it looks really off. I know Bono sings the lyrics, but the ďwoo-hoooĒ parts just Jarred me. His mouth doesnít even make the shape that it should. If Iím wrong then GOOD I hope I am itís hust how it looks. But I ainít wrong about Love Is All We Have Left.

Everyoneís happy with the first song being lip synced because itís an App/intro piece or whatever? I think thatís pretty poor.
Someone tell me why he couldnít just sing a perfectly easy song. Iím more annoyed at the pointlessness of it.

If youíre going to play an intro track over the PA then donít have Bono out on stage mouthing along to it. Itís not what Iím paying a small fortune to see.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 04:02:15 PM
I'll check your time stamp when I can but I thought Edge also sings the whoo hoo parts live, is it possible that at a moment he just let Edge carry it? I've seen that with other songs too.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Lebowski on May 03, 2018, 04:56:02 PM
My impression for years has been that Bono, in certain spots, sings along to a backing track of himself, that way it sounds fuller. Or in some cases, he can't hit certain notes anymore and the backing track is the more powerful vocal.  I don't see the big deal with that. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 05:04:29 PM
That would kind of suck. I thought Edge carried all the backing stuff live, even when it's a Bono overdub on the album. And why not? Edge has it pretty well nailed. Though I guess he never had much vocal power, hmm.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: podiumboy on May 03, 2018, 05:23:56 PM
Bono has sang along with a backing track of himself on Elevation since the Elevation Tour.  It's only on the "HOOOOO!!!" parts.  His falsetto is not what it used to be, and it's not a guarantee that he can hit it perfectly every time.  The rest of the vocals on the song are live.

As far as LIAWHL, I wouldn't call that lip syncing.  He's not even pretending to be singing it live.  He doesn't even have a microphone to his mouth!  He's just singing along with himself for the hell of it. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: U2Fan on May 03, 2018, 05:37:32 PM
I thought the Woo-Hoos in Elevation have always been pre-recorded since 2001.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 03, 2018, 05:48:20 PM
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I thought the Woo-Hoos in Elevation have always been pre-recorded since 2001.

Not entirely...

I've been at gigs where the Woo-Hoos were sung by the crowd and not Bono

Probably have been at various other times though... Maybe it's just on this tour

LIAWHL...He's not even pretending to sing and he doesn't even have a microphone. He just pops down from the screen to give an extra feeling from the AR app thing. Not really Ar**d about that.

If he sings live, great...If not, that means you have to completely restructure the entrance of the band
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Clarky on May 03, 2018, 05:52:43 PM
The woo-hoo's are probably (90% positive) lip-synced but the rest isn't.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 03, 2018, 06:17:10 PM
I'm more curious as to how the rest of the bloody band ended up in the screen
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 03, 2018, 06:40:07 PM
All bands and singers do this.  Bono also uses auto tune live.  People donít expect to hear real live music they want the stupid perfection they are accustomed to on iTunes.  I love the accidents and screw ups of the old live music itís what made the show you are at unique. Those days are gone.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 06:52:03 PM
He uses autotune live?

If so, they do a crap job of it. I think he sounded good early last night but then kind of went off key as the night progressed.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: cocamojoe on May 03, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
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All bands and singers do this.  Bono also uses auto tune live.  People donít expect to hear real live music they want the stupid perfection they are accustomed to on iTunes.  I love the accidents and screw ups of the old live music itís what made the show you are at unique. Those days are gone.
In the 10 shows that Iíve seen, dating back to the Vertigo Tour, Iíve heard far too many vocal eff-ups from Bono to readily believe that he uses autotune live, to fix his foibles.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: jgrooms on May 03, 2018, 07:13:59 PM
U2 has been using backing tracks for a long long time.  If this is just bothering you then you have been asleep.

Bono sings the main vocal lines but if you pay attention he is supplemented by backing tracks of his own voice.  There are also many parts added, extra guitars, synths etc. 

Who do you think has been playing the keyboard on Bad or the intro to Streets all these years? Adam? LOL
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 03, 2018, 07:34:38 PM
Yeah I knew about the synths and you didn't have to insult me with that asleep crap. I don't know how you know it but perhaps you have fully working ears. I'm working with a hearing impairment and it can be difficult to discern layers of sound. Asleep? Well I don't know what your excuse is.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 03, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
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All bands and singers do this.  Bono also uses auto tune live.  People donít expect to hear real live music they want the stupid perfection they are accustomed to on iTunes.  I love the accidents and screw ups of the old live music itís what made the show you are at unique. Those days are gone.
In the 10 shows that Iíve seen, dating back to the Vertigo Tour, Iíve heard far too many vocal eff-ups from Bono to readily believe that he uses autotune live, to fix his foibles.
he turns it on and off itís called pitch control.  Itís standard in the industry
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: RossG1977 on May 03, 2018, 11:47:18 PM
U2 has a team under the stage.  Dallas and what's his name.  I forget the keyboardist's name.  But they have been doing this for years.   IF you want real genuine music with no backing tracks and REALLY really honest and live, then go to a Phish or a String Cheese Incident show (both bands I love, FYI).   U2 aren't virtuoso players.   It's about the songs and delivery and spirit of the shows.  It's not Edge who is who is playing the backing track to Bad.  I'm okay with "underground" backing players, as long as the songs are honest and the delivery is sincere.  In the case with U2, it always has been.   But it would kinda be cool to see all the players on stage, don't you think.  You know, like Pink Floyd or Roger Waters.   All 7 or 8 people are on stage. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: garyu2 on May 04, 2018, 01:17:56 AM
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U2 has been using backing tracks for a long long time.  If this is just bothering you then you have been asleep.

Bono sings the main vocal lines but if you pay attention he is supplemented by backing tracks of his own voice.  There are also many parts added, extra guitars, synths etc. 

Who do you think has been playing the keyboard on Bad or the intro to Streets all these years? Adam? LOL


Thereís a difference between the backing track of instruments (Iím fully aware that almost EVERY U2 song has some form or another) and Bono mouthing along to Love Is All We Have Left. All just to supplement an iPhone app gimmick.

Iíd rather watch him stand there and sing the song with my phone in my pocket.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Sevy2016 on May 04, 2018, 02:29:56 AM
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U2 has been using backing tracks for a long long time.  If this is just bothering you then you have been asleep.

Bono sings the main vocal lines but if you pay attention he is supplemented by backing tracks of his own voice.  There are also many parts added, extra guitars, synths etc. 

Who do you think has been playing the keyboard on Bad or the intro to Streets all these years? Adam? LOL

It was adam playing the organ intro for streets actually. Watch any JT2017 show his feet do the talking!
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 04, 2018, 03:55:29 AM
I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: dtc on May 04, 2018, 05:28:31 AM
Sorry but so much nonsense. Adam is NOT playing the organ - it is a Moog Taurus foot controller with a synth bass patch and he plays single bass notes. The rest is a backing track.

