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U2 => Tours => Topic started by: Nagrom99 on July 09, 2009, 10:13:28 PM

Title: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Nagrom99 on July 09, 2009, 10:13:28 PM
sleezy, dirty, aggressive, cocky...and by far the best u2 tour of all time.  "The Claw"....it's great, but it doesn't beet Bono 'slinking on stage" to the 91 Z00 arena tour......Life changing.
Title: Has Bono lost his appeal, grace, sexuality, rock god....?
Post by: Nagrom99 on July 09, 2009, 10:33:59 PM
Watch Zoo......then this, he's my greatest idol...but has he lost the F'u attitude of ZOO.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: highway190 on July 10, 2009, 12:23:11 AM
At least we aren't being subjected to the boring, non-running, bad-voiced Bono of Vertigo though.
I'm happy with the Bono we're seeing so far.
You've got a point though, drunk ZooTV Bono would rock lol.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: mbeano on July 10, 2009, 03:11:59 AM
As much as I agree and LOVE 90s U2 and especially ZooTV and also view that whole 90s period as a lifechanging ongoing piece of art...  I would never want them to repeat and go back.  They are different, they are older, thier music is different, I am different I am older... Im not in my teens anymore and things like coolness, attitude, anger, pi**ed off emtions do far less for me (not saying that ZOOTV was only these things, of course not), and things like commitment, soul, subtlety nakedness, willingness to stick your neck and viewpoint out in the open, putting it all out there, mean far more to me now.  They are things that I would not have appreciated as much at a younger age.

I sill see ZooTV/Achtung/Zoooropa/Pop  as life altering mindopening visionary works.   But art should also be genuine and reflcet your current state and your view of the workd you currently live in.  That 90s world is not the same.  These albums are still more than relevant... they are more relevant than any of the music being put out today by bands other than U2.  But I also see NLOTH as far more relevant to me now.  The masks, characters, and attitude of those days that is the part that isnt as relevant.The songs and the core of the tour still are.

That is my take

Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Nielsen on July 10, 2009, 03:15:27 AM
As much as I want to see a more fun Bono, I grew up liking this Bono we have now. I honestly don't want Bono to go into crazy overrdrive mode and a 49 year old rockstar still acting like a 27 year old is just odd. Example: Jagger.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: indiansummer on July 10, 2009, 05:04:23 AM
have any of you guys seen the show yet ??
Going to my first on Wed in Nice and judging by the boots, vids, reviews it's going to be on another planet compared to Zoo TV. As groundbreaking as Zoo Tv was , at that time I didn't really enjoy it as much as I do looking back. The whole Zoo extravangza was totally at odds with the halycon JT era, I'm sure there were a lot of other fans who saw Zoo who thought WTF at the time as they were used to minimal sets and the show was only about the music. When's it's all over I think the 360 tour will be known as their best !
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: yahweh on July 10, 2009, 06:38:40 AM
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have any of you guys seen the show yet ??
Going to my first on Wed in Nice and judging by the boots, vids, reviews it's going to be on another planet compared to Zoo TV. As groundbreaking as Zoo Tv was , at that time I didn't really enjoy it as much as I do looking back. The whole Zoo extravangza was totally at odds with the halycon JT era, I'm sure there were a lot of other fans who saw Zoo who thought WTF at the time as they were used to minimal sets and the show was only about the music. When's it's all over I think the 360 tour will be known as their best !


Agreed.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Nagrom99 on July 10, 2009, 08:38:59 AM
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have any of you guys seen the show yet ??
Going to my first on Wed in Nice and judging by the boots, vids, reviews it's going to be on another planet compared to Zoo TV. As groundbreaking as Zoo Tv was , at that time I didn't really enjoy it as much as I do looking back. The whole Zoo extravangza was totally at odds with the halycon JT era, I'm sure there were a lot of other fans who saw Zoo who thought WTF at the time as they were used to minimal sets and the show was only about the music. When's it's all over I think the 360 tour will be known as their best !


