@U2 Forum

U2 => Tours => Topic started by: dferrier on July 22, 2009, 07:38:04 PM

Title: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: dferrier on July 22, 2009, 07:38:04 PM
Just listening to the podcast All Songs Considered (NPR), wrap up show of South by Southwest. 

While discussing performances enhanced by prerecorded music, Carrie Brownstein made the assertion that U2 had a whole band under the stage and she preferred prerecorded extra music to this.

I know that U2 have used a least a keyboardist and may have, many years passed, may have used more than that, and that they also use triggered loops.  But is she correct, do they really have a 'another band beneath the stage"?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 22, 2009, 08:05:04 PM
I haven't noticed any guitar parts that haven't come from Edge or Bono, which is the main concern. I can't imagine what they might have down there except keyboards and percussion.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Joe90usa on July 22, 2009, 08:17:30 PM
They've used guitar and keyboard support from under the stage for years.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: dferrier on July 22, 2009, 08:18:44 PM
Can you be more specific?  Is it techie or actual performers?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Joe90usa on July 22, 2009, 08:30:15 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Can you be more specific?  Is it techie or actual performers?

Performers.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 22, 2009, 08:32:27 PM
I've always suspected Bono isn't actually playing =P
In all seriousness, I'm curious to know where they use the extra guitar.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: DulmoU2 on July 22, 2009, 11:12:54 PM
this sounds a little far fetched to me....maybe keyboards and maybe dallas plays some tunes but...how could u keep up with Bonos live changes if ur nor on stage with him seeing him and feeling him

please dont say through a screen....because...u just cant
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 22, 2009, 11:32:50 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
this sounds a little far fetched to me....maybe keyboards and maybe dallas plays some tunes but...how could u keep up with Bonos live changes if ur nor on stage with him seeing him and feeling him

please dont say through a screen....because...u just cant

You probably could, especially if the guitar in question is in the background or relatively nonessential. Still interested in hearing some official source on this....

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: satellitedog01 on July 23, 2009, 02:42:49 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You probably could, especially if the guitar in question is in the background or relatively nonessential. Still interested in hearing some official source on this....

-Nick

HAHAHAHAHA official information on this?! I don't think they want us to know... It'd be a bit like adding the faces of the sculptors of the presidential portraits at Mt. Rushmore to the hillside as well.

More seriously, I'd prefer if there'd be only prerecorded music, it wouldn't look so much like cheating.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: miami on July 23, 2009, 03:31:51 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
this sounds a little far fetched to me....maybe keyboards and maybe dallas plays some tunes but...how could u keep up with Bonos live changes if ur nor on stage with him seeing him and feeling him

please dont say through a screen....because...u just cant

 there is a keyboardist and guitar player beneath/at side of the stage. it is like a bunker which cant really be seen from the crowd's perspective, but there is a narrow gap where the extra musicians can see EVERYTHING that goes on up on the stage, so they can indeed follow bono's impromptu moments, and adapt accordingly. have a look at the bonus dvd that comes with the elevation tour. all is revealed there.

the guitar help isn't over-used. the most obvious usage is during the zoo tv/pop era performances of bullet, where there are distinctly 2 guitars being played throughout, with only the edge playing visibly onstage.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Vervefloyd on July 23, 2009, 05:10:08 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I haven't noticed any guitar parts that haven't come from Edge or Bono, which is the main concern. I can't imagine what they might have down there except keyboards and percussion.

-Nick

There are a lot of songs that have a second guitar going live when bono doesn't have one strapped on.  Gone I think used a prerecorded section for the screetching guitar intro as edge played mostly the chords live.  They try not to make it too obvious which is why staring at the sun never made it as a full band song.  i don't think bono could play that acoustic part along with the band allowing edge to play the electric.  now acoustic bono did that simple riff while edge played the chords.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: in_eden on July 23, 2009, 10:18:40 AM
The band stopping one in the opener show that there are at least a live keyboard player and a live guitarist playing along. Loops don't try to figure out where Bono is and change chords before stopping all together when Bono says "stop playing".
The strings are on keys, and there is a guitar lick under the verse that no one on stage has ever played.
Since ZooTV there has been more than you see going on. I'm sure there have been additional precussion since Mofo... but the drums may be pre-recorded loops as they are pretty much always the intro for the song (mofo on Popmart- Bomgo Crazy here)
When you record such layered music, you have to make a choice- strip it down live or bring extra hands.
They don't "strip it down" very well-
So...
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: PROJ2823 on July 23, 2009, 10:45:49 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Just listening to the podcast All Songs Considered (NPR), wrap up show of South by Southwest. 