For about the millionth time - Dallas is NOT playing guitar. He is a guitar tech. He prepares guitars for Edge and the next song. He tunes them. He changes the presets and operates pedals when Edge is walking about. He hangs around, ready to hand Edge a fresh appropriate guitar if he breaks a string or something else goes wrong. So he has 2 guitars ready for the next song - he may have a few Strats for example but they are not all in the same tune so concentration is required to get it right. Right key, right string guage, right knob settings. No room for mistakes with Edge.

At what stage do you imagine that Dallas has time to play guitar? There is of course extra guitar, but on a small amount of songs. If you hear it then it is on the backing track with the additional keyboards, strings, percussion and backing vocals.

If you have seen videos of him with a guitar appearing to play it, that's because you have to actually touch them whilst getting them ready. You may even strum a few chords or test out some actual U2 licks.

But, please feel free to show me a moment in Tulsa (or any other show) where there is an example of Dallas playing the guitar? I can point to examples where he is there with the right fresh guitar when a problem occurred. How is he managing all of this? He's great but he's just one man.

Sorry if any of this shatters any illusions :)

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: bigstrides on May 04, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
As others have said, there are backing guitars and vocals on some songs.  In terms of some of the synth and organ on songs, it comes from Terry Lawless, who the lads whimsically dub the 5th member of the band.  Terry has been playing synth and organ under the stage for their shows since at least the ZooTV tour. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: dtc on May 04, 2018, 07:04:51 AM
Just checked on Terry Lawless' site and he is indeed with them. He doesn't play everything of course - some is on backing track but he is still imo the only extra live musician.

As far as Bono goes, I would imagine he has "vocal reinforcement" at some stages. Edge has some such as the backing vocals on Beautiful Day - he is of course singing but there is more going on. Same with Bono.

Ultimately without the extra stuff it would be a very empty sounding show.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 04, 2018, 08:04:52 AM
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I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
it is I have a click track
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Mr. Sarajevo 20 on May 04, 2018, 08:16:12 AM
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Bono has sang along with a backing track of himself on Elevation since the Elevation Tour.  It's only on the "HOOOOO!!!" parts.  His falsetto is not what it used to be, and it's not a guarantee that he can hit it perfectly every time.  The rest of the vocals on the song are live.

As far as LIAWHL, I wouldn't call that lip syncing.  He's not even pretending to be singing it live.  He doesn't even have a microphone to his mouth!  He's just singing along with himself for the hell of it.
Thank you.

Anyone that has followed the band knows that on the Elevation Tour the Woo-Hoos had a backing track... they didn't want him blowing his voice 2 minutes into the show.

As far as LIAWHL... it's obvious he's just "miming along"...Bono's not trying to fool anyone into believing he's singing it live.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Mr. Sarajevo 20 on May 04, 2018, 08:17:27 AM
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U2 has a team under the stage.  Dallas and what's his name.  I forget the keyboardist's name.  But they have been doing this for years.   IF you want real genuine music with no backing tracks and REALLY really honest and live, then go to a Phish or a String Cheese Incident show (both bands I love, FYI).   U2 aren't virtuoso players.   It's about the songs and delivery and spirit of the shows.  It's not Edge who is who is playing the backing track to Bad.  I'm okay with "underground" backing players, as long as the songs are honest and the delivery is sincere.  In the case with U2, it always has been.   But it would kinda be cool to see all the players on stage, don't you think.  You know, like Pink Floyd or Roger Waters.   All 7 or 8 people are on stage.
Terry Lawless.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Mr. Sarajevo 20 on May 04, 2018, 08:19:57 AM
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Sorry but so much nonsense. Adam is NOT playing the organ - it is a Moog Taurus foot controller with a synth bass patch and he plays single bass notes. The rest is a backing track.

For about the millionth time - Dallas is NOT playing guitar. He is a guitar tech. He prepares guitars for Edge and the next song. He tunes them. He changes the presets and operates pedals when Edge is walking about. He hangs around, ready to hand Edge a fresh appropriate guitar if he breaks a string or something else goes wrong. So he has 2 guitars ready for the next song - he may have a few Strats for example but they are not all in the same tune so concentration is required to get it right. Right key, right string guage, right knob settings. No room for mistakes with Edge.

At what stage do you imagine that Dallas has time to play guitar? There is of course extra guitar, but on a small amount of songs. If you hear it then it is on the backing track with the additional keyboards, strings, percussion and backing vocals.

If you have seen videos of him with a guitar appearing to play it, that's because you have to actually touch them whilst getting them ready. You may even strum a few chords or test out some actual U2 licks.

But, please feel free to show me a moment in Tulsa (or any other show) where there is an example of Dallas playing the guitar? I can point to examples where he is there with the right fresh guitar when a problem occurred. How is he managing all of this? He's great but he's just one man.

Sorry if any of this shatters any illusions :)

...Mic-Drop.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 04, 2018, 08:47:24 AM
Itís a show relax and enjoy the magic, donít worry about how it happens
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 04, 2018, 09:44:32 AM
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I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
it is I have a click track

Ermmm a click track is to keep you in time. It not auto tune. Not sure how that is supposed to prove anything

He's a bit flat and a bit sharp on a lot of songs live. If he was using auto tune, he'd be 100% spot on, with every note he sings. That's not the case.
Also, auto tune is extremely easy to hear and spot. They are 100% not using it.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 04, 2018, 10:38:00 AM
Maybe on the click track you are hearing recorded backing vocals?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 04, 2018, 12:02:11 PM
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I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
it is I have a click track

Ermmm a click track is to keep you in time. It not auto tune. Not sure how that is supposed to prove anything

He's a bit flat and a bit sharp on a lot of songs live. If he was using auto tune, he'd be 100% spot on, with every note he sings. That's not the case.
Also, auto tune is extremely easy to hear and spot. They are 100% not using it.
ok Iím sorry let me rephrase itís the in ear instructions and you can hear Pitch Control.  Click track is what we called all that in ear stuff back in the day itís been 20 years I donít know what the kids call it now
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: jgrooms on May 04, 2018, 12:33:49 PM
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U2 has been using backing tracks for a long long time.  If this is just bothering you then you have been asleep.

Bono sings the main vocal lines but if you pay attention he is supplemented by backing tracks of his own voice.  There are also many parts added, extra guitars, synths etc. 

Who do you think has been playing the keyboard on Bad or the intro to Streets all these years? Adam? LOL

It was adam playing the organ intro for streets actually. Watch any JT2017 show his feet do the talking!

Those are Moog Taurus 3 bass pedals to produce long sustained bass notes, it is not the main organ synth for the Streets intro.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: the_chief on May 04, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
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I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
it is I have a click track

Ermmm a click track is to keep you in time. It not auto tune. Not sure how that is supposed to prove anything

He's a bit flat and a bit sharp on a lot of songs live. If he was using auto tune, he'd be 100% spot on, with every note he sings. That's not the case.
Also, auto tune is extremely easy to hear and spot. They are 100% not using it.
ok Iím sorry let me rephrase itís the in ear instructions and you can hear Pitch Control.  Click track is what we called all that in ear stuff back in the day itís been 20 years I donít know what the kids call it now

That doesn't explain why he's flat and too sharp on certain notes in a lot of songs.
He's not using auto tune at all. That is a fact.