I guarantee it won't.  The songs from No Line do not have the impact that the songs from Achtung did at the time.  It might be the biggest grossing, but judging what I've seen thus far, Claw or no Claw, it doesn't hold a candle to ZOO.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: LOGAN B on July 10, 2009, 08:52:51 AM
Dude stop living in the past. Embrace the future. That ZOOTV attitude is no longer relevant. This ain't the 90's its not even the 00's anymore. If you don't think 360 is as good as ZOOtv then don't go. Stay in your room watching the Zootv Dvd over and over. The rest of us want to give the future a big kiss.  :)
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: U2Pride on July 10, 2009, 08:58:54 AM
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As much as I want to see a more fun Bono, I grew up liking this Bono we have now. I honestly don't want Bono to go into crazy overrdrive mode and a 49 year old rockstar still acting like a 27 year old is just odd. Example: Jagger.

I 100% agree with Nielsen. As long as I've been a fan for (only a year and a half) this is the Bono that I've known and loved. I've seen all of the past videos and pictures and such and it would be kind of strange if he did just turn around and go back to ZooTv mode and such. And since he is 49 and if he tried to act younger that sort of unattracts the younger audience because they'll think, oh just a bunch of old farts wishing they were young again. So I think that where they are now is where they should be.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: evilways811 on July 10, 2009, 10:06:35 AM
I agree and disagree.

Zoo/Achtung Baby Bono was cool, arrogant, ironic etc. The shades, the clothes, the cherub cigars, he was the epitome of the rock & roll star. But you gotta understand that was nearly 18 years ago. He was still young, reckless and was just getting a taste of the big fame pie. It was like giving a child all this power and he knows he can use it and exploit it, even a bit mischieviously, so of course he was larger than life. Do I miss it? Yeah, but it still lives in my memories, pics, and concert footage.

Now he's older, a bit wiser, and has a bigger family under his wing, so of course his outlook and attitude towards things are different. Back then Bono was sorta like day & night, he put on the fly shades and attitude for interviews, shows and gigs, then went home and led the normal life, nowadays the line is more blurred and we get just regular old Bono on stage. The father, the activist, the poet and the rock star.

I remember hearing that MacPhisto was The Fly after he got old, washed up and tired like the average pop star. Well, now we get The Fly after he's old, and settled down with his family.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: BonoBeatle on July 10, 2009, 10:34:05 AM
ZOO TV wasnt the greatest show on earth but it was definetly in the top one!! Hehe!
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: highway190 on July 10, 2009, 10:59:00 AM
This Bono=Popmart/Elevation Bono
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Mark0930 on July 10, 2009, 11:04:36 AM
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Dude stop living in the past. Embrace the future. That ZOOTV attitude is no longer relevant. This ain't the 90's its not even the 00's anymore.


I've been lucky enough to catch every tour since Unforgettable Fire in the 80's.  I loved the Zoo TV show but this is where U2 is at for 2009/2010.  Enjoy what they are bringing to the masses.  They are still one of the best live acts out there if not THE best.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: U2Pride on July 10, 2009, 11:22:18 AM
Well said, Mark, they definately do rock the live stage  :)
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 10, 2009, 11:39:52 AM
The great thing about the Zoo TV/Zooropa shows was the new material from Achtung Baby was so great.  The new songs eclipsing the old warhorses made those shows what they were.  In comparison one cannot imagine U2 opening 360 with 7 or 8 songs from NLOTH since the material is just not strong enough.   But the reality is that is in the past and we all live in the present.     
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: m2 on July 10, 2009, 01:17:11 PM
Quote
has he lost the F'u attitude of ZOO

I find it pretty embarrassing when 50-year-old men try to act like they did at 30. Let the man age as gracefully as he can, and try to enjoy what he is now, rather than what he isn't.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: LaughingGas on July 10, 2009, 01:32:53 PM
Agreed.  Zootv shows were flippen awesome!  I will never forget hearing G.Bush Sr. saying, "We will...we will....rock you."  My life changed after those words.  As much as I would love for Doc Brown to show up in his time machine and take me back to that concert, it ain't gonna happen.  Just be happy the band are still together and playing great music today, I know I am. :)
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 10, 2009, 03:17:47 PM
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Quote
has he lost the F'u attitude of ZOO

I find it pretty embarrassing when 50-year-old men try to act like they did at 30. Let the man age as gracefully as he can, and try to enjoy what he is now, rather than what he isn't.