While discussing performances enhanced by prerecorded music, Carrie Brownstein made the assertion that U2 had a whole band under the stage and she preferred prerecorded extra music to this.

I know that U2 have used a least a keyboardist and may have, many years passed, may have used more than that, and that they also use triggered loops.  But is she correct, do they really have a 'another band beneath the stage"?

All recent DVD's have credits for one Additional Musician, Terry Lawless (http://www.terrylawless.com/resume.html). I do not think other people are involved, as TL is also a MIDI programmer, so he can actually play multiple parts at the same time.
I've never really understood why they do not put Terry on stage, as it is common for bands to have additional personel live.



Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: satellitedog01 on July 23, 2009, 11:16:11 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Just listening to the podcast All Songs Considered (NPR), wrap up show of South by Southwest. 

While discussing performances enhanced by prerecorded music, Carrie Brownstein made the assertion that U2 had a whole band under the stage and she preferred prerecorded extra music to this.

I know that U2 have used a least a keyboardist and may have, many years passed, may have used more than that, and that they also use triggered loops.  But is she correct, do they really have a 'another band beneath the stage"?

All recent DVD's have credits for one Additional Musician, Terry Lawless (http://www.terrylawless.com/resume.html). I do not think other people are involved, as TL is also a MIDI programmer, so he can actually play multiple parts at the same time.
I've never really understood why they do not put Terry on stage, as it is common for bands to have additional personel live.






Hmm... Why would they do that?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: PROJ2823 on July 23, 2009, 11:23:53 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
the guitar help isn't over-used. the most obvious usage is during the zoo tv/pop era performances of bullet, where there are distinctly 2 guitars being played throughout, with only the edge playing visibly onstage.
If you look at the DVD from the Paris concert just before the break for the Solo, you can see Edge trigger the additional chords by one of his pedals. I don't think that there is an additional guitar player for edge parts, although loops have clearly been used, eg in Gone and MOFO.  
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: wrldchamps04 on July 23, 2009, 11:25:13 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Just listening to the podcast All Songs Considered (NPR), wrap up show of South by Southwest. 

While discussing performances enhanced by prerecorded music, Carrie Brownstein made the assertion that U2 had a whole band under the stage and she preferred prerecorded extra music to this.

I know that U2 have used a least a keyboardist and may have, many years passed, may have used more than that, and that they also use triggered loops.  But is she correct, do they really have a 'another band beneath the stage"?

All recent DVD's have credits for one Additional Musician, Terry Lawless (http://www.terrylawless.com/resume.html). I do not think other people are involved, as TL is also a MIDI programmer, so he can actually play multiple parts at the same time.
I've never really understood why they do not put Terry on stage, as it is common for bands to have additional personel live.






Hmm... Why would they do that?
why wouldn't they do that? to keep people from seeing what most of us already know? It's such common practice these days (Eagles,Stones, Fleetwood Mac etc.), what's the big deal? The extra(s) musician(s) stand off to the side/back and out of the "spotlight" anyway.....honestly makes no difference to me either way
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: PROJ2823 on July 23, 2009, 11:28:25 AM
Hmm... Why would they do that?
[/quote]

You mean, why would they put him on stage? Why hide him? I've seen for eg. at Muse concerts some one at the back of the stage straps on a guitar to play some parts, same for other bands where there is a keybord at the side of the stage where a non-core member jumps in for some parts.
Risk is that people who hear something that is actually not played by the band, think that everything is pre-recorded or played by "a band under the stage".      
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: uridahsee on July 23, 2009, 11:31:58 AM
The moon landing was staged. LOL
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: chadp123 on July 23, 2009, 12:49:45 PM
terry had a big part in playing OOTS live.  here is a pic of him, right off to the side of the stage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/u2logcom/26409526/

saw on some other sites that terry has a big part in unknown caller on the 360 tour
http://u2.interference.com/f304/bono-introduces-terry-lawless-during-uc-198960.html
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: The Wanderer on July 23, 2009, 01:16:03 PM
I have posted this question before, but how would people feel if there was a backing band on stage? 