Backing vocals however....Sounds like there's an entire choir there at times
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 04, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
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I'm a musician and spend a lot of time in the studio.
I can 100% say auto tune is not used live by Bono or anyone else in the band.
it is I have a click track

Ermmm a click track is to keep you in time. It not auto tune. Not sure how that is supposed to prove anything

He's a bit flat and a bit sharp on a lot of songs live. If he was using auto tune, he'd be 100% spot on, with every note he sings. That's not the case.
Also, auto tune is extremely easy to hear and spot. They are 100% not using it.
ok Iím sorry let me rephrase itís the in ear instructions and you can hear Pitch Control.  Click track is what we called all that in ear stuff back in the day itís been 20 years I donít know what the kids call it now

That doesn't explain why he's flat and too sharp on certain notes in a lot of songs.
He's not using auto tune at all. That is a fact.

Backing vocals however....Sounds like there's an entire choir there at times
I agree there it turns on and off for parts he needs it or wants it I donít know but itís used.  In my best estimate itís higher parts.

Itís standard itís not like heís doing something everyone else doesnít do.

Itís a show there are a million people who can sing better than Bono none of them have anything good to say nore are they the snowman he is.  His brilliance isnít in a perfect execution of a song itís the lyrics and his passion
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Rono on May 05, 2018, 05:59:59 AM
If you watch the videos from St Louis it looks like he is wearing a mic??(Particularly around the 2 minute mark) https://youtu.be/38jQW1X90dU
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: cocamojoe on May 05, 2018, 11:55:43 AM
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All bands and singers do this.  Bono also uses auto tune live.  People donít expect to hear real live music they want the stupid perfection they are accustomed to on iTunes.  I love the accidents and screw ups of the old live music itís what made the show you are at unique. Those days are gone.
In the 10 shows that Iíve seen, dating back to the Vertigo Tour, Iíve heard far too many vocal eff-ups from Bono to readily believe that he uses autotune live, to fix his foibles.
he turns it on and off itís called pitch control.  Itís standard in the industry

On some bootlegs, particularly from last year, in addition to the ď1, 2, 1-2-3-4Ē one Can audibly here, to help keep the band in time, one can sometimes hear a pitch, almost sounding like a theremin. I remember specifically hearing it on Bad. Itís not auto tune to fix Bonoís voice; itís for him to hear and to help stay in key, by singing along with it.

At least, thatís how Iíve always understood it.

With that said, Iíve always deleted those bootlegs, as I canít stand hearing the ď1, 2, 1-2-3-4Ē every 45 seconds.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on May 05, 2018, 12:16:40 PM
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All bands and singers do this.  Bono also uses auto tune live.  People donít expect to hear real live music they want the stupid perfection they are accustomed to on iTunes.  I love the accidents and screw ups of the old live music itís what made the show you are at unique. Those days are gone.
In the 10 shows that Iíve seen, dating back to the Vertigo Tour, Iíve heard far too many vocal eff-ups from Bono to readily believe that he uses autotune live, to fix his foibles.
he turns it on and off itís called pitch control.  Itís standard in the industry

On some bootlegs, particularly from last year, in addition to the ď1, 2, 1-2-3-4Ē one Can audibly here, to help keep the band in time, one can sometimes hear a pitch, almost sounding like a theremin. I remember specifically hearing it on Bad. Itís not auto tune to fix Bonoís voice; itís for him to hear and to help stay in key, by singing along with it.

At least, thatís how Iíve always understood it.

With that said, Iíve always deleted those bootlegs, as I canít stand hearing the ď1, 2, 1-2-3-4Ē every 45 seconds.
um no he asks for pitch control in a separate mic by saying pitch.  So yes he uses it why wouldnt he when everyone else does
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: roma70 on May 06, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
I have no problem with U2 using sequencers and backing tracks - they have done this for many years, but miming too LIAWHL is inexplicable and inexcusable. Just look at some of the comments on youtube to see the flack that they are attracting. Just sing the song!
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: garyu2 on May 06, 2018, 03:53:47 PM
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I have no problem with U2 using sequencers and backing tracks - they have done this for many years, but miming too LIAWHL is inexplicable and inexcusable. Just look at some of the comments on youtube to see the flack that they are attracting. Just sing the song!

Agreed. Though watch out for a backlash like I got.

Am I the only one who thinks this AR gimmick at the start of the show is terrible?

It kills the atmosphere. It doesnít even look cool. The graphics themselves are not impressive. Half the audience has no idea whatís going on. The song itself isnít a showpiece song (I love it though), hardly ideal for a concert start.

If they were really determined about this whole idea then ok...fine...play the MP3 over the PA ($200 a ticket for this!?) and have the graphic do its thing. But DONT have Bono stand there and mime like heís Britney Spears. Couldnít they do this without him? Just have the band appear for The Blackout?

Itís wretched. But then the band go and play Acrobat and youíre like ďJesus, what a song, what a band!Ē
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: skelter on May 06, 2018, 04:39:33 PM
^nah. It's cute to see the massive celebrity of Bono and he's great at silent acting.

In StL yt vid, he was looking at someone tenderly while miming "hey this is no time not to be alive". I would cry if I was that lucky person, God get me through 2018.

Also, he had a mic attached to his face in StL liawhl. He did NOT mouth "now, you(re) at the other end of the telescope"

On the album, is it Edge or Bono who sings this part?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 06, 2018, 05:00:23 PM
It's Bono, with his voice modified by Vocoder effects.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: skelter on May 06, 2018, 05:08:36 PM
Thank u for solving this mystery for me, that Edge doesn't sing the "telescope" part on liawhl!

It sounds a bit falsetto-ish, so I thought Edge did "telescope" and the next line "7 billion stars".
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 06, 2018, 06:00:17 PM
Yeah, that was a question I asked in another thread - it's a very important distinction for the meaning of the song. I'm happy it's all Bono - this feels very much like he's been removed from the world in this one, perhaps in a limbo. Edge shouldn't be in this one.

Incidentally, I also asked about YTBTAM and it's Edge telling him he can see it all so clearly, etc., but it's not a mortal song.

I've been told LIAWHL preceded The Event, but no matter to me, this totally reads to me as the song for that mortal moment, and I think the OP's observation totally confirmed that. So like Kite was written for him to speak to his sons but it turned out it was his father speaking to his own sons. The timing doesn't preclude the meaning if he embraces it, and he clearly has.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on May 08, 2018, 12:13:05 AM
Yeah, I don't get why he's doing it on this track when there's plenty of room to play with it considering the layers of vocals on the record (he could sing just the vocoder part live, i.e singing to himself "at the other end of the telescope", he could dramatically enter late in the song, etc, just SOMETHING)

And yeah, there's pitch correction all over these days. Though from seeing em and hearing a million bootlegs, not live at shows. TONS on official live albums/DVDs (listen to MLK on the 360 Rose Bowl DVD for the most offensive example), and yeah, lots on SoE too (stands out quite a bit in Summer Of Love to me). I kind of hate it (flaws are good!), but that's the way it is.