Funnily I have always viewed Bono and the boys as ageless.  They don't seem any older today than 18 years ago.  Their knees probably ache more though.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Achtungbaby23 on July 10, 2009, 05:31:53 PM
For all you big Zoo Fans (and any U2fan) if you haven't read Until the End of the World yet, you absolutely must.  I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but it's worth mentioning again.  I've been wanting to read it again.  You can get a used copy off of Amazon for a cheap price.  It's written by a guy, Bill Flanagan, that has all access to them during the Zoo tour.  The inside look at their life on the road during my all time favorite tour is fantastic!  Heres the link to Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/U2-End-World-Bill-Flanagan/dp/0385311575/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247268583&sr=1-2
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Achtung40Life on July 10, 2009, 07:17:42 PM
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As much as I agree and LOVE 90s U2 and especially ZooTV and also view that whole 90s period as a lifechanging ongoing piece of art...  I would never want them to repeat and go back.  They are different, they are older, thier music is different, I am different I am older... Im not in my teens anymore and things like coolness, attitude, anger, pi**ed off emtions do far less for me (not saying that ZOOTV was only these things, of course not), and things like commitment, soul, subtlety nakedness, willingness to stick your neck and viewpoint out in the open, putting it all out there, mean far more to me now.  They are things that I would not have appreciated as much at a younger age.

I sill see ZooTV/Achtung/Zoooropa/Pop  as life altering mindopening visionary works.   But art should also be genuine and reflcet your current state and your view of the workd you currently live in.  That 90s world is not the same.  These albums are still more than relevant... they are more relevant than any of the music being put out today by bands other than U2.  But I also see NLOTH as far more relevant to me now.  The masks, characters, and attitude of those days that is the part that isnt as relevant.The songs and the core of the tour still are.

That is my take



I completely agree, but when you listen to Ultraviolet, you can't help but think 'they just don't do it like they used to'
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: highway190 on July 11, 2009, 12:45:18 AM
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For all you big Zoo Fans (and any U2fan) if you haven't read Until the End of the World yet, you absolutely must.  I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but it's worth mentioning again.  I've been wanting to read it again.  You can get a used copy off of Amazon for a cheap price.  It's written by a guy, Bill Flanagan, that has all access to them during the Zoo tour.  The inside look at their life on the road during my all time favorite tour is fantastic!  Heres the link to Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/U2-End-World-Bill-Flanagan/dp/0385311575/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247268583&sr=1-2

Hahaha! You're right, its what a lot of people (especially the newer fans) miss out on. Don't quote too much from it on the official forum though, they don't like to be reminded their "gods" are human.   ;D

The profanity, the story about Bono waking up in whats basically a crack-house one day, the Clinton story, the TRUE Adam story, the studio fighting...its all there.
At The End of the World should have been the template for the official band bio, not that glossed over thing they put out themselves.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Evil Bono on July 11, 2009, 02:55:46 PM
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sleezy, dirty, aggressive, cocky...and by far the best u2 tour of all time.  "The Claw"....it's great, but it doesn't beet Bono 'slinking on stage" to the 91 Z00 arena tour......Life changing.

Yes its not Zoo TV that's because they never said they where going to recreate Zoo TV or any other past tour.  Zoo TV was great but that's in the past, let it go. 
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: DulmoU2 on July 11, 2009, 03:01:30 PM
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As much as I want to see a more fun Bono, I grew up liking this Bono we have now. I honestly don't want Bono to go into crazy overrdrive mode and a 49 year old rockstar still acting like a 27 year old is just odd. Example: Jagger.

very much agreed
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: m2 on July 11, 2009, 10:39:03 PM
Quote
Funnily I have always viewed Bono and the boys as ageless.  They don't seem any older today than 18 years ago.  Their knees probably ache more though.