You know that U2 tries to recreate the studio sound and atmosphere of a songs..and you also know that many of thier songs, especially on this album, are greater than 4 people.  Eno and Lanois, and others contributed a lot.  But to recreate the u2 sound, you need a backing band and to have loops and samples.   Woudl you prefer the back-up band be on stage, or hidden?  The Eagles have a 12 piece band with horns and strings and drums and back-up singers.  Do we want that at a U2 show?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: wrldchamps04 on July 23, 2009, 01:17:36 PM
wouldn't bother me at all.......
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 23, 2009, 03:00:54 PM
Well it's impossible for a 4 piece band(if you include Bono on guitar) to recreate live on stage the sounds that are necessary to embellish the songs to anywhere near what they sound like on record.  U2 have the choice to use additional musicians offstage, e.g Dallas Schoo on rhythm guitar, and sequencers or augment the basic band with additional musicians on stage.   U2 have decided long ago to only be a 4 piece band on stage with the exception of part of the Lovetown show and they are too set in their ways to change now.  Of course this means they are not strictly a 'live' band in the technical sense but hey who's complaining.  Fortunately U2 don't need to utilise a brass section since there are not many horns arrangements in their repertoire.   The Rolling Stones for instance have a fully augmented band on stage with them with up to 10 more players and backing singers and they sound great live also.  I think U2 made the right decision long ago to be an exclusive stage presence while not compromising their fantastic sound live in concert.     
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: kristbg on July 23, 2009, 05:21:30 PM
Wow, I knew about Terry, but I didn't think there was also a guitar player (Dallas?)... I thought the guitar parts were prerecorded loops controlled by Terry, or by Edge himself.

I wouldn't mind if Terry was up in the stage with the boys. It sounds a bit more "sincere" (for lack of a better word).
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: evilways811 on July 23, 2009, 06:20:48 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hmm... Why would they do that?

You mean, why would they put him on stage? Why hide him? I've seen for eg. at Muse concerts some one at the back of the stage straps on a guitar to play some parts, same for other bands where there is a keybord at the side of the stage where a non-core member jumps in for some parts.
Risk is that people who hear something that is actually not played by the band, think that everything is pre-recorded or played by "a band under the stage".      

That'll be Morgan Nicholls, he's the unofficial 4th member of Muse. He plays keybords, synths, and guitar whenever there's a song where Matt Bellamy has to play the big piano. They show him off with no shame.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 23, 2009, 08:41:33 PM
So far I'm still not hearing anything besides prerecorded guitar effects / noises (like beginning of UTEOTW), percussion, and keys.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: aurabender on July 23, 2009, 11:37:52 PM
this is very disheartening to me.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Vervefloyd on July 24, 2009, 04:01:53 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Well it's impossible for a 4 piece band(if you include Bono on guitar) to recreate live on stage the sounds that are necessary to embellish the songs to anywhere near what they sound like on record.  U2 have the choice to use additional musicians offstage, e.g Dallas Schoo on rhythm guitar, and sequencers or augment the basic band with additional musicians on stage.   U2 have decided long ago to only be a 4 piece band on stage with the exception of part of the Lovetown show and they are too set in their ways to change now.  Of course this means they are not strictly a 'live' band in the technical sense but hey who's complaining.  Fortunately U2 don't need to utilise a brass section since there are not many horns arrangements in their repertoire.   The Rolling Stones for instance have a fully augmented band on stage with them with up to 10 more players and backing singers and they sound great live also.  I think U2 made the right decision long ago to be an exclusive stage presence while not compromising their fantastic sound live in concert.     

but i do think U2 does try to keep their presence hidden within their songs at time.  and some songs can't be recreated the album way with bono's limited ability on guitar.  they could never do staring at the sun the real way and if they used some underneath it would be real obvious that someone else besides the band is playing acoustic guitar.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Venkman on July 25, 2009, 05:22:12 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
this is very disheartening to me.