Backing tracks are fine!
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on May 08, 2018, 05:53:29 AM
Guys, what is he doing with his hands during LIAWHL?

I get the feeling there's a theatrical reason for the lip syncing.

It's a time where he cannot make words. He is thinking/feeling them, but his movements/voice are restricted.

His hands, I haven't grasped what he is doing, but it's something very deliberate.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on May 09, 2018, 06:58:33 PM
Glad we can close the book on this!

Last night in San Jose LIAWHL was LIVE and GREAT.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: skelter on May 09, 2018, 07:47:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T6LVcZu_2oE

Ok. He looks pretty live-ish even during SJ#1 liawhl.

Us fans & audience are so crazy about him looking our way. He should look into the crowd more suring his liawhl AI doll act.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: redapple129 on May 12, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cP08IuPZcM Aside from the vocoder on the second verse he sounds 100% live now and I've got no problem with him leaving the first half of that verse just the track to come back in on the second half. Not sure why he felt the need to phase in doing this song live but I'm glad it's behind us.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: jackd2e on May 12, 2018, 12:16:46 PM
Bono was lip sinking LIAWHL until San Jose Night 2. he actually sung it.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: skelter on May 12, 2018, 04:57:06 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cP08IuPZcM Aside from the vocoder on the second verse he sounds 100% live now and I've got no problem with him leaving the first half of that verse just the track to come back in on the second half. Not sure why he felt the need to phase in doing this song live but I'm glad it's behind us.
cool. So different from album version. Live vocals are much hoarser and less ethereal. Still cool though. Crowd really goes wild when he looks their way, losing all the blueish MRI mortality significance. Heh.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: ahittle on May 18, 2018, 12:03:39 PM
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I'll check your time stamp when I can but I thought Edge also sings the whoo hoo parts live, is it possible that at a moment he just let Edge carry it? I've seen that with other songs too.

I think the woo-woo parts have been pre-recorded for some time. Bono will double them as he's able to, etc. but I think they are part of the backing bed.

Some artists will use "ducking" technology - they'll sing along with safety tracks, which can be pulled out (auto or manually) as the live vox takes over the mix.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JFW on May 18, 2018, 12:15:34 PM
Was he singing in Las Vegas and The Forum?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: ahittle on May 18, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
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Bono was lip sinking LIAWHL until San Jose Night 2. he actually sung it.

Maybe heís not confident that he can hit the changes with the backing track. Itís a pretty loose song without a beat to guide him. You start a half beat too late and the whole thing  is thrown off.  Although I supposed a click track and guide could help him out.  I donít know.

Bono does not have the best timing - he can get lost in songs. Just check that recent Acrobat when he lost track of the one.  Sorry, canít remember which date it was.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: redapple129 on June 23, 2018, 07:23:28 AM
I regret to inform you that lip-syncing has very much returned. I was at night 2 in DC and not a note of LIAWHL was sung live. I suspect a large part of why getting to hear The Blackout in person didn't wow me as much as it has for everyone else was that my being upset with and disappointed in Bono spilled over into the next song.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: wons on June 23, 2018, 02:47:48 PM
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I regret to inform you that lip-syncing has very much returned. I was at night 2 in DC and not a note of LIAWHL was sung live. I suspect a large part of why getting to hear The Blackout in person didn't wow me as much as it has for everyone else was that my being upset with and disappointed in Bono spilled over into the next song.

He may be singing with a recorded track. That is not the same as lip-syncing.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: redapple129 on June 23, 2018, 10:55:30 PM
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I regret to inform you that lip-syncing has very much returned. I was at night 2 in DC and not a note of LIAWHL was sung live. I suspect a large part of why getting to hear The Blackout in person didn't wow me as much as it has for everyone else was that my being upset with and disappointed in Bono spilled over into the next song.

He may be singing with a recorded track. That is not the same as lip-syncing.

I know the difference between the sound of Bono's live voice and the voice on the record. He switched to singing over a quieter recorded track in the middle of the tour, which is perfectly fine by me; the Omaha show is a good example where you can hear the backing track peek out in the mix here and there but you're mostly hearing him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI)

Now compare that to night 2 in DC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI) Bono's live voice is nowhere to be found there.

Edit: I've gone back and compared my show to St. Louis, which is 100% a pre-recorded intro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU) Using that as a reference, there are spots where you can detect some live singing from DC; the "we have" in "And that all we have is immortality" has a little something that is his live voice on top of the recorded track. While having at least a little live singing in the mix might technically make it no longer lip-syncing, I consider hearing much, much more backing track than live singing in the mix (as opposed to San Jose and Omaha where it was mostly the live singing) something in the ballpark of lip-syncing.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: 64ac30 on June 24, 2018, 01:43:06 AM
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I regret to inform you that lip-syncing has very much returned. I was at night 2 in DC and not a note of LIAWHL was sung live. I suspect a large part of why getting to hear The Blackout in person didn't wow me as much as it has for everyone else was that my being upset with and disappointed in Bono spilled over into the next song.

He may be singing with a recorded track. That is not the same as lip-syncing.

I know the difference between the sound of Bono's live voice and the voice on the record. He switched to singing over a quieter recorded track in the middle of the tour, which is perfectly fine by me; the Omaha show is a good example where you can hear the backing track peek out in the mix here and there but you're mostly hearing him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI)

Now compare that to night 2 in DC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI) Bono's live voice is nowhere to be found there.

Edit: I've gone back and compared my show to St. Louis, which is 100% a pre-recorded intro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU) Using that as a reference, there are spots where you can detect some live singing from DC; the "we have" in "And that all we have is immortality" has a little something that is his live voice on top of the recorded track. While having at least a little live singing in the mix might technically make it no longer lip-syncing, I consider hearing much, much more backing track than live singing in the mix (as opposed to San Jose and Omaha where it was mostly the live singing) something in the ballpark of lip-syncing.


Whoawhoawhoawhoa. Heís singing over the album track. During the first few nights, he was lip syncing- not to fool but just for an act. By Los Angeles, they turned down the studio track volume and Bono started actually singing over it. He is now singing with the tracks. Since those shows were filmed, maybe they decided not to do live vocals over the album track.

Lip syncing has a very negative connotation. Bonos not trying to fool anyone. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: wons on June 24, 2018, 04:19:54 AM
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I regret to inform you that lip-syncing has very much returned. I was at night 2 in DC and not a note of LIAWHL was sung live. I suspect a large part of why getting to hear The Blackout in person didn't wow me as much as it has for everyone else was that my being upset with and disappointed in Bono spilled over into the next song.

He may be singing with a recorded track. That is not the same as lip-syncing.

I know the difference between the sound of Bono's live voice and the voice on the record. He switched to singing over a quieter recorded track in the middle of the tour, which is perfectly fine by me; the Omaha show is a good example where you can hear the backing track peek out in the mix here and there but you're mostly hearing him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dec30MlKpI)

Now compare that to night 2 in DC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvmJ8wLbDI) Bono's live voice is nowhere to be found there.