I'd agree with ya if you'd said "timeless." But certainly not ageless. Their music and Bono's lyrics are very much reflections of their current station in life. They couldn't make an Achtung Baby today, and they couldn't have made NLOTH 20 years ago. One of the things I love most about U2 is that -- almost without exception -- they've remained true to themselves artistically. I don't always like every song/album, I don't always relate to every song/album, but I believe what they've created over the years has been generally true to themselves.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: DGordon1 on July 12, 2009, 05:32:52 AM
I don't know what people want. It would be uber-lame and totally embarassing if they tried to recreate ZooTV. That tour will probably be the band's definitive tour, but the moment is over. That's no fault of the band, times change. Just be grateful they're still putting on the best shows in the World.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: nolinehere on July 12, 2009, 08:21:22 AM
Just my 2c here, but I believe when people say "it's not zoo" or "it's not popmart", they don't mean the band would physically recreate the staging/props/costumes etc of those tours.

I believe they mean in terms of creating an intelligent stage show and concept which is closely aligned with the message(s) of those albums.

In terms of technical accomplishment i'm sure it's every bit the equal of those tours, but in terms of creating an overall experience aligned with the music and the fans, it appears to be distinctly second rate.

It's like something Kiss would do - "look at us. this is bigger, brighter and flashier than (insert band's name here) stage"

Reminds me a bit of Bowie's 'Glass spider' Tour taken to extreme





Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: yahweh on July 13, 2009, 06:33:19 AM
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The great thing about the Zoo TV/Zooropa shows was the new material from Achtung Baby was so great.  The new songs eclipsing the old warhorses made those shows what they were.  In comparison one cannot imagine U2 opening 360 with 7 or 8 songs from NLOTH since the material is just not strong enough.   But the reality is that is in the past and we all live in the present.     

Well that's interesting when they are currently playing 7 songs out of NLOTH album. :D So what is not strong for you. To me NLOTH songs are much stronger live than AB ones. It depends on individual taste, but these new songs speak to me emotionally a lot more than AB ones TODAY. Except for One, Ultraviolet and Trying to throw your Arms, the rest of them do not connect to our time anymore, imo. In fact, the superficial 90's era seems to look like the exact opposite to that we're living in right now. We're much closer to the seriousness of U2's 80's music.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: in_eden on July 13, 2009, 09:16:43 AM
You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: cinders on July 13, 2009, 09:26:24 AM
well I'm really going to upset you now. I HATED the zooTV era. I bowed out and stopped following them in the 90's. I cringed when I saw BOno as Macphisto and cringed when i  saw them dressed up for the Discotteque video. perhaps I'm just older and more staid than you lot. But U2 to me ar when they're more traditional. I loved HTDaaB and vertigo for being U2 albums. i cnat stand popousness- ok shoot me down
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: donvalley360 on July 13, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
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Dude stop living in the past. Embrace the future. That ZOOTV attitude is no longer relevant. This ain't the 90's its not even the 00's anymore. If you don't think 360 is as good as ZOOtv then don't go. Stay in your room watching the Zootv Dvd over and over. The rest of us want to give the future a big kiss.  :)


 ;D  ;D
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Nielsen on July 13, 2009, 09:30:24 AM
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well I'm really going to upset you now. I HATED the zooTV era. I bowed out and stopped following them in the 90's. I cringed when I saw BOno as Macphisto and cringed when i  saw them dressed up for the Discotteque video. perhaps I'm just older and more staid than you lot. But U2 to me ar when they're more traditional. I loved HTDaaB and vertigo for being U2 albums. i cnat stand popousness- ok shoot me down

Ironically, launches an atomic bomb at Cinders' direction :P
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: yahweh on July 13, 2009, 10:12:25 AM
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: wrldchamps04 on July 13, 2009, 11:06:02 AM
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As much as I want to see a more fun Bono, I grew up liking this Bono we have now. I honestly don't want Bono to go into crazy overrdrive mode and a 49 year old rockstar still acting like a 27 year old is just odd. Example: Jagger.
I'd like Bono, to be Bono....whatever he feels at the moment.......as for Jagger...he's absolutely toned down, thru the years......and was the best Rock n Roll frontman (not best singer etc) of all time...in my opinion.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: in_eden on July 13, 2009, 11:58:05 AM
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