Listen, dont worry too much about it. There is 4 of them on stage, technically a three piece with a singer who occasionally plays guitar etc.

The vast majority of times when U2 have additional sound or help is with samples and sequencers, like on the intro to "bad" or "City of bliding lights" (i doubt Adam actually plays that keyboard bit live, even though there is a keyboard there...)

They just use these to help keep some of the songs idenity, its the not the ingrediants, its the just icening on the cake...

They are a great live band,

Edge does control alot of the sequences and samples from his foot pedals, but when hes busy trying to perform, running round the stage, Dallas is underneath making sure he's got the right sound etc, and if edge is away from his board he can hit the distort on , or do his wah.....  It stops Edge be restricted to his area...

Same with Monitors, they all use in ear monitors so they can always hear themselves, if you are at a small venue gig you can be restricted to where the monitors are.... If you walk away from em, you cant hear your sound mix properly... In ear monitors aloows them to hear what they need so they can perform..

ts all logistics baby!
Rock and Roll on the big stage!

Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: markt on July 25, 2009, 02:53:59 PM
I do remember watching the "Zoo TV" TV special (Fox TV?), I think it was recorded in Giants Stadium.  The TV crew went down beneath the stage and there was a chap down there who looked like he was playing guitar live with the band via TV monitors.  Don't think it was Dallas.  Anyone remember this?  I think the song might have been UTEOW but I might be wrong, it's been years since I watched it.

Mark.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Vervefloyd on July 25, 2009, 04:25:27 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
this is very disheartening to me.

Listen, dont worry too much about it. There is 4 of them on stage, technically a three piece with a singer who occasionally plays guitar etc.

The vast majority of times when U2 have additional sound or help is with samples and sequencers, like on the intro to "bad" or "City of bliding lights" (i doubt Adam actually plays that keyboard bit live, even though there is a keyboard there...)

They just use these to help keep some of the songs idenity, its the not the ingrediants, its the just icening on the cake...

They are a great live band,

Edge does control alot of the sequences and samples from his foot pedals, but when hes busy trying to perform, running round the stage, Dallas is underneath making sure he's got the right sound etc, and if edge is away from his board he can hit the distort on , or do his wah.....  It stops Edge be restricted to his area...

Same with Monitors, they all use in ear monitors so they can always hear themselves, if you are at a small venue gig you can be restricted to where the monitors are.... If you walk away from em, you cant hear your sound mix properly... In ear monitors aloows them to hear what they need so they can perform..

ts all logistics baby!
Rock and Roll on the big stage!



i don't think the poster is disheartened though by some additional sequencers or samples because of course that makes sense that a crew of people work on that.  i think they are disheartened to hear that maybe there are even more things going on below then we even imagined.  i assumed much more was prerecorded, but now im starting to think they may have a full band done there adding everything which does bother me.  cause if you're gonna use them use to pull of songs that bono can't.  say staring at the sun full band the real way.  bring a guy on stage to do the acoustic part so edge can do the electric.  stuff like that.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 25, 2009, 05:42:05 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I do remember watching the "Zoo TV" TV special (Fox TV?), I think it was recorded in Giants Stadium.  The TV crew went down beneath the stage and there was a chap down there who looked like he was playing guitar live with the band via TV monitors.  Don't think it was Dallas.  Anyone remember this?  I think the song might have been UTEOW but I might be wrong, it's been years since I watched it.

Mark.