Edit: I've gone back and compared my show to St. Louis, which is 100% a pre-recorded intro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38jQW1X90dU) Using that as a reference, there are spots where you can detect some live singing from DC; the "we have" in "And that all we have is immortality" has a little something that is his live voice on top of the recorded track. While having at least a little live singing in the mix might technically make it no longer lip-syncing, I consider hearing much, much more backing track than live singing in the mix (as opposed to San Jose and Omaha where it was mostly the live singing) something in the ballpark of lip-syncing.

How much of his live voice you hear could be an issue with Joe the Soundman, ones own ears, the building, how the video or audio was recorded, or something else.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on June 24, 2018, 06:20:02 AM
So people calm down the vocals in that song are synthesized or computerized whatever itís called for effect.  So a human voice canít recreate it.  Iím sure thatís part it all this.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on June 24, 2018, 10:40:42 PM
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So people calm down the vocals in that song are synthesized or computerized whatever itís called for effect.  So a human voice canít recreate it.  Iím sure thatís part it all this.

Its just pitch processing.  It can be processed just as easily live as in the studio, or close enough. 


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on June 25, 2018, 03:58:55 AM
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So people calm down the vocals in that song are synthesized or computerized whatever itís called for effect.  So a human voice canít recreate it.  Iím sure thatís part it all this.

Its just pitch processing.  It can be processed just as easily live as in the studio, or close enough. 


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if they want to worry about that live
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 25, 2018, 06:22:33 AM
I don't see how it can be done live without screwing it up. What is easily done in playback, when live requires absolutely perfect timing by Bono (good luck with that) and in the sound booth. Our ears will hear the smallest mistakes in timing. And it can sound quite unnatural even if timing is good, whereas a lighter touch can be applied in post.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on June 25, 2018, 06:44:16 AM
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I don't see how it can be done live without screwing it up. What is easily done in playback, when live requires absolutely perfect timing by Bono (good luck with that) and in the sound booth. Our ears will hear the smallest mistakes in timing. And it can sound quite unnatural even if timing is good, whereas a lighter touch can be applied in post.

Itís done live every day.  Did you see Black-eyed Peas open on 360?  They do it routinely.  Vocal processors can pitch correct, double, harmonize real-time.  The part you are talking about in the song is double-tracked.  They could have the pitch-affected track on playback while Bono sings the ďnormalĒ voice.  They use backing tracks (as do most bands) on many of their songs.  Why would this one be any different?   And why would he be lip-synching the part that doesnít have that effect?

Iím sure there is some reason they did it.  Who knows?  Maybe it was for some artistic statement related to mortality or  feeling half gone or detached laying in an MRI.  But it wasnít anywhere near necessary for technical reasons.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: JTNash on June 25, 2018, 07:46:50 AM
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I don't see how it can be done live without screwing it up. What is easily done in playback, when live requires absolutely perfect timing by Bono (good luck with that) and in the sound booth. Our ears will hear the smallest mistakes in timing. And it can sound quite unnatural even if timing is good, whereas a lighter touch can be applied in post.

Itís done live every day.  Did you see Black-eyed Peas open on 360?  They do it routinely.  Vocal processors can pitch correct, double, harmonize real-time.  The part you are talking about in the song is double-tracked.  They could have the pitch-affected track on playback while Bono sings the ďnormalĒ voice.  They use backing tracks (as do most bands) on many of their songs.  Why would this one be any different?   And why would he be lip-synching the part that doesnít have that effect?

Iím sure there is some reason they did it.  Who knows?  Maybe it was for some artistic statement related to mortality or  feeling half gone or detached laying in an MRI.  But it wasnít anywhere near necessary for technical reasons.


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not all that black eyed peas stuff is live
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Droo on June 25, 2018, 07:52:25 AM
Bono was definitely singing live at Montreal 1. The synthy voices were from the recorded album version but the rest of it was subtly different in timing from the album.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 25, 2018, 01:12:05 PM
For everyone defending LIAWHL as being an "intro" and "not a performed song", my question is....WHY?

There's nothing about the song that would seem to necessitate a pre-recorded vocal.  Even if you need the pitch-shifted backing vocals, those can easily be part of the backing track while Bono sings the main part.  A click track in his earpiece to keep him in time, and a headset mic so he can move his hands freely are all that are needed.  I'm not incensed or anything, but I really don't get the reasoning behind it.  I'm someone who thinks, if a part CAN be played or sung live, then do it.  So it's weird to me that there's an entire song that doesn't feature any live audio, but Bono's standing there AS IF HE WOULD BE SINGING.

I also think the "intermission" track is dumb, mostly because I got excited both times to hear a beloved/rare track, only to realize it's just a pre-recording.  There may be a technical reason why it's needed, but I kind of wish they would figure out a way around it.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 25, 2018, 02:16:55 PM
I don't understand either, but I am not upset. My take is, there is some reason. Bono sounded amazing in Boston, so it wasn't an issue of him not having a voice and just faking it. He sang everything else for sure, and he sounds as good as ever.

I don't care about the recorded intermission. We could either have empty space there, or we could be entertained. I was entertained. It was extra effort on their part, not less. More bang for our buck, not less.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 25, 2018, 02:52:22 PM
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I don't understand either, but I am not upset. My take is, there is some reason. Bono sounded amazing in Boston, so it wasn't an issue of him not having a voice and just faking it. He sang everything else for sure, and he sounds as good as ever.

I don't care about the recorded intermission. We could either have empty space there, or we could be entertained. I was entertained. It was extra effort on their part, not less. More bang for our buck, not less.

To me, "more bang for my buck" would mean a song performed live, not a pre-recorded bit.  It is what it is--I at least understood what it was on this tour, as opposed to I+E where I was just kind of confused--but it just seemed an odd break in the flow of things.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 25, 2018, 03:57:41 PM
Well, that would be even more bang for your buck, but it's more than an empty intermission.

I felt like I got a full show; it wasn't too short.

I suspect Larry is our limiting factor for extra long shows. I'd rather him not do more than he can, not only for altruistic reasons, but selfishly we get more Larry and more U2 if we don't grind him to the bone.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on June 25, 2018, 04:13:30 PM
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For everyone defending LIAWHL as being an "intro" and "not a performed song", my question is....WHY?

There's nothing about the song that would seem to necessitate a pre-recorded vocal.  Even if you need the pitch-shifted backing vocals, those can easily be part of the backing track while Bono sings the main part.  A click track in his earpiece to keep him in time, and a headset mic so he can move his hands freely are all that are needed.  I'm not incensed or anything, but I really don't get the reasoning behind it.  I'm someone who thinks, if a part CAN be played or sung live, then do it.  So it's weird to me that there's an entire song that doesn't feature any live audio, but Bono's standing there AS IF HE WOULD BE SINGING.

I also think the "intermission" track is dumb, mostly because I got excited both times to hear a beloved/rare track, only to realize it's just a pre-recording.  There may be a technical reason why it's needed, but I kind of wish they would figure out a way around it.