False interpetation?
Wow. So you are THE authority then?
Both ZOO and POP were gaudy over the top slap in the face obvious social commentary.
360 is about closeness, and maybe spirituality... but it is NO WAY the total presentation that ZooTV or Popmart was. ZooTV had characters... uniforms... Popmart had fake muscles and theming elludint to McDonalds and K-mart.
ZooTV and Popmart were satire, a commentary on society. The staging and imagry all tied together to lead to a common theme.
360 is something else entirely. Sure there is the desmond tutu speech... and Bono's pontification prior to One, but it's nowhere near as overtly stylized as ZooTV or Popmart.
360 is a concert on an amazing stage.
ZooTV and Popmart were SHOWS that included the stage as part of an over-all theme.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: yahweh on July 13, 2009, 01:18:53 PM
Of course both are totally different, just like these two decades are totally different, that's the point, one is a stylish satire, the other is an ethereal symbolism, in other words the meaning is hidden and you have to work for it to get it.

btw, im not the authority, im not Bono ;D i just see the purpose of this tour as it was intended.   
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: markreed on July 13, 2009, 03:52:17 PM
I cringe when I see Bono waving a white flag or lecturing me about poverty. I KNOW POVERTY IS BAD. I prefer it when U2 mess with the medium and have fun instead of po-faced hectoring.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: rlj1010 on July 13, 2009, 04:23:33 PM
It ain't the 80's anymore either, but that sure as hell doesn't stop them performing I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Angel of Harlem, The Unforgettable Fire, Sunday Bloody Sunday, Pride, MLK, Where the Streets Have No Name, With Or Without You, etc on a nightly basis.

I don't think anybody really wants Zoo TV Part Two....  we just want some of the adventurous spirit that inhabited those 90s albums in the current stage show...   Because the way it is, its all songs from the 80s, or songs that came out in the 2000's which sound like they could have been released in the 80s.


Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: StrongGirl on July 13, 2009, 08:00:21 PM
I don't know-it seems the popular attitude here is that the Zoo TV era was the be all / end all for U2. Don't get me wrong here - 90's U2 were amazing and exciting but for those of you too young to remember-80's U2 were just as exciting for its time in a very different way of course. Those early years were nothing short of spectacular for those of us who were lucky enough to experience the beginning  and the break out of this band.  I think those years get dismissed very easily by many here but as I have said numerous times before-that has a lot to do with our ages and when we first discovered this band. Of course there will always be exceptions but that is what  I think holds true here.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: whitewave on July 14, 2009, 05:48:40 AM
No it is not Zoo it is No Line. Zoo was good, I would not want them to repeat Zoo.  It is a case of that was then this is now.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: aurabender on July 14, 2009, 06:22:32 PM
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 
think this interpretation of the 360 Tour is spot on. I follows what the band has been saying  out loud ince NLOTH. I often though The Claw was more of a Cathedral than a claw. However, I do think the band's execution of The Zoo era was much better that what we have seen iwth 360.....so far.  The stage is a work of art (in the round or not) that is totally underused. (Watching the opening of Streets is like watching a bottle rocket with a wet fuse.) The beauty and slight of hand that was Zoo would all be lost if it was just redone again. However i do think the band is having to learn that to climb out of arena mode into the stadium, you do have to be a bit over the top. In other words, if you are going to fill a stadium and you want to put little red lights on your jacket ...don't just do the sleeves.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Darkstar on July 15, 2009, 12:40:56 AM
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Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Put down the bong, or a least quit bogarting it.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: DGordon1 on July 15, 2009, 04:19:53 AM
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Pretty sanctimonious tone you have there :p No doubt the 360 Tour is spectacular and uplifting, but it's not a piece of art in the way that ZooTV was. I fear you're kidding yourself if you think it is more complex than ZooTV. Still a wonderful tour though.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: nolinehere on July 15, 2009, 07:20:00 AM
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You can't really compare ZooTV and POPMART to 360, or Elevation or Vertigo for that matter...
The 90's tours were as much social commentary and a living breathing piece of performance art (media obsession, pop art kitsch, television, sattelites, war, European Union... etc.). The electronic media was exploding and U2 were at the cutting edge of it.
The Claw is a massive and rediculous piece of staging, but it wasn't meant to BE anything other than an amazing show piece. The staging of both ZooTV and Popmart were meant to be a part of the overall meaning, like the backdrops in a play.
360 will be a great tour, no doubt. Some of the best concerts ever.
But the 90s tours were MEANT to be more than "just concerts". They were supposed to say something. About technology. About Media. About commercialism. About US.
Their effectiveness is debatable, but I do believe that there is a conceptual difference there that makes them impossible to properly compare.