You are absolutely correct I saw this and it was at Yankee stadium.  A guy name unknown playing guitar.  Before that it had never occured to me that U2 were not entirely live on stage.  However it is impossible to play rock songs like 'The Fly' and others with only The Edge's lead guitar.  Who's playing the rhythm guitar, certainly not Bono who only cradles his guitar for some Elvis effect, prerecorded effects certainly can't mimick the rhythm.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Venkman on July 26, 2009, 06:03:41 AM

i don't think the poster is disheartened though by some additional sequencers or samples because of course that makes sense that a crew of people work on that.  i think they are disheartened to hear that maybe there are even more things going on below then we even imagined.  i assumed much more was prerecorded, but now im starting to think they may have a full band done there adding everything which does bother me.  cause if you're gonna use them use to pull of songs that bono can't.  say staring at the sun full band the real way.  bring a guy on stage to do the acoustic part so edge can do the electric.  stuff like that.
[/quote]


They have never done a studio version of staring at the sun as far as I can remember, its always been acoustic which Bono does play on, He also does play on the fly but its quite low in the mix....

All the reason they have guys under the stage is like I said from my previous post, they are not playing the songs, they just allowing the band to perform and if a live keyboard from under the stage works better than a sample then they will go with that... When you go to the funfair and you go on the merry-go-round and its all lights and fun etc, you dont wanna look at the gears behind, or under the Merry-go-round, showing all the cogs turning etc, It ruins the allure..

Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: u2pinstripes on July 26, 2009, 07:56:52 AM
Bono actually does play more than I thought.  If you watch Desire on the Popmart DVD, Bono plays solo at the beginning of the song and he plays perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJZBnTFRb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJZBnTFRb4)

Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 26, 2009, 04:45:57 PM
Bono definitely can play, but he seems to get distracted by singing.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: markreed on July 27, 2009, 07:21:31 AM
The band have used triggered loops and have been using sequencers since the 1984 tour : even then, the sequencers required some element of manual control beause of the varying lengths and endings (specifically "Bad" that varied in length from 7 to 17 minutes dependent on the show) - and it does make sense to have someone offstage managing this alongside Edge - who has his hands full, himself. Dallas does some work sonically, but isn't this controlling the effects and delay? I don't see a problem with someone offstage having some input into the sound, but this isn't the same type of job as being an extra musician, but assisting the pre-recorded / sequenced stuff doing it's job. I've seen extra musicians play guitar side-stage all the time : normally they are tuning the guitar for the next song as whatever they play doesn't look or sound part of the song.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 27, 2009, 03:29:08 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The band have used triggered loops and have been using sequencers since the 1984 tour : even then, the sequencers required some element of manual control beause of the varying lengths and endings (specifically "Bad" that varied in length from 7 to 17 minutes dependent on the show) - and it does make sense to have someone offstage managing this alongside Edge - who has his hands full, himself. Dallas does some work sonically, but isn't this controlling the effects and delay? I don't see a problem with someone offstage having some input into the sound, but this isn't the same type of job as being an extra musician, but assisting the pre-recorded / sequenced stuff doing it's job. I've seen extra musicians play guitar side-stage all the time : normally they are tuning the guitar for the next song as whatever they play doesn't look or sound part of the song.

Who is playing the rhythm guitar when The Edge is playing a lead solo?  Can someone please illuminate?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: markreed on July 27, 2009, 03:36:30 PM
I can't speak for Edge, but I know that The Smiths - similarly a four piece - used a looped sample of one guitar part that was foot-triggered whilst the then sole guitarist performed lead over his own playing. I can't see why they would have someone who can't see them perform live and potentially err when they could get Edge to simply perform the tracks and use a 'perfect' reliable take everytime.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 27, 2009, 03:58:43 PM
This is all very worrying for a traditional live music lover.  Maybe Bono is just miming every night over a pre recorded vocal like Britney and MJ.  This is very disturbing to even think about.  Maybe the entire Rhythm section is on a loop.  It bears thinking about.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Venkman on July 29, 2009, 08:40:42 AM
Who is playing the rhythm guitar when The Edge is playing a lead solo?  Can someone please illuminate?
[/quote]

On albums... Edge is. Double tracked guitars. Standard recording Process.