This is why I think it was some kind of creative decision.  Its an easy song to sing.  There is no technical reason not to sing it.   The way he stands there kind of like a zombie with his hands out.  Likie heís somewhere halfway between life and death, singing along with the recording when he can.  The whole thing is odd, which makes me think its some kind of performance art.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Basskid on June 25, 2018, 04:41:49 PM
He was 100% live both nights in Boston with just the autotuned portions prerecorded of course. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on June 25, 2018, 05:43:24 PM
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For everyone defending LIAWHL as being an "intro" and "not a performed song", my question is....WHY?

There's nothing about the song that would seem to necessitate a pre-recorded vocal.  Even if you need the pitch-shifted backing vocals, those can easily be part of the backing track while Bono sings the main part.  A click track in his earpiece to keep him in time, and a headset mic so he can move his hands freely are all that are needed.  I'm not incensed or anything, but I really don't get the reasoning behind it.  I'm someone who thinks, if a part CAN be played or sung live, then do it.  So it's weird to me that there's an entire song that doesn't feature any live audio, but Bono's standing there AS IF HE WOULD BE SINGING.

I also think the "intermission" track is dumb, mostly because I got excited both times to hear a beloved/rare track, only to realize it's just a pre-recording.  There may be a technical reason why it's needed, but I kind of wish they would figure out a way around it.

This is why I think it was some kind of creative decision.  Its an easy song to sing.  There is no technical reason not to sing it.   The way he stands there kind of like a zombie with his hands out.  Likie heís somewhere halfway between life and death, singing along with the recording when he can.  The whole thing is odd, which makes me think its some kind of performance art.


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Thatís possible. If it is performance art, I wish I understood it.

I know of some similar types of things...Pink Floyd starting the Wall shows with the backup musicians in the bandís place, wearing masks as if they were the real band...but I also understand the point being made with that. With this, I feel like Iím either accusing the band of doing something inauthentic, or defending some artistic purpose I donít understand.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 25, 2018, 06:14:36 PM
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He was 100% live both nights in Boston with just the autotuned portions prerecorded of course.

On LIAWHL? I won't argue with you, but I thought I was hearing album vocals through the whole song.

If the lower register parts were live, he was sounding very smooth (smoother than the first night he sang that live, I forgot which city). But of course he sounded great all night.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: MadRob360 on June 27, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
There always seems to be some of the bands own fans wanting to shoot them down so easily nowadays  :(

we've always known there are pre recorded elements to a show. I think the lads do brilliantly, the setlist is great.

Just enjoy them while we've still got them  8)
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: garyu2 on June 28, 2018, 01:32:00 AM
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There always seems to be some of the bands own fans wanting to shoot them down so easily nowadays  :(

we've always known there are pre recorded elements to a show. I think the lads do brilliantly, the setlist is great.

Just enjoy them while we've still got them  8)

Pre-recorded elements is a little different to lip-synching. Remember just now much money people are paying for tickets/travel etc. Itís not exactly cheap.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: rlabs19 on June 28, 2018, 09:15:44 AM
Don't really understand the need for the "pre-recorded elements." If Bono is going to stand there with a microphone, he may as well just sing it. Having him lip-sync it doesn't add anything to the show.

Same with HMTMKMKM. If the intermission is only going to be one song long, just play it live. Felt the same way about The Fly on ie.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 28, 2018, 09:42:42 AM
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Don't really understand the need for the "pre-recorded elements." If Bono is going to stand there with a microphone, he may as well just sing it. Having him lip-sync it doesn't add anything to the show.

Same with HMTMKMKM. If the intermission is only going to be one song long, just play it live. Felt the same way about The Fly on ie.

I don't understand this line of thinking at all, not even a little bit. It's intermission. And you're mad that they aren't playing... during intermission? That by definition makes it not intermission. So your choice is dead air during intermission, no intermission, or an entertaining admission that forms the linchpin of the narrative.

What is the advantage of losing intermission? You want to go home 5 minutes earlier? And it's that important that our entertainers cannot gulp some water, pee, and do a costume change for 5 lousy minutes so we don't have to - horror of horrors - watch a short set to music for 5 minutes?

God, what has the world come to?

You probably would have lost your sh** watching Ben Hur back in the day. And make sure you never go to theater or opera or a concert or ballet if you can't handle intermission.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: rlabs19 on June 29, 2018, 07:21:28 AM
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Don't really understand the need for the "pre-recorded elements." If Bono is going to stand there with a microphone, he may as well just sing it. Having him lip-sync it doesn't add anything to the show.

Same with HMTMKMKM. If the intermission is only going to be one song long, just play it live. Felt the same way about The Fly on ie.

I don't understand this line of thinking at all, not even a little bit. It's intermission. And you're mad that they aren't playing... during intermission? That by definition makes it not intermission. So your choice is dead air during intermission, no intermission, or an entertaining admission that forms the linchpin of the narrative.

What is the advantage of losing intermission? You want to go home 5 minutes earlier? And it's that important that our entertainers cannot gulp some water, pee, and do a costume change for 5 lousy minutes so we don't have to - horror of horrors - watch a short set to music for 5 minutes?

God, what has the world come to?

You probably would have lost your sh** watching Ben Hur back in the day. And make sure you never go to theater or opera or a concert or ballet if you can't handle intermission.

Lol at the bold. Taking this a little far, aren't we?

All I said was that if "intermission" was only going to be 5 minutes long, and they are going to play a pre-recorded version of one of their own songs...... maybe it makes sense to not have an intermission and to continue the set. Please, tell me of a broadway show with a five minute intermission. Same with opera or ballet. Enlighten me.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on June 29, 2018, 07:46:01 AM
The bolded was sarcastic. Indeed what has the world come to! A 5 minute intermission with entertainment included! The horror! So it's you taking it a liiiiiiittle far.

It's nice that you would prefer no intermission to the hell of a 5 minute intermission telling the Experience story, but the performers have a few needs of their own. Also, there's a costume change. Talk about first world problems.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on July 01, 2018, 11:36:31 PM
Iím not sure anyoneís taking it to the degree youíre suggesting, but Iíve also added my $.02 regarding not liking the intermission. Iíd rather they play a songóin both of these tours, I got excited thinking they were going to play a rare favorite, only to be (slightly) disappointed it was just a recording. I also think it stops the flow of the concert. Iíve been to shows featuring a real intermission...thereís no question whatís happening when they occur. Those shows also tend to be a bit longer.

Just saying, if the choice is between hearing them play HMTM or Bono putting on a top hat, Iíd say leave the top hat home.

Alternatively, other bands feature a song or two that the singer can disappear during, to get through costume changes. Even U2 have done it. Have Edge do Numb while Bono changes. Or Seconds. Or VDL. Iíd take any of them.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: gottago on July 07, 2018, 12:35:01 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9KFsILqvQ

Judge for yourselves

I see it on the "Woooahoo's" but that is it. No other place. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on September 13, 2018, 12:33:49 AM
I just lost my mind for two hours trying to figure out how to count LIAWHL, and the lip-syncing totally makes sense. The song must be practically impossible to sing live. Even with a click track to keep in time, there's really no way to know when the hell to come in, for a few reasons:

1. The verses and chorus are slightly different tempos (102 bpm vs 107 bpm)
2. Lyrics don't always come in on measures, or even on beat, they just kind of float around the song and come in and out. Sometimes they're early, sometimes late.
3. Some notes are held and dragged out for long, imprecise amounts of time.
4. There are no cues in the song except the main verse/chorus chord changes...no real indication from the synths on when the vocals are supposed to come in.
5. Even the synths are sometimes a bit dodgy on what beat/measure they're changing chords on.