Another false interpretation. Interesting that only with the passing time people were able to properly understand the concepts of the previous tours, because clearly at the time people were very confused. Did you even realize that 360 tour has a very meaningful almost philosophical, religious and most importantly symbolical conception??? The whole thing is a social statement of the things happening right now in the world. It's meant as a temple or a place to find and worship the sound, in other words - the faith, new way to life, and so forth. It's concept suggests the future basically. This whole thing is soooo extremely complex about seeing things that are out there but hard to see. Well, welcome to the spiritual world, because that's what this tour/songs are about. The 90's era was superficial, as well as their tour concepts, this one is much deeper. For example, the whole spaceship is a symbol of a higher entity, most probably a God. And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them. The whole intimacy between the band and the audience is virtually in direct contrast to the abstractness of the ZOOTv and POPMART, at least to me it reflects our time when we should stick together, being equal everyone and so forth. This tour is not about style, but about humanity or spirituality, which is always harder to see, you have to feel it.

 

Pretty sanctimonious tone you have there :p No doubt the 360 Tour is spectacular and uplifting, but it's not a piece of art in the way that ZooTV was. I fear you're kidding yourself if you think it is more complex than ZooTV. Still a wonderful tour though.

To me it looks like the claw separates the band from a huge part of the audience more than Zoo ever did. Then there's the B-stage, definitely brought the band closer. No enclosures, no separating ellipses, just the band laid bare in the middle of the stadium. Now THAT was a lot more 360 than 360.

Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: Vervefloyd on July 15, 2009, 11:36:17 PM
"And the construction of the stage (how the band is basically all over the place) is meant as a way of showing us things that are around us all the time but we don't see them."

And the set list is their way of reminding us of how many of their songs they flat out refuse to play or practice.  This isnt the satirical days of the 90's or the we want to remain the biggest band in the world of the early to mid 2000's, this is about 2009.  And U2 can make a stage that goes a mile high and 5000 football fields wide, but they forgot one important ingredient in 2009, the fans know the set list before you hit the stage, even the casual fans.  Read the reviews, they are astonishing.  Ive read stuff that says wait for the DVD or i'm only going to one show not because of money but because it's the same show save one or two songs.  This tour is only a few shows in and already its dragging.  U2 reinventing themselves in this modern era has nothing to do with elaborate stadium concerts it has to do with U2 getting that reckless abandon back.  Many bands have fallen apart and become greatest hits bands because they hold onto certain songs and put way too much weight into a song because it got released as a single and got radio airplay.  There is no factual evidence that With Or Without You is a better song than Red Hill Mining Town.  Absolutely none at all.  Red Hill Mining Town was never given the chance to be the song With Or Without You became because of the dynamics of singles and radio airplay.  Here is U2's chance to start over.  If reversed and Red Hill Mining Town had been released as planned instead of I still Haven't Found, then that would be a classic I guarantee it.  All songs are created equal.  Springsteen sure figured it out.  Up through his 1996 solo Tom Goad tour, his sets were very static for most of his career.  Granted he played 3 hours, but very static.  Then in 1999 when the E Street Band got together everything changed and he embraced the culture and embraced his back catalog almost all of it.  U2 wrote their songs, they should be able to play them all.

And if they did, that gigantic waste of money, the claw, would feel like a tapestry backdrop in a club and U2 would get back to doing what they did at the beginning.  Playing their songs not just the 7 new ones and the ones played time and time again.

And this is how you top Zoo TV.  You can't ever touch that tour by trying to be bigger.  You touch that tour by embracing your catalog that god knows U2 spent forever writing.  You would think after all that time and effort that went into writing those songs you wouldn't want to just trash them and never play them live again.
Title: Re: it's just not ZOO....
Post by: DulmoU2 on July 16, 2009, 12:30:33 AM
i was just thinking....thank god its not ZOO!!! because if it was...then they would not have been so inovative! (big word) i get where ur coming from i really do, and after only 7 or 8 shows i garantee they are still getting the feel and getting used to the stage and how it workes and rotates and all because i mean, its a big thing!!! but once tey get the hang of it and it becomes natural im sure we'll have no complaints.