Live. No one. I cant really think of one solo were there is a rhythm guitar part underneath thats not played by Bono.. Mostly they dont have a rhythm part. edge's solos are normally drenched in delays and other effects and it dosent really need much accompanyment. They normally crank up the Bass..
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Tumbling Dice on July 29, 2009, 03:08:21 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Who is playing the rhythm guitar when The Edge is playing a lead solo?  Can someone please illuminate?

On albums... Edge is. Double tracked guitars. Standard recording Process.

Live. No one. I cant really think of one solo were there is a rhythm guitar part underneath thats not played by Bono.. Mostly they dont have a rhythm part. edge's solos are normally drenched in delays and other effects and it dosent really need much accompanyment. They normally crank up the Bass..
[/quote]

When I think of other artists live shows e.g The Rolling Stones and Prince, they always have a rhythm guitar keeping the riffs going with lead weaving in and out of the fabric of sound.  But then they also have more live guitarists on stage.  Anyway thanks for your explanation since I'm not a technically minded musician.  I would love to ask The Edge though.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: capthowdy on July 29, 2009, 04:16:13 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bono actually does play more than I thought.  If you watch Desire on the Popmart DVD, Bono plays solo at the beginning of the song and he plays perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJZBnTFRb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJZBnTFRb4)



+1

he definitely plays on the fly from sidney with that gibson 135(?).  He's also playing the acoustic at the end of kite, i think, on the slane dvd.  It could be that it's been dubbed for the soundtrack but I'm a player and it looks and sounds like he's playing and that he knows what he's doing and he should, he's been playing since before the UF.  Flanagan's book also mentions him going off to practice and sounding edgesque.

They def fatten up their sound with hired hands, certainly on the keyboard parts but i reckon they stay hidden because for years u2 played live as a four piece before they really started using loops on UF.  Thats maybe what they think people expect to see.  The point was made as well when adam didn't make the first sidney zoo show.  Edge suggested that he play bass and dallas play the 6 stringer.  It was vetoed because the rest reckon that people expect to see edge playing, not anyone else (go sturopa;)
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 29, 2009, 04:30:04 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
When I think of other artists live shows e.g The Rolling Stones and Prince, they always have a rhythm guitar keeping the riffs going with lead weaving in and out of the fabric of sound.  But then they also have more live guitarists on stage.  Anyway thanks for your explanation since I'm not a technically minded musician.  I would love to ask The Edge though.

Most other artists do, but Edge makes a big enough sound to get by on solos on his own most of the time.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Venkman on July 30, 2009, 11:00:21 AM
When I think of other artists live shows e.g The Rolling Stones and Prince, they always have a rhythm guitar keeping the riffs going with lead weaving in and out of the fabric of sound.  But then they also have more live guitarists on stage.  Anyway thanks for your explanation since I'm not a technically minded musician.  I would love to ask The Edge though.
[/quote]


No probs.. Rolling stones and Prince are very different in sound. Both Great live acts...

 Rolling stones is Classic Rock, Clean sounding guitars with a bit of "Grit" which when one of em goes off to do a solo they kind of need that rock/rhythm and blues backing or it will sound empty and naked....and then Prince is quite tight and funky sounding with big guitar meltdowns....and they have tons of arrangment...

Edge's guitar playing normally has on delay and its almost like having another rhythm section on top of their already solid rythm section of Adam and Larry.... The delay or repeats on edges guitar fill out the sound and there fore it dosent sound empty..
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: hurricane hugo on July 30, 2009, 11:38:00 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I can't speak for Edge, but I know that The Smiths - similarly a four piece - used a looped sample of one guitar part that was foot-triggered whilst the then sole guitarist performed lead over his own playing. I can't see why they would have someone who can't see them perform live and potentially err when they could get Edge to simply perform the tracks and use a 'perfect' reliable take everytime.

the Smiths broke down and hired a 2nd guitarist for their final tour.

#@!
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Vertigo23 on July 31, 2009, 03:22:35 PM
Similar to Bad, a backing sequencer or whatever it's called, are used on With or Without You and Beautiful Day, that I can think of.