You can totally hear how much Bono is struggling with it if you listen to the IEM recording from San Jose with the click track (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)). I lined it up with the studio version in Audacity and Bono is all over the place, he only nails it for maybe 5 or 6 lines. And they can't really use the click track for cues because the vocals never line up with it.

Try and count it yourself! It's all in 4/4. Just remember to speed yourself up 5bpm for the choruses  :D
I'd give up and lip sync it too.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 14, 2018, 05:52:13 AM
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I just lost my mind for two hours trying to figure out how to count LIAWHL, and the lip-syncing totally makes sense. The song must be practically impossible to sing live. Even with a click track to keep in time, there's really no way to know when the hell to come in, for a few reasons:

1. The verses and chorus are slightly different tempos (102 bpm vs 107 bpm)
2. Lyrics don't always come in on measures, or even on beat, they just kind of float around the song and come in and out. Sometimes they're early, sometimes late.
3. Some notes are held and dragged out for long, imprecise amounts of time.
4. There are no cues in the song except the main verse/chorus chord changes...no real indication from the synths on when the vocals are supposed to come in.
5. Even the synths are sometimes a bit dodgy on what beat/measure they're changing chords on.

You can totally hear how much Bono is struggling with it if you listen to the IEM recording from San Jose with the click track (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)). I lined it up with the studio version in Audacity and Bono is all over the place, he only nails it for maybe 5 or 6 lines. And they can't really use the click track for cues because the vocals never line up with it.

Try and count it yourself! It's all in 4/4. Just remember to speed yourself up 5bpm for the choruses  :D
I'd give up and lip sync it too.

I get why artists that also have a dance component to their performance might lip sync certain parts.  They are performing two things at a time and sometimes dance takes precedence over vocal.  But there is no reason for a singer to just stand there and lip synch. 

The live vocal doesnít need to line up with the album recording.  I donít understand your point.  Theyíre not overlaying the performance on the album.

If a song is for any reason too technically difficult to pull off then it shouldnít be done live.  Lip-synching the first song just sets the show off wrong.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on September 15, 2018, 12:36:02 AM
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I just lost my mind for two hours trying to figure out how to count LIAWHL, and the lip-syncing totally makes sense. The song must be practically impossible to sing live. Even with a click track to keep in time, there's really no way to know when the hell to come in, for a few reasons:

1. The verses and chorus are slightly different tempos (102 bpm vs 107 bpm)
2. Lyrics don't always come in on measures, or even on beat, they just kind of float around the song and come in and out. Sometimes they're early, sometimes late.
3. Some notes are held and dragged out for long, imprecise amounts of time.
4. There are no cues in the song except the main verse/chorus chord changes...no real indication from the synths on when the vocals are supposed to come in.
5. Even the synths are sometimes a bit dodgy on what beat/measure they're changing chords on.

You can totally hear how much Bono is struggling with it if you listen to the IEM recording from San Jose with the click track (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)). I lined it up with the studio version in Audacity and Bono is all over the place, he only nails it for maybe 5 or 6 lines. And they can't really use the click track for cues because the vocals never line up with it.

Try and count it yourself! It's all in 4/4. Just remember to speed yourself up 5bpm for the choruses  :D
I'd give up and lip sync it too.

I get why artists that also have a dance component to their performance might lip sync certain parts.  They are performing two things at a time and sometimes dance takes precedence over vocal.  But there is no reason for a singer to just stand there and lip synch. 

The live vocal doesnít need to line up with the album recording.  I donít understand your point.  Theyíre not overlaying the performance on the album.

If a song is for any reason too technically difficult to pull off then it shouldnít be done live.  Lip-synching the first song just sets the show off wrong.


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My point is just that, the song is too difficult to perform live. The overlaying stuff I was talking about was just explaining how I figured out exactly how complicated the song is.

"Then they shouldn't perform it" is a fair point! They must have just valued it enough as the show opener that they didn't want to drop it.

I'm not arguing in favor of that or otherwise, my only point with this post was to explain all the ways in which performing the song live, correctly, (without totally reworking it anyway) would be damn near impossible.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 15, 2018, 02:01:06 AM
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I just lost my mind for two hours trying to figure out how to count LIAWHL, and the lip-syncing totally makes sense. The song must be practically impossible to sing live. Even with a click track to keep in time, there's really no way to know when the hell to come in, for a few reasons:

1. The verses and chorus are slightly different tempos (102 bpm vs 107 bpm)
2. Lyrics don't always come in on measures, or even on beat, they just kind of float around the song and come in and out. Sometimes they're early, sometimes late.
3. Some notes are held and dragged out for long, imprecise amounts of time.
4. There are no cues in the song except the main verse/chorus chord changes...no real indication from the synths on when the vocals are supposed to come in.
5. Even the synths are sometimes a bit dodgy on what beat/measure they're changing chords on.

You can totally hear how much Bono is struggling with it if you listen to the IEM recording from San Jose with the click track (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)). I lined it up with the studio version in Audacity and Bono is all over the place, he only nails it for maybe 5 or 6 lines. And they can't really use the click track for cues because the vocals never line up with it.

Try and count it yourself! It's all in 4/4. Just remember to speed yourself up 5bpm for the choruses  :D
I'd give up and lip sync it too.

I get why artists that also have a dance component to their performance might lip sync certain parts.  They are performing two things at a time and sometimes dance takes precedence over vocal.  But there is no reason for a singer to just stand there and lip synch. 

The live vocal doesnít need to line up with the album recording.  I donít understand your point.  Theyíre not overlaying the performance on the album.

If a song is for any reason too technically difficult to pull off then it shouldnít be done live.  Lip-synching the first song just sets the show off wrong.


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My point is just that, the song is too difficult to perform live. The overlaying stuff I was talking about was just explaining how I figured out exactly how complicated the song is.

"Then they shouldn't perform it" is a fair point! They must have just valued it enough as the show opener that they didn't want to drop it.

I'm not arguing in favor of that or otherwise, my only point with this post was to explain all the ways in which performing the song live, correctly, (without totally reworking it anyway) would be damn near impossible.

Okay. I just donít understand how its a complicated song.  It seems like a short simple little tune to me.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: ahittle on September 15, 2018, 07:37:02 AM
It's just real loose and Bono could easily get lost in the fog, mess up the changes, etc. - especially if it speeds up slightly on the chorus.

In theory, he could have a click with prompts in his ear, but he's pretty messy with timing and I guess they didn't want to risk the beginning of the show on a sloppy rendition?

It's really a shame, though - it could have been a nice vulnerable way to kick off the show.  Maybe adding the actual Bono was an afterthought - maybe the original draft was just the song and visuals and it felt too impersonal or something.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on September 15, 2018, 07:38:38 AM
Itís not complicated. They may have reasons for doing it the way they did, but ďitís too complicatedĒ is not one of them.

They also dropped it from the setlist now, so the point is moot.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on September 15, 2018, 08:08:24 AM
You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do. 
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 15, 2018, 10:30:13 AM
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on September 15, 2018, 01:56:54 PM
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Johnny Feathers on September 15, 2018, 03:44:59 PM
Not to mention, thereís no requirement to perform the song in any particular style. A beat could be added, a rhythmic part included, or something else excluded, etc. And MLK is a completely meter-less song which Bonoís done countless times.



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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 15, 2018, 04:13:41 PM
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: laoghaire on September 15, 2018, 07:38:24 PM
MLk is a great example to illustrate why LIAWHL is different. The synth changes follow Bono's vocals. So Bono can set the timing and Edge easily moves along with him. LIAWHL doesn't do that.

I mean, they lip synched. They tried and failed to do it live. Then they gave up and dropped the song. What's more likely - it's harder than you think, or they are just complete morons who can't manage a simple little song after 40 years of professiknal experience?
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: NotComingDown on September 15, 2018, 08:09:40 PM
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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You're right, the audience wouldn't really know he's off, unless they REALLY knew the song. I don't disagree with anything you're saying (except the synth not having any meter - it does, it's just hard to count and not super clear). They COULD have done a version where Bono's totally free and can sing any tempo/meter he wants. But that's not what they decided to do - for better or worse, they decided to try to recreate the album version exactly. My only point is that that's very hard to do.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 15, 2018, 08:23:43 PM
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You can insist it's easy to time the vocals to the synth changes all you want and it doesn't magically make it so.

I personally feel I could have completed that pass better than Tom Brady but maybe the experts know better than I do.

I donít think you have to be any kind of expert to not understand how singing along with a synth or a backing track is any harder than singing along with the band.  What is the difference?

Maybe the thought was that there is no drums to guide him but hey use a click track on every single song live.  That just makes no sense.

I realize this is a silly argument but it bothers me when we canít just admit U2 are human and sometimes they just do goofy things.


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Agreed, It's totally goofy! Important point though, they DID use a click track on this song and it doesn't help at all. You can hear it yourself if you check out that bootleg (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio (https://u2start.com/shows/2013/#!audio)) - the lyrics don't come in on rhythm at all, so a click track is basically useless.

I would love to understand what you are getting at.  Bono misses the click therefore its somehow a difficult song?  He just was off time.  Big deal.  Its basically a free time song.  All there is to sing to is a synth pad.  The synth pad has no meter at all.  Therefore Bono can sing any meter or tempo he wants and never be off.  Its the one song he can sing literally anyway he wants meter and tempo and never be wrong.  Heís only keeping time with himself.  The audience isnít even hearing the click.  How would they know heís off unless they have a perfect click going in their head.  Tempo and meter have no reference and the melody has a narrow range.  This is the easiest song he could sing.


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You're right, the audience wouldn't really know he's off, unless they REALLY knew the song. I don't disagree with anything you're saying (except the synth not having any meter - it does, it's just hard to count and not super clear). They COULD have done a version where Bono's totally free and can sing any tempo/meter he wants. But that's not what they decided to do - for better or worse, they decided to try to recreate the album version exactly. My only point is that that's very hard to do.
Yeah the synth has a tremelo to it but come on if he can sing to Edgeís chord changes he can sing to that.

The song is too hard just does not explain the mystery of lip synching to LIAWHL.  We may never know.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 15, 2018, 08:34:27 PM
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MLk is a great example to illustrate why LIAWHL is different. The synth changes follow Bono's vocals. So Bono can set the timing and Edge easily moves along with him. LIAWHL doesn't do that.

I mean, they lip synched. They tried and failed to do it live. Then they gave up and dropped the song. What's more likely - it's harder than you think, or they are just complete morons who can't manage a simple little song after 40 years of professiknal experience?

That is just not how a band operates and U2 is no exception.  The singer sings to the accompaniment, not the other way around.  You would end up with a train wreck with everyone trying to guess who is following who.  Everybody follows the drummer.  If there are no drums the singer will sing to the other instruments with the most rhythmic one being the leader.

Just ask yourself this if Bono can keep time to every other song, why not this one.  What is so special about it?  Any decent singer can sing to a backing track and Bono is way more experienced and polished than decent. 

Why is everyone trying to explain this as a failure of capability?  Its just the silliest thing I can think of.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: ahittle on September 16, 2018, 01:28:01 PM
I'm not really arguing one way or another, and I'm not particularly offended that he lip-synced it.  But I am fascinated by the tech behind these big productions.

The song is not one long pad. I think it's got five chords. He would have to have in-ear cues so that he could hit the changes. Obviously he routinely has these cues even when you wouldn't think they were needed. Or Terry could play it live and comp Bono, but I'm not sure why they didn't take that route.

I think there's been observation about ducked vocals in past tours? Wasn't there a Crumbs from Your Table car crash that revealed canned lead vocals mixed alongside Bono's live vocals?  A lot of these big tours will use this technique of mixing live with recorded vocals; when the singer is feeling confident, his live vocals seamlessly overtake the recorded version. But if he's not feeling it, he can sit out and lip-sync it. Obviously this is in a lot of pop music that features dancing, etc.
Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: Tortuga on September 16, 2018, 02:01:57 PM
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I'm not really arguing one way or another, and I'm not particularly offended that he lip-synced it.  But I am fascinated by the tech behind these big productions.

The song is not one long pad. I think it's got five chords. He would have to have in-ear cues so that he could hit the changes. Obviously he routinely has these cues even when you wouldn't think they were needed. Or Terry could play it live and comp Bono, but I'm not sure why they didn't take that route.

I think there's been observation about ducked vocals in past tours? Wasn't there a Crumbs from Your Table car crash that revealed canned lead vocals mixed alongside Bono's live vocals?  A lot of these big tours will use this technique of mixing live with recorded vocals; when the singer is feeling confident, his live vocals seamlessly overtake the recorded version. But if he's not feeling it, he can sit out and lip-sync it. Obviously this is in a lot of pop music that features dancing, etc.

Iím not super-offended but in the context of a rock show, the more its done the more it diminishes the authenticity of the live experience.  Its different with dance-oriented shows because people are there for the dance as much as the music and its hard for anyone to dance and sing at the same time.

Yes there are chord changes but every song has chord changes.  And it wasnít just a support track because Bono chose to make it obvious he was not actually singing.  My theory is that it was an intentional theatrical device intended to be symbolic of something...perhaps being somewhere wavering between life and death or consciousness and unconsciousness.


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Title: Re: Lip-syncing!?
Post by: pdxireland on September 26, 2018, 10:14:16 PM
Bono been using live auto-tune for years!
You can limit the correction so it sounds less treated and not metallicĒ
Just about every U2 song is 20-50% backing track with click track, fill, sequencing, and fill.
Real live gigs for most bands are long dead!
fmg