Question to all the musical people on here (I'm musical myself but don't know the answer): on With or Without You's backing drum track -- which plays until Larry kicks at the "yeah you..." part -- is that an actual recorded thing, or is it someone playing below stage? Maybe his drum tech Sam O'Sullivan?
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: Nlee on July 31, 2009, 07:44:24 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Similar to Bad, a backing sequencer or whatever it's called, are used on With or Without You and Beautiful Day, that I can think of.

Question to all the musical people on here (I'm musical myself but don't know the answer): on With or Without You's backing drum track -- which plays until Larry kicks at the "yeah you..." part -- is that an actual recorded thing, or is it someone playing below stage? Maybe his drum tech Sam O'Sullivan?

I'm quite sure it'll be a prerecorded track, or a loop.

-Nick
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: mbeano on July 31, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
Taken from
Will U2 be the saviours of the music industry?
The Independent, February 20, 2009
By: Andy Gill
http://www.atu2.com/news/will-u2-be-the-saviours-of-the-music-industry.html

"Since the Morocco sessions, the six men (and Terry Lawless, whose keyboards feature on the majority of the tracks) have tinkered for a year and a half with the resulting tracks, in round after round of gruelling perfectionism. If they didn't own their own studios, the fees would probably have bankrupted them."




What's on 'Horizon' for Lawless
Santa Maria Times, March 24, 2009
By: Julian J. Ramos
http://www.atu2.com/news/whats-on-horizon-for-lawless.html
 
Just days ago, Terry Lawless was on stage in New York City playing keyboard for U2, one of the world's biggest rock bands.
And the Santa Maria man will soon begin rehearsals for U2's world tour that begins in June -- Lawless' third with the band.
"It's like a circus," he said of the huge concert sets that take days to assemble, and the long hours of checking and rechecking equipment.
During their 2009 stadium tour that kicks off in Barcelona, Spain, U2 will perform songs from their new album, No Line on the Horizon, while on a 360-degree stage.

Lawless traveled the world with the band for both the "Elevation" and "Vertigo" tours. His reputation as a renowned keyboardist is what caught the attention of the band, who recruited him into their ranks.

Before jetting off for the "Horizon" tour, Lawless is home in Santa Maria preparing to play with local musicians into April, including at the Santa Barbara County Vintners Festival. When he's not touring, Lawless enjoys playing with local bands or individual musicians.

'On the horizon'
During the first week of March, U2 performed on the Late Show with David Letterman five times in one week and once on Good Morning America in support of No Line on the Horizon. Released in February, the album is the band's 12th. Lawless performs on the lead single "Get on Your Boots" and other songs.

Late Show appearances are "always a great time," the keyboardist said. ...

From his back yard studio, Lawless writes music for radio and TV commercials, and movies. He also produces music for others using a soundproof, live recording room and state-of-the-art computer recording and sound equipment. In his career, Lawless has worked with some of the most well-known artists and bands in the world. The long list includes Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, Cher, Phil Collins, Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul, Don Henley, David Bowie, the Doobie Brother and Hanson.

Lawless can play all wind instruments, keyboards and guitar, and is a master at the Hammond organ -- a staple of rhythm and blues music.

Lawless said he is blessed with exceptional ears and the ability to transcribe music, such as chord changes, to paper in one take.

"I have golden, world-class ears," he said.

Jim Heintz, founder and lead developer for software company Way Out Ware of Pismo Beach, said Lawless is a keyboard legend and a "go-to guy" in the music business.

During a U2 concert, Lawless draws upon his 30-year background to run extra sound effects that are used to make the live music sound exactly like what is on the album. With the rise of digital music and the proliferation of free file-sharing Web sites, the importance of live shows is more important than ever, he said.

...

Lawless also works on writing music with David Rackley, a local music teacher, in his back yard studio. The walls of the 750-square-foot studio are decorated with sheet music and photos -- each with a story. Some of the photos are from his travels around the world with U2, including one that shows a donkey in Fes, Morocco, strapped with crates of Coca-Cola bottles on its sides that he described as a "delivery truck."

Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: aarong on January 11, 2011, 02:26:12 AM
The keyboard tracks for the intros of the lieks of Bad and Streets are pre recorded sequences, and the likes of Dallas standing od stage tunbing a guitar is not to be mixed up with an "additional musician playing". I was in wth Derik Nealson with my dad getting a repair job on a few basses we have at home. Derik does all the repair work on the guitars and basses basically from the start, and he explained to us that Dallas often times suring the live gigs does edges pedal work if edge wonders off the main stage (as he does) and that there are often switch pedals to change/start/finish most pre-recorded sounds - e.g. into to Mysterous Ways. We were told that apart from Dallas doing Edges pedals for him if Edge physically cant get to the pedals, if there's additional musicians required, they'd be on stage with U2. Everything else is pre-recorded.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: satellitedog01 on January 11, 2011, 06:47:39 AM
I think hiring Lawless is a strange choice. Having a name session player off-stage, triggering sequences and sounds that probably any tech  could do (and these people are usually very accomplished players themselves), and playing the minimal stuff that could be played by any decent keyboard player who doesn't need to be mentioned is overkill to me.
On the other hand they have a highly sophisticated and precise clockwork like workflow with the instrument techs who are there every second of the show, triggering effects and knowing the tunes inside out, who are invisible and unknown to most crowd members.

I guess with todays technology it would be very feasible to play mostly precise renditions of album tracks (not that it's a thing I want) with one or two people off stage, including programming Edge's guitar effects. Small bands do this, U2 tribute bands do this (prerecorded backing tracks with surprisingly good results)
This tribute band has recently split, but check out how close they get to the originals (minus voice) with a minimal setup:

City
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcoalitZg60&feature=related
Mofo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCyXtC4Zj0&feature=related
Boots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1AA8oHlm2k&feature=related
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: K2 on January 12, 2011, 10:43:12 AM
I don't know if there is an occasional guitar player under the stage, but I doubt it is much of an issue. The band beneath the stage is freely acknowledged as being "TerryWorld" - Terry Lawless.

I loved it when Bono called out "Terry Lawless...in the Underworld!" on Unknown Caller. The camera appeared to sink through the stage revealing Terry and then zooming in on his hands. I saw this happen in Norman OK, and it's on the Rose Bowl DVD.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/katconlin/5349575952 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/katconlin/5349575952)
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: JTBaby on January 14, 2011, 07:20:47 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Just listening to the podcast All Songs Considered (NPR), wrap up show of South by Southwest. 

While discussing performances enhanced by prerecorded music, Carrie Brownstein made the assertion that U2 had a whole band under the stage and she preferred prerecorded extra music to this.

I know that U2 have used a least a keyboardist and may have, many years passed, may have used more than that, and that they also use triggered loops.  But is she correct, do they really have a 'another band beneath the stage"?

All recent DVD's have credits for one Additional Musician, Terry Lawless (http://www.terrylawless.com/resume.html). I do not think other people are involved, as TL is also a MIDI programmer, so he can actually play multiple parts at the same time.
I've never really understood why they do not put Terry on stage, as it is common for bands to have additional personel live.






Hmm... Why would they do that?

Respect ?

Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: satellitedog01 on January 15, 2011, 09:28:53 AM
Well they only occasionally introduced the other crew members in concert (was that respectlessness or generosity?), and Lawless is a hired gun, just like the others, although he is a more well known musician.
As I wrote I find it hard to understand why they needed someone with a name in the business, who is not needed playing virtuoso solos and complicated accompaniment to songs. If that was the case, I'd be happy to see a pro player doing his best...
Computers could quite possibly controll the backing tracks today... I don't mind them hiring TL, but it seems like overkill.

U2 as technically mediocre musicians, were dependent on their strength as the 4 man band doing what only they can, so admitting to having other musicians (not just backing tracks) off-stage seems like a questionable move.
 
I'm not against having musicians even on stage, if they serve a purpose not manageable by the regular crew/computers.
Title: Re: "Band beneath the stage"
Post by: goldtoad on January 15, 2011, 09:46:18 AM
I always wondered who was playing the keyboard parts... Thanks to those who posted the info on Terry Lawless. 
There is nothing wrong with this, however they should thank Terry and Dallas at each